General Music Chat

You're telling me you've never heard a local female soul singer with a better voice than Aguilera??

Sure I have, so what? If no one knows who they are, and they aren't selling themselves non-stop so that this changes, then what value is it, that they may sing better than Christina? Additionally, she has the WHOLE PACKAGE as an entertainer and vocalist. I know some girls that sing better than she does... TECHNICALLY, but they may not have the soul in their voice that she does, or they may not dance as well as she does, or entertain as well, or be in as good a shape physically as she is. It is difficult to find EVERYTHING in one package, no matter what you seem to believe. Raw talent, does not equate to STAR POWER. The Grammys, is not a TALENT CONTEST, it is an AWARDS show, for marking what they refer to as... "Outstanding achievements in the music industry"

We all know however, that it is a marketing tool ultimately.

I think you're just getting swept up in her glory runs and intense emotion.

Yeah, I do get swept up in that. Powerful emotion is usually part of selling a song. This even holds true in Opera.

Seriously, if you can't hear it, you're in the wrong business

You may be right. I don't know much about singing. I'm lucky if they let me sing in the shower.

In terms of vocal quality though, her voice has some major weaknesses

Like any singer's does. And what is weakness to one person is a strength to another. Take "Pink" for example, since you bring her up. She has a powerful voice, but it is also very masculine and course. Course sounds good on women, to some people, but not to others.

Barbara Streisand is another one, who has a tremendous range and power, but has a masculine edge to her voice, a certain harshness. Then you have Celine Dion, who is without doubt, one of the great female vocalists, and has both range and power, but she has a nasally voice, that grates on me at times.

And I never said that Christina was one of the BEST vocalists in the world. What I said, was that she is an "exceptional" singer. And she is. She sings powerfully, accurately and with proper emotion.

What I dislike about Taylor is, the industry is attempting to use her to get country to crossover into the pop market and already used Miley Cyrus to get the ball rolling. As it is, both are just rich kids that were bought into the business.

Well, you are wrong on both counts actually. Taylor Swift got her parents to move to Nashville, and she pounded the streets, just like anyone else. She got plenty of rejections before someone took a chance on her.

As to Miley Cyrus, her dad had what? One hit? Two technically, I guess, that were really big. "Achy Breaky Heart" and "Some Gave All". that hardly makes him a powerhouse in the music industry. When he was pushing hard to help Miley get the "Hannah Montana" gig, Disney at first rejected Miley. But after a year or more of searching, they just couldn't find the right combination to fit that role, so they reluctantly offered it to her. She ran with it, did amazingly well, and the rest is history. I am sure Disney couldn't imagine anyone else as Hannah Montana now, but they sure did envision someone else back then!

And connections being important?

This holds true for ANY endeavor in life. It's always WHO YOU KNOW, that helps separate you from the pack. If you don't "know" someone... you work to change that, by hitting the pavement, until they put a face to the music, and CAN'T forget you.

But you still have to have talent, and all these people have talent.

So to praise the likes of Beyonce, Aguilera, Swift, Timberlake etc. is a huge insult to someone like myself. I do more in a day than those kids do in a week.

That's doubtful. These people don't suffer exhaustion for no reason. They aren't always making it up. Some get hospitalized for it. Lady GaGa was one, just recently. The bigger you are, the more work the money behind you is expecting, to keep the ball rolling, to capture the MOMENTUM and turn it into SALES. You are flown all over the world, in the studio working on the next album, doing concerts, and maybe even movies and TV appearances, being given interviews all the time, then repeating it in the next city... the next state... the next country.

They work really hard, and sometimes pay a big price for what is demanded of them.

They're literally turning in someone elses homework and taking credit for it.

Homework? Who's homework are they doing? Yours? They get permission to license a song or two, and they put it on an album, and if that album goes platinum many times over, the songwriter may get several hundred thousand dollars, just for having ONE SONG on that album. Where is the stealing coming into play? The ripping someone off, by turning in their homework? Are you talking about black artists of the past? Yes, that happened then. But not now.

How someone can say they don't understand what song writing has to do with winning a granny is the dumbest fcking thing I've ever heard!

