General Music Chat

I've always liked the instrumentals of Cradle of Filth, but I could never get used to the vocalist. Something about him just didn't sit right with me

I've always liked the instrumentals of Cradle of Filth, but I could never get used to the vocalist. Something about him just didn't sit right with me

hahaha yea its like a hissing sound. i had a buddy when i like 15 that loooved cof. it was like the only thing he listened to so ive heard a lot.

Never heard of them (Cradle of Filth) before; just hit YouTube... Ugh. The chick singing = A. Guy vomiting vocals = F.

Within Temptation started out like that, with all the goth vomit vocals mixed with their female lead singer's vocals, then figured out that Sharon was the best and most marketable part of their band.

If a guy's gonna "sing" I wish more of them would actually sing like Roy Khan from Kamelot.

Never heard of them (Cradle of Filth) before; just hit YouTube... Ugh. The chick singing = A. Guy vomiting vocals = F.

Within Temptation started out like that, with all the goth vomit vocals mixed with their female lead singer's vocals, then figured out that Sharon was the best and most marketable part of their band.

If a guy's gonna "sing" I wish more of them would actually sing like Roy Khan from Kamelot.

hahahaha vomit vocals, ive never heard that, thats a good way of describing the sound

People like CraigMaxim assume that just because I listen to Death Metal (which he calls "Screamo" just because it has metal "screaming" vocals), that that's ALL I listen to. So I get hated a lot.

I don't hate you. And I'm not hating ON you.

I never said, nor assumed that you had no other musical interests. My point is that SCREAMO which, for me, is any rock music that has predominantly screaming, for vocals, is a VERY LIMITED genre.

I don't deny that it requires skill.

I also don't deny that you are top notch at it.

But again, it is a "one trick pony" and as such, like anything else, gets boring after awhile with no real diversity.

Most of the time you can't even understand the lyrics, so what is the point of HAVING lyrics?

Teenagers get ANGRY, because they grow up from a weak position. Adults are bigger and stronger and more clever and have the power, and are not always fair with the power they wield. Kids are trying to figure out who they are, they push their boundaries, DEMANDING their desire to control their own lives, they are learning to take a stand, but they are still young, and so just rebel to rebel. Not always because they have a worhthwhile issue or cause.

And all this uncertainty, and anger over mistreatment through childhood, both real and perceived, causes alot of ANGER!

This anger is natural and understandable. But it is also supposed to be a passing phase. Not a damn lifestyle!

Your chosen genre, has in effect now, GLORIFIED and LEGITIMIZED continual and incessant anger as a MUSICAL FORM supposedly worthy of respect. Now rather than being just a passing phase, you get to take this "music" with you, into adulthood, and STAY ANGRY without getting over it, and growing up and assuming control over your life. Screaming angrily is NOT control, but usually, a LACK OF CONTROL.

So, rather than just being a blight on real MUSIC (already bad enough) screamo is also a threat to CIVILITY and MATURITY! It helps neuter CREATIVITY, OPEN MINDEDNESS, COMPASSION, FORGIVENESS, JOY.

It glorifies SCREAMING, which is in essense, glorifying ANGER.

It especially bothers me then, that YOU are choosing this field, even though you are good at it, because YOU, young man, are a professing Christian. And you conveniently chose NOT to answer my previous question about what being a follower of Christ means to you, and what qualities Christ' possessed and a Christian should emulate, and which qualities most represents Christ's teaching.

And I suspect you did so for a reason.

Because YOU KNOW, as well as I do, and as well as non-Christians do, that Jesus' central message was LOVE and FORGIVENESS.

And belonging to a genre that promotes ANGER, and no other emotion, cannot be very compatible with a RELIGION or TEACHING that promotes LOVE and FORGIVENESS.

You can SCREAM the Sermon on the Mount, and it will still be ANGER. You can scream the lyrics to "I just called to say I love you" and it will just be ANGER. The message is LOST, unless the message is ANGER and nothing else.

Is that your message?

