General Music Chat

Irminsul,

I disgree with every point you have made and consider them conjecture and personal opinion.

The only one I will even debate with you further is this comment:

As far as Christianity and war....you are purposely miscontruing that passage from Matthew as an excuse or approval of war. It is in fact saying that war is an unfortunate human priclivity...but then again so is "sin" if one is a Christian. And they don't usually try to excuse the continued perpetuation of that act, do they?

How dare you say that? The passage says what it says, not your interpretation of what it says. I don't want war. I want peace. I don't use that passage to justify anything. But the Lord said there will be wars and the rumors of wars. So IF you believe in HIS word War is inevitable whether you want it or not and there is nothing you or anyone can say or do to prevent it.

Clarification - I am not Christian. But having studied various Christian texts, in context with the real history surrounding them, I can tell you that if you rely on the KJV (King James Version) of the Bible as the "word of the Lord" I believe you to be sadly mistaken. The KJV is a 15th century RE-interpretation of the already interpreted-to-death Pentateuch of the Old Testament and some highly dubious translations of the New Testament. So, don't wrangle with me on that note. You'll lose.

American Christianity tends to use the KJV to spin current political beliefs largely centered on conservative to very rightwing American politics. This is an abhorrent thing to do to the text of honest, good hearted Christians and an intellectually dishonest trick of the rightwing fundamentalists in this nation.

Know what the difference is, at heart, between AlQaeda and Army of God?

Not a blessed thing.

Your not a Christian? What was my first clue.

Don't wrangle with me, you'll lose? That is a rather arrogant statement to make.

So you have studied Christian texts huh? Which ones? There is only one, the bible. Which you don't mention studying. Try it. You may be "enlightend".

I would also like to know "the real" history you speak of or do you mean "your history" so it fits "your agenda" kinda like KJV has been twisted to serve "a right wing agenda".

Please stop, you are as transparent as glass. Which was my MO all along. Thanks for walking into it.

Lastly, it is customary to say thank you when some one pays you a compliment, like when I said your music is really good. I wasn't expecting it for the aforementioned reasons.

You may respond however you like. I give you the last word. This will be the last time I address you.

If you seriously believe that the KJV Bible is the first last and only text of religious importance to Christians....disregarding the Gospels of Thomas, Judas, Mary, the Nag Hammadi writings, the original early Greek texts from which the original New Testament is pulled, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the several letters of Paul etc etc etc....then you are truly more ignorant of your own faith than I had previously thought.

So who actually walked into the glass? How are them shards tasting?

Isn't it just wrong that I....a non Christian.....would know this stuff that you SHOULD?

Those are Gnostic texts not Christian my friend.

http://www.gnosis.org/

Nice try.

I had given you the last word as I will again but I can't let something that deceptive go.

I sincerely apologize to everyone else on the board with this discussion. But if some one is going to attack me, and my faith with blatant lies, I can not allow that to go unchallenged.

There ya go breakin' promises again... you promised you wouldn't address me anymore and then you did, now you promised to give up the last word but you couldn't... my heart will never trust again.

"Your not a Christian? What was my first clue. " almost sounds as if you are passing judgement here... I'd be careful.

"I sincerely apologize to everyone else on the board" - why say it when you know dangol well you don't mean it.

seems like a reoccuring tactic of yours is tho say you are walking away once it's clear you have lost... hiding from the rebuttles you know have bested you... and returning later to interject... just an observation I have made.

just for my own clarity is this part of nice reasonable conversation you and irminsul where gonna have... tell me again about how he doesn't throw insults at you and how you return the favor... that was my fav part.


Thank you for "keepin the fire burnin' tho".

You do realize the New Testament was completely rewritten over and over again to conform to the ancient myths of the societies in which the texts were being translated into? The virgin birth, the miracles, this was all a bunch of leftover junk they threw in from their own superstitious nonsense pre-existing Christ. The guy who wrote Revelations was a nut monk who lived off on some Greek island.

The reason the Bible contradicts itself and jumps all over the place is it was edited by politicians to serve their interest in keeping the population docile and in fear. They must turn to the state for salvation.

Thus all the real information about Jesus, his brothers and his wife Mary was totally suppressed. This tomb of Jesus they just discovered confirms all this, but of course, it's so embarrassing to phony "Christians" they try to cover it all up.

The Gospel of Mary, Judas, Thomas and many other accurate accounts of what Jesus actually said and did HAD to be destroyed. They told you you didn't need the state or priests to be saved. That there is no hell, that you're cool the way you are, you don't have to buy your way into heaven. That Mary, a woman, was Jesus's wife and was his principle deciple. The Kings who controlled the Bible texts couldn't have any of THAT getting out!