No, what I said was... That I didn't understand why you felt that songwriting was a PREREQUISITE for someone winning a Grammy. Songwriters win Grammys. So do Singers and entertainers. Not all singers write songs, and not all songwriters sing and perform well. These are very different skill sets, and not everyone possesses ALL in one package.

But that doesn 't mean we can't honor a great entertainer, a great vocalist, or a great songwriter. Many of the greatest songwriters of all time, were only nominally.... singers. After writing many hits for others, sure... they put out their own records if they could sing a little... but... that song was generally not going to go as far, as if Barbara Streisand or Dionne Warwick sang them.

Most of the music industry is a collaborative effort.

Singing is overrated, hundreds of millions of good singers out there.
But to write a great song, sing that song and be part of the creation process every step of the way...pop stars are frauds and do NONE of that!

They are not frauds merely because their talent lies more in singing and dancing, than WRITING. Chances are those WRITERS do not sing and dance anywhere near how the one on stage does. When a great singer and dancer entertains us with a great song... that is that much more in sales that song will generate. It's not called the "Music HOBBY" but the "Music BUSINESS". People submitting their songs to big name artists, are maintaining a CAREER, not just a love of doing something. It is also their LIVLIHOOD!

But there are plenty of stars who do it all.

Michael Jackson was one of those. He wrote MANY of the songs he made into hits. Billie Jean, he wrote starting from that famous bass line. He just made up the bass line, and went from there. Quincy Jones, Michael's producer, hated the song, and tried to get Michael to drop it from the album. I guess fortunately, Michael fought to keep it in, and it became one of the biggest pop hits of all time.

In the end, they're just spoiled brats with mediocre talent, your lovely Aguilera included.

My understanding is that Christina came from a relatively poor family. That she is a pretty down to Earth girl, according to her family, and also that success has not stopped her from being close to them, and remembering her roots.

I would still bet that most of these kids are the children of powerful people in the business and in many cases, it's withheld from public knowledge and always will be.

Connections afford someone OPPORTUNITIES, not signed CONTRACTS! Britney Spears was not wealthy, neither Christina or many, many others. Many poor and middle class people MAKE IT in the music business. Maybe even MORE of them do, and if true, it should be obvious why... because they have MORE DRIVE, and MORE REASON to need to succeed, than those born into privilege, of which you speak.

You have a jaded and even unrealistic view of this business. You are taking "some" legitimate points, to irrational extremes.

I thought I would chime in briefly. Did you guys see Christine Aguliera sing James Brown's "It's a Man's World" on the 2008 grammys? That girl broke-it-down.

As for this year's performers "Pink" was phenomenal.

That's all for now.

CraigMaxim you just live in a world of assumption.

You may as well believe everything you see on the news if you actually buy these tough stories. They had seasoned professionals backing them on their demos. Demos that were expensive.

And you think Billy Ray was broke?
Must have mortgaged the house to fly his daughter to all those auditions.

Taylor Swifts parents uproot their lives on a whim so their daughter of mediocre talent can pursue music. That doesn't seem a bit strange to you and you actually believe finance and social ties didn't play a role?

Do you even know how hard it is to get in the door at Disney?
I do, I have a brother that has worked in casting for the last 30 years. He's worked for every major director and producer out there and still focuses on helping the little guy out to produce something independent.

You can insist this and that based on what you've read online, in magazines and heard on the news but, the simple fact is the opportunity presented for people like Miley Cyrus and Taylor Swift is far greater than someone like myself from a poor middle class household that didn't and still doesn't have the finances to travel across the country MULTIPLE times for auditions and meet and greets with producers, song writers etc.

You're glorifying kids that were rented stages in shopping malls when they were barely even in their teens and insisting they had a hard road to success,
You're an asshole!

The fact that you BELIEVE these rags to riches tales says a lot about your naivety. Generally, they're made up. Nobody that's poor can afford to ditch work a half dozen times a month to drive or fly their kid to Los Angeles or New York for an audition.
Have you ever been through the audition process?
I've worked casting before, it takes dozens, DOZENS of no's before you start getting yes's and even then, they don't suddenly start pooring in.
Then you want to insist that these pop stars, all of which possess the most mediocre of talent, went through this process. You need to hit a dozen+ auditions a month for months and sometimes YEARS to get anywhere in commercial show business.
Seriously, you're an asshole!