Is that Christ's message?

Sucks to actually think things through doesn't it?

I think you will find a way to justify it all though, but it won't be because of your love for God, it would be because you love attention, the hope of fame, and glorification of yourself by others. Because spreading anger does NO SERVICE to the cause of Christ, no matter how you spin it for yourself, so you can get away with it, in your conscience.

But show me that I am wrong, if I am.

I will consider thoughtfully anything you offer in support of it.

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People like CraigMaxim assume that just because I listen to Death Metal (which he calls "Screamo" just because it has metal "screaming" vocals), that that's ALL I listen to. So I get hated a lot.

I don't hate you. And I'm not hating ON you.

I never said, nor assumed that you had no other musical interests. My point is that SCREAMO which, for me, is any rock music that has predominantly screaming, for vocals, is a VERY LIMITED genre.

I don't deny that it requires skill.

I also don't deny that you are top notch at it.

But again, it is a "one trick pony" and as such, like anything else, gets boring after awhile with no real diversity.

Most of the time you can't even understand the lyrics, so what is the point of HAVING lyrics?

Teenagers get ANGRY, because they grow up from a weak position. Adults are bigger and stronger and more clever and have the power, and are not always fair with the power they wield. Kids are trying to figure out who they are, they push their boundaries, DEMANDING their desire to control their own lives, they are learning to take a stand, but they are still young, and so just rebel to rebel. Not always because they have a worhthwhile issue or cause.

And all this uncertainty, and anger over mistreatment through childhood, both real and perceived, causes alot of ANGER!

This anger is natural and understandable. But it is also supposed to be a passing phase. Not a damn lifestyle!

Your chosen genre, has in effect now, GLORIFIED and LEGITIMIZED continual and incessant anger as a MUSICAL FORM supposedly worthy of respect. Now rather than being just a passing phase, you get to take this "music" with you, into adulthood, and STAY ANGRY without getting over it, and growing up and assuming control over your life. Screaming angrily is NOT control, but usually, a LACK OF CONTROL.

So, rather than just being a blight on real MUSIC (already bad enough) screamo is also a threat to CIVILITY and MATURITY! It helps neuter CREATIVITY, OPEN MINDEDNESS, COMPASSION, FORGIVENESS, JOY.

It glorifies SCREAMING, which is in essense, glorifying ANGER.

It especially bothers me then, that YOU are choosing this field, even though you are good at it, because YOU, young man, are a professing Christian. And you conveniently chose NOT to answer my previous question about what being a follower of Christ means to you, and what qualities Christ' possessed and a Christian should emulate, and which qualities most represents Christ's teaching.

And I suspect you did so for a reason.

Because YOU KNOW, as well as I do, and as well as non-Christians do, that Jesus' central message was LOVE and FORGIVENESS.

And belonging to a genre that promotes ANGER, and no other emotion, cannot be very compatible with a RELIGION or TEACHING that promotes LOVE and FORGIVENESS.

You can SCREAM the Sermon on the Mount, and it will still be ANGER. You can scream the lyrics to "I just called to say I love you" and it will just be ANGER. The message is LOST, unless the message is ANGER and nothing else.

Is that your message?

Is that Christ's message?

Sucks to actually think things through doesn't it?

I think you will find a way to justify it all though, but that is not because you love God, it would be because you love attention, the hope of fame, and glorification of yourself by others. Because spreading anger does NO SERVICE to the cause of Christ, no matter how you spin it for yourself, so you can get away with it, in your conscience.

But show me that I am wrong, if I am.

I will consider thoughtfully anything you offer in support of it.

.

But you're wrong about all Metal with screaming vocals being ALL angry. Yes, I admit, a lot of it is. But also, a lot of it has a good message, or a message of love. Any Christian metal band for example...Bands like As I Lay Dying, August Burns Red, Demon Hunter, and other Christian bands like them have deep, meaningful lyrics, and they worship God through their music. I saw TDWP (Christian Metalcore band) live last year, and after their set, they invited people to come backstage and ask them about Christ, and how they can be saved.