When science and archaeology tell the truth, the fundamentalist just run for cover and stick their head in the sand.

The good news is: you're all saved. God loves you just the way you are. Relax. Don't send your hard-earned money to Rome or Mecca. Help the needy and the sick and the poor. When you do, you can actually feel something divine inside you. And that's the gospel.

I was gonna dissagree on some minor points hawk, till I read your last two sentences... wise words.
Wether you believe in god or not, wether the bible was written by men to control the population or not, the bible is a good roadmap to a postitive existence on earth.
If god created me in his image, and I am a reasonable man, then it is likely that god is a reasonable being - and no reasonable being would cast me into a hell just for being an ass(like I usually am)... especially in the light of hitlers, zodiac killers, enron, saddam, etc.
All books have some truth. The koran, the bible, even the church of scientology... all stem from a man trying to reach beyond himself into something more important than his insignificantly small existence on this planet.
If you donate money to the vatakin and you do it with every intention of meaning to do some good in this world... then even if someone uses it for evil... it still enriched you, enlightened you, and brought some positive energy into the world.
I try hard not to pass judgement, and am a very poor example of a christian myself, but I just can't stomach the miriads of people I see in church who show up, half listen, and scoff at the rest of the world because they don't belong to the "club", shake their fists at "those crazy muslims", and spit on the very ideas they proport they have studied (NOTE: I am in no way saying that weg is one of these people at all - just making some general statements about my observations on religion).
Churches seem to have become a place that develop their own exclusive customes - designed to make the outsider feel unwelcome... the catholic church tells me not to take communion for example... not that I care... but it only serves to disclude me from their "club".
Whatever force/being/spirit/action/energy is responsible for all that is welcoming/good/positive/right... that is my god.. be it budda/christ/alah/chi. I trust the words written on my heart above all else... and it is no perfect system.. and I could certainly benefit from reading more and spending more time educating myself in that arena... and I will... one step at a time.
breath.

We agree--don't worship an interesting book of fiction written and edited by mortal men, worship the divinity in ourselves which moves us to acts of charity, kindness and love. If there is a God, he lives through the spirit which moves us to extend a hand to lift up our brothers and sisters in need. That's the Jesus that walked the Earth, and he can walk again with us, if we let him. A very cool guy, and probably would be quite a guitar picker. I see him with a Yamaha RGX A2 (it has a light inside).

So jesus plays yamaha, huh.
My first love was a yamaha se350 (dating myself, I know)... it had a "wonderbar". (Technically I had an "ensenada" b4 that... but it is hardly worth mentioning.)
the wonderbar was something else... half the weight of the gtr was in the trem!
ahhh, those were the days...

Those are Gnostic texts not Christian my friend.

http://www.gnosis.org/

Uhm, gnostics were the FIRST Christians....my friend.

Your ignorance of this stuff is truly astounding.

The Gospel of Mary, Judas, Thomas and many other accurate accounts of what Jesus actually said and did HAD to be destroyed. They told you you didn't need the state or priests to be saved. That there is no hell, that you're cool the way you are, you don't have to buy your way into heaven. That Mary, a woman, was Jesus's wife and was his principle deciple. The Kings who controlled the Bible texts couldn't have any of THAT getting out!.

Just reading the texts of Iraneus turned my head right around about how some of these early christian "leaders" seriously jacked those gospels and letters that would stand in the way of their position and political power.

In other words, history's first exposition of The Religious Right.

We agree--don't worship an interesting book of fiction written and edited by mortal men, worship the divinity in ourselves which moves us to acts of charity, kindness and love. If there is a God, he lives through the spirit which moves us to extend a hand to lift up our brothers and sisters in need. That's the Jesus that walked the Earth, and he can walk again with us, if we let him. A very cool guy, and probably would be quite a guitar picker. I see him with a Yamaha RGX A2 (it has a light inside).

Very Nice Bother, Knowing ones self, Between their relationship with god, & the worlds people. So many times we let our Prides fault to be unforgiving. [You have my Respect]............Peace.

So jesus plays yamaha, huh.
My first love was a yamaha se350 (dating myself, I know)... it had a "wonderbar". (Technically I had an "ensenada" b4 that... but it is hardly worth mentioning.)
the wonderbar was something else... half the weight of the gtr was in the trem!
ahhh, those were the days...

I had a WonderBar tremola installed in my 79 reissue of a 59 Les Paul. I believe Washburn made them, don't know if they still do. What's cool is that if a string breaks, the rest don't detune like Floyd Rose type systems. It is heavy as hell though!