It's pure B.S. packaged, priced and sold to the public.
It's like the story about Ashton Kutcher's first job being a janitor sweeping up in a Cheerios factory for $18 an hour.
$18 an hour??
I know TRADESMAN that didn't even start out at that wage.

Let me guess, you also believe Daniel Radcliffe, a complete unknown with ZERO experience, was cast to lead one of THE MOST expensive movies ever made?
It's another bullshit rags to riches story to sell the public. Nobody hands the wheel of a 300 million dollar production over to a poor kid with no experience. That's a gamble beyond stupidity, it's just plain retarded.

You're talking about people that have decent voices, poor instrument skills and BUY their songs from highly skilled and talented musicians like me.
I'll put my skills, talents and efforts against theirs any day of the week and absolutely humiliate any of them. The absolute reality is, they are in a social class several notches above mine which grants them both a specific respect and opportunity I'm not privileged to.

The funniest part about the Hannah Montana character is, I know FIRST HAND the real story behind the character's creation and the one you're fed is an absolute lie.
The hang up they had when she approached Disney with the concept was her voice isn't very strong.

Johnny when are you gonna post up some vocals so we can hear someone that can sing anything. I noticed on your profile you said you could sing any style, i would like to hear some of that.

Im primarily a guitarist, but I dont hear anything brilliant in your playing. Actually you sound like a beginner to me, but thats just my opinion. You seem to be such an expert shower your brilliance on some us.

You need some credibility before you start slinging insults around, but I remember when I was 23, and yes I was a far bigger asshole than you are. I guess age, wisdom, and living life kind of mellows our edge some.

Good Luck in your musical career!

Johnny when are you gonna post up some vocals so we can hear someone that can sing anything. I noticed on your profile you said you could sing any style, i would like to hear some of that.

Im primarily a guitarist, but I dont hear anything brilliant in your playing. Actually you sound like a beginner to me, but thats just my opinion. You seem to be such an expert shower your brilliance on some us.

You need some credibility before you start slinging insults around, but I remember when I was 23, and yes I was a far bigger asshole than you are. I guess age, wisdom, and living life kind of mellows our edge some.

Good Luck in your musical career!

LAMO!

Dude a song I did in 20 minutes with no effort mops the floor with every completed track posted on your page. Your voice is weak and your guitar playing a bore.
You think you can contend with my playing?

I'm a beginner yet I play 8 finger touch which is beyond guys like your beloved Satriani, Vai etc.

Nobody is getting signed based off their band web pages. They're simply glorified hobbies for local exposure, strutting your stuff to your peers and sometimes finding other musicians to play with.
You get signed by cutting a quality demo, promoting it and finally getting invited by someone at a label to send your demo, audition live or meet with them in person.

...And wtf is with that crack hooker mullet?

Please, feel free to blow me!

John Boy

Head to head in a live situation I would mop the floor with you. It doesnt matter what kind of technique you think you have.

If you really want to make any kind of career at anything it would help to learn a little respect for fellow musicans.

You blew any chance of respect from me from your first post on.

My music I post here is just for me. I do it cause I love it. Not to entertain you.

If you are going to talk about being professional the first thing you should do is act professional.

I still wish you Good Luck in your musical endeavers.

ANd Jonny theres a time stamp on your post that tells when you wrote your last post. You checked in 4 minutes and wrote your reply after my post, thats not enough time to have listened to much on my player. I did at least listen to your two samples all the way thru before I commented. Like I said if you want respect you should earn it, and if your going to slam another musician maybe you should really listen thru some things before showing that you are jsut another flaming ass on here, Have a Good Day John Boy

I listened to your music while I posted, it wasn't bad but it sounds like your hobby not a marriage.
Nobody is going to sign you based on what I heard and stock your CD on the shelves at Walmart.

It wasn't a personal attack, just my opinion.
Your attack was quite personal and unfounded. I've yet to take the time to record anything of substance let alone with planning and preparation.