Another example is Killswitch Engage. They kick butt, but in reality, they're LOVE songs!

Then there are bands like The Black Dahlia Murder, who use dark fantasy stories or actual events that took place for their lyrics. They're not angry; they may be violent and dark, but it tells a story.

I can understand how you could think that all metal is angry, because, yes it does SOUND that way a lot...But people who take the time to learn the purpose, and learn what drives the individual musicians, know that it's not all "KILL KILL KILL DIE DIE DIE".

Bands like Whitechapel and Cannibal Corpse, yes, their lyrics are mostly about mindless violence and anger. But that's why I focus on the music, and don't let the lyrics affect my life.

So to say that all music of a certain genre is all one emotion is just ridiculous. That's like when someone stands up and says that all Country music is about sadness and depression. It's not true.

It all depends on the artist, not the genre.

You should write a book Phil.
Phil's History of Music, Part One.
Perhaps you could do a Mel Brooks type movie too.

So to say that all music of a certain genre is all one emotion is just ridiculous.

Screaming conveys anger. It doesn't matter what the lyrics are, or what the music is doing underneath, for that matter. That kind of screaming, is done only for anger, no other reason. We can scream for joy, or scream in pain, but those are very different screams. The kind of screaming done by screamo "singers" is the timber and tone and intensity and whatever other description, that ANGER is.

It conveys anger. Period.

So my statement is NOT ridiculous.

What "IS" ridiculous, is thinking that we can change MILLIONS OF YEARS of emotion, and how they affect our psyche, by using different words (substituting love words for hate words) in place of the normal ones that come out when we scream like that.

For example...

A guy punches his date in the face, and explains that this is HIS way of expressing love. Maybe he gets lucky and finds a freak that wants to be beaten up, but we all would accept that they were BOTH in need of mental health counseling. He can "explain" what he really intends by his actions, but who's buying it? Not 99% of normal society. We will not accept that he has "revised" love in that way, and buy into it.

Or....

Have you tried screaming (like when you perform) to your girlfriend, telling her how much you love her, and what she means to you? Would you do that when you were proposing marriage? If not, consider, that most people would find nothing contradictory about SINGING, a beautiful and thoughtful melody to their love interest while proposing. Why? Because the emotion of singing melodically is compatible with love, whereas screaming at someone is not.

I don't have this "compatibility" argument against just screamo performers either!

You know the ministers that preach like this...

"And my friend-uh - I'm here to tell you-uh - that you need something-uh - something not found-uh - in earthly pleasures-uh..."

You know the style I mean right?

I can't stand that fake bullsh*t. I always think... "Those guys aren't at home telling their wives..."

"Now darlin-uh, I need you to pass me that butter-uh, and boy did those pork chops look good-uh, and I love those peas-uh and that muffin-uh!"

If you aren't talking like that at home, why are you doing it in church? Cause you are PERFORMING, that's why. You are ENTERTAINING. And it is also, believe it or not, a subtle form of hypnosis, which is why it transfixes the people listening, and to the preacher's mind, seems to work in keeping their attention.

BUT IT'S FAKE!!!!

IT'S UNNATURAL!!!

Similarly, if you were to SCREAM (like when you perform) to your girlfriend, while you are proposing marriage, would that seem natural to you? Do you think it would have the same effect on her heart, as if you were thoughtful, and got down on one knee, showing gratitude for her and respect for her?

Of course it wouldn't. It contradicts with what our psyche's tell us, is loving, and forgiving and kind. Now, someone could assert that ANGRY SCREAMING really "IS" an appropriate expression of love, but it is not going to fly.

Do you know that watching a very sad movie, and someone laughs when everyone else is crying, and this person regularly does this, would be a sign to psychologists that something was wrong with them mentally? Because their response is not appropriate. It shows that something is wrong. The emotion of empathy may not be present. They may be unconsciously AVOIDING pain, and therefore REFUSING to feel the pain, expressed during the movie, or whatever. But it betrays that something is wrong, and could be a sign of mental illness.