My RGX A2 is so incredibly light...I could almost walk on water with it!

anyone who reads this please go to WWW.WPOC.COM AND click VOTE NATIONAL ANTHEM AND vote for ME

KELLEY LARSON----I need your votes by FRIDAY @ 5pm. AS MANY votes as possible.


PLEASE VOTE I WANT TO WIN AND THE WINNER NOW IS SOMEHOW CHEATING WITH THE INTERNET. I WAS WINNING YESTERDAY WITH 32% AND NOW I'M IN FOURTH.


HELP ME PLEASE.

I WANT TO BE DISCOVERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You got my vote! First time the anthem ever sounded...hot!

Hey Bro!, My wife got your message on the machine today & deleted it by mistake I was gone out on buisness all day. Leave your # here at my account, call , etc. My Brother & I will contact you towmorrow or when it is convenient for you. Lets Roll!, Sincerely, VB.

Irminsul,

I disgree with every point you have made and consider them conjecture and personal opinion.

The only one I will even debate with you further is this comment:

As far as Christianity and war....you are purposely miscontruing that passage from Matthew as an excuse or approval of war. It is in fact saying that war is an unfortunate human priclivity...but then again so is "sin" if one is a Christian. And they don't usually try to excuse the continued perpetuation of that act, do they?

How dare you say that? The passage says what it says, not your interpretation of what it says. I don't want war. I want peace. I don't use that passage to justify anything. But the Lord said there will be wars and the rumors of wars. So IF you believe in HIS word War is inevitable whether you want it or not and there is nothing you or anyone can say or do to prevent it.

Clarification - I am not Christian. But having studied various Christian texts, in context with the real history surrounding them, I can tell you that if you rely on the KJV (King James Version) of the Bible as the "word of the Lord" I believe you to be sadly mistaken. The KJV is a 15th century RE-interpretation of the already interpreted-to-death Pentateuch of the Old Testament and some highly dubious translations of the New Testament. So, don't wrangle with me on that note. You'll lose.

American Christianity tends to use the KJV to spin current political beliefs largely centered on conservative to very rightwing American politics. This is an abhorrent thing to do to the text of honest, good hearted Christians and an intellectually dishonest trick of the rightwing fundamentalists in this nation.

Know what the difference is, at heart, between AlQaeda and Army of God?

Not a blessed thing.

Your not a Christian? What was my first clue.

Don't wrangle with me, you'll lose? That is a rather arrogant statement to make.

So you have studied Christian texts huh? Which ones? There is only one, the bible. Which you don't mention studying. Try it. You may be "enlightend".

I would also like to know "the real" history you speak of or do you mean "your history" so it fits "your agenda" kinda like KJV has been twisted to serve "a right wing agenda".

Please stop, you are as transparent as glass. Which was my MO all along. Thanks for walking into it.

Lastly, it is customary to say thank you when some one pays you a compliment, like when I said your music is really good. I wasn't expecting it for the aforementioned reasons.

You may respond however you like. I give you the last word. This will be the last time I address you.

If you seriously believe that the KJV Bible is the first last and only text of religious importance to Christians....disregarding the Gospels of Thomas, Judas, Mary, the Nag Hammadi writings, the original early Greek texts from which the original New Testament is pulled, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the several letters of Paul etc etc etc....then you are truly more ignorant of your own faith than I had previously thought.

So who actually walked into the glass? How are them shards tasting?

Isn't it just wrong that I....a non Christian.....would know this stuff that you SHOULD?

Those are Gnostic texts not Christian my friend.

http://www.gnosis.org/

Nice try.

I had given you the last word as I will again but I can't let something that deceptive go.

I sincerely apologize to everyone else on the board with this discussion. But if some one is going to attack me, and my faith with blatant lies, I can not allow that to go unchallenged.

afa wonder bar, indeed you are right... the wonderbar is washburn... even so, the trem that came on that se350 was truly a marvel of modern technology... it was collosal.
there's a reason the floyd is still around tho, and has changed little since it's initial design - the feel - if I wanna use a trem it's one of my gtrs with a floyd... if I wanna do dbl stops and the like it's a fixed bridge, but if it works for you... fandidleytastic.
I do however like that washburn trem that maintains the intonnation better... I forget the name... but that is the next great development in trems...

now to the heart of the matter: a gibson lp with a wonderbar?!??
damn - you allready need a backbrace to play a lp... that thing has got to be heavy as hell... you are dangerous... and I'm not lettin' ya anywhere near any of my gtrs...
speaking of les... he still plays out at a bar in waukesha here in wi... I'm gonna have to go check that place out one of these days... truly an innovator. YUP, LP, the bodeans, timbuck3 and the violent femmes... such a musical history we have here in wi...