Humans the world over have a shared understanding and experience of emotion. That is why, we can go to China, and hear an opera singer singing a sad song, and WE KNOW it is a sad song, not even understanding the language. This is possible because the emotion of sadness is universal and consistent. We know sadness when we hear it. Even without understanding the LANGUAGE.

Emotion is more central and universal to us, than language is. Think about how powerful that is, and how powerfully ENTRENCHED into our psyche's that is!

Screaming conveys ANGER.

It is UNIVERSALLY understood to be angry. You can build a complex or artistic revamping of reality around it, but you will not change MILLIONS OF YEARS of that emotion, and how it affects us.

Calling it something else, does not work EMOTIONALLY, and in our deepest and most primitive psyche's where it is MOST REAL to us.

You cannot successfully express love and forgiveness through angry screaming. It is unnatural and against our every instinct, both emotionally and psychologically.

.

Well you're set in your ways and refuse to understand, so I give up. lol

I gave you proof, and you ignored it. Just think about this...I PERFORM THIS STYLE! I think I know what emotion I feel when I record. When I'm recording, there's no anger. I actually have fun with it, and joke around. If you've seen any of my videos, you'll see that I like to jump around, do crazy stuff, and play jokes. There's not a drop of anger there.

So don't tell me how I feel, or how music makes ME feel. You may feel anger from METAL, but I don't. People have differences...Accept it and stop arguing.

I understand Ryan

Shoutin Gods praise till our lungs bleed is the bands motto.
No we dont "scream" much. But we can make a loud noise unto the Lord just the same.

So don't tell me how I feel, or how music makes ME feel. You may feel anger from METAL, but I don't. People have differences...Accept it and stop arguing.

Certain emotions and responses to them psychologically, are universal Ryan. If you take psychology at all in college, you'll learn about it.

But if you like...

Give me the URL to any video, where you convey any emotion besides anger, that you feel would be obvious to the average viewer, that you are expressing love, or joy, peace etc...

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Here's my cover of a song by the Christian band, As I Lay Dying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63zP0emf9ns

Lyrics:

For so long I
Have felt alone
Content to live with unrest
Longing faded into countless
Nights that buried my
Weary heart
You brought an end
To this dead hour
And meaning to
A calloused life

Held in Your arms
But too far from my heart
(2x)

These thoughts will carry me
Through the darkest nights
While your eyes rest in...
These thoughts will carry me
Through the darkest nights
While your eyes rest in mine

I remember the way you looked
At me not the way you drew
Drew in me
With one deep sigh
Scattering pieces of my
My restless mind
Forgetting all that we

We have left behind (4x)

These thoughts will carry me
Through the darkest nights
While your eyes rest in...
(4x)

Here's my cover of a song by the Christian band, August Burns Red:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrAPprn8hGg

Lyrics:

Convictions to the back burner.
Remembering what's really important isn't so important after all.
Gather all your possessions, and smile because you've got it all.
Still that empty feeling won't go away.
Your puzzle's missing one very essential piece,
And I know you'll keep looking in all the wrong places until it's too late.
Slip on the ice again.
When did you become so cold?
Living for the here and now never made so much sense.
You think you've got all the time in the world, but this could all be ending now.
How far down will you go before it's too late?
Slipping on the ice again, you've become so cold.
Lucky for you rock bottom is in sight.
Your wake up call is set for now,
And the trail you have followed has come all the way to the end.
I hope you survive the crash.

Here' my cover of a song by the Christian Death Metal band, Impending Doom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYs3I_zSk8g

Lyrics:

To the following Christians listen closely.
We bring our light to a new realm, a realm you dare not enter,
Passing judgment behind stone walls, behind your absence of understanding.
We will crush your walls that dictate where our ministry goes,
Don't you ever tell me I'm using God as a gimmick.
I'm not a heretic, I'm not a hypocrite;
Those insults make me sick from the ones I have fellowship with.
We aren't doing this for our own, but for one name holy and alone.
These venues are our church,
We are the gospel in the darkness, and this is our exaltation.
We are the gospel in the darkness; we bring our light to a new realm,
A realm you dare not enter, passing judgment behind stone walls,
Behind your absence of understanding.
Are you listening!!!
We'll crush the walls that dictate where our ministry goes,
This is our church, this is our worship, GORSHIP!

Here's covers of 2 songs by the Christian band, TDWP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPIXZqxDZP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQgZOA06rTI

Lyrics:

Goats on a Boat

Whatever happened to the integrity found within a family?
I return your glare, and my bones are chilled with some sort of sickening recipe of fear and anger.
Day by day, time after time again, you distort chronology, you foster of terror.
Bury your diamonds, destroy your rubies.
We are searching for security in tradegy.
take a Look around and notice the black (tapestries) drowning (our walls of) simplicity.
We are the constant decay.
Each note will disintegrate.
Perched upon our towers, motionless and miserable.
Here's to a comfortable casket.
How deceiving is the cemetery of motivation.
I wish to write a conclusion.

Danger: Wildman

I KNOW A GHOST,
And when doubted his truth reveals incredible vengeance.
Vanity is a sepulcher,
Do as you please, shame will follow.
Languages rot and insects lose interest,
Mountains of plastic: Melting away.
As long as these struggles are aimless,
We will all be standing still.
When worded correctly, truth is never a cliché;
This is because so many are attached to their deaf ears.
Collect the leaves,
Count them,
Name them,
Study each and every single one of them.
As long as these struggles are aimless,
We will all be standing still.
When worded correctly, truth is never a cliché;
This is because so many are attached to their deaf ears.
All mistakes can be marked by borders,
All of love can be traced to a maker.
It seems as if what is most important,
Isn't noticed when forgotten.
Do as you please, shame will follow.
The sun and the moon,
You'll always take them for granted.
What's delicate is lost.
As the selfish forgot what is sacred,
The humble forget themselves.
When worded correctly, truth is never a cliché;
This is because so many are attached to their deaf ears.

God man these are some incredible ,great lyrics ,and the music is killing them ,you are kidding right. I know you don't want to be mainstream but Carley Simon couldnt write this better. I Just learned how to modernize thanx man.
As I lay dieing is incredible. Held you in my arms but 2 far from my heart.. WOW, Say it again WOW.

God man these are some incredible ,great lyrics ,and the music is killing them ,you are kidding right. I know you don't want to be mainstream but Carley Simon couldnt write this better. I Just learned how to modernize thanx man.
As I lay dieing is incredible. Held you in my arms but 2 far from my heart.. WOW, Say it again WOW.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic

As I lay dying cover...

Even when you try and smile at the right places, there is no real sense of joy, or thankfulness as the words convey on...

"You brought an end
To this dead hour
And meaning to
A calloused life"


Your life doesn't seem filled with meaning on that part... you look tortured and angry... except for the smile you try and throw in there.

And you are shaking your head like a zombie.

Scary, but not "meaningful"

And not surprisingly, you just won't answer my simple questions...

Would you find it appropriately romantic, to SCREAM (as in your performances) to your girlfriend when asking her to marry you?

I could sing to a girl and ask her to marry me, and she would run around the office telling her co-workers how romantic it was (In fact, this really happened! )

But do you think SCREAMING would have the same effect as that?

There's no way you do, and you likely realize that this defeats your argument, but that would mean you have some decisions to make.

Do you think rubbing feces on someone's face is romantic foreplay?

Some people do.

But they are demented, and mentally off.

Some things are just not compatible Ryan.

Christ message is important enough to be understood EVERY TIME and in EVERY WAY it is shared. Screaming unintelligibly is not condusive to that. Screaming expresses anger. Period. It is not condusive to feelings other than anger. It is an improper marriage. Like spitting at your wife, then telling her, you love her.

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