In regards to nonsense like the Grannys, I know in any social situation outside the internet. Any club I go to, any music store I visit, any music school I attend -anyone I mention the Grannys to and people like these popstars you're all defending, everyone will frown over and scold them.

That tells me that the internet being the way it is, you have a vested interest in sticking up for these no talent brats that have careers before they're even graduated from high school.
Nobody under the age of 21 or for that matter 25, knows what it is to struggle, pound the pavement and take YEARS of no's before finally getting some important yes's. No amount of work they put in earns them what they've been given, nothing you say counts.

Your insistence that someone who can not even legally vote having earned their success is not just an insult to my intelligence but a complete embarrassment to yourself.
Wisdom and humility takes a lot of years, these kids you're grandstanding still have none and some of them are now in their 30's. They're selfish and narcissistic giving absolutely nothing back to the profession.

After reviewing your pages, I can see without a doubt many of you have never been in a production studio directly connected to Hollywood. Those people you're all talking about aren't really working in the music industry, they're working for HOLLYWOOD.
They're working in pop culture and there is a huge difference between the branches.

So feel free to roar on, badmouth me, challenge me WHATEVER.
I know in the real world any club, college, music store etc. I visit where rock based music is the norm and local bands find love, everything I said here will be agreed with and more so, the maturity level will drop and the prayers for their deaths will be spoken as well as the hatred of Hollywood award ceremonies.

This is why I dislike the internet, too many people lying about who they are and who they're connected to. I should take my camcorder, hit the local scene and prove you all wrong because I'll get dozens and dozens of people that LOATH these pop brats and LOATH the Grannys.

Your attack was quite personal and unfounded.

LOL

Like calling me an asshole several times? And why? Because I disagree with some of your assertions?

I've yet to take the time to record anything of substance let alone with planning and preparation.

Of course you haven't.

That's like those "singers" on American Idol that insist they just need "one more" chance... they picked the wrong song... they started in the wrong key... they weren't warmed up enough.

You think you know anything about the music industry, and you bitch and moan that kids with connections get a shot (translation: I'm so jealous... why didn't I have a daddy that could get me in the door too?!!!)

And yet... You aren't even professional enough to have a demo that you are proud of?

You're just a whiny, snot nosed poser.

Grow the f*ck up, before you burn all the bridges you may be fortunate enough to get to walk over.

Your attitude is for sh*t. Making excuses for yourself is unprofessional and lame. The adults here, all realize that most 20 somethings think they know everything already, but you don't know sh*t yet. You haven't lived long enough, or had enough experiences to know, what you think you know.

Boring whininess, does not replace seriousness, hard work, and dedication. You are far too young to bitch about some lost opportunity that you haven't even worked for yet.

You have ZERO credibility here now. And amazingly, it only took one person disagreeing with you, to bring the know-nothing 20-something attitude front and center.

You are still a child.

Grow up.

We've all made your mistakes DECADES ago.

There is a saying...

"Smart people learn from their mistakes... but the smartest people, learn from the mistakes of OTHERS."

Stop posing... shut your mouth a little bit more...

And learn something.

As another saying goes...

"Better to remain silent and let people THINK you are an idiot, than to open your mouth, and remove all doubt!"

I don't get all the snobbery I'm seeing in here-

I pointed out singers like madonna and taylor swift to make a point, and everyone jumped on the bandwagon to trash them just because they can't sing like christina agulera...

Frankly, with that attitude, it's a wonder how a singer like stevie nicks ever sold a record. Might have to do with her just having a pretty, sultry voice? Not every female singer out there has to sound like they are having amultiple orgasm to be GOOD.

Taylor swift has a nice voice, and she's a decent singer. She's not a great singer, but neither is a lot of famous singers... if everyone famous was GREAT, then nobody would be.

Her dad ain't that rich, they were upper middle class sure.. but it was her manager and sponsors who paid for the mall slot. It's called creative marketing, and frankly, it was a brilliant way to think outside of the box, especially in this area where nothing really happens.

Just cause someone doesn't write their own music or has an 8-octave range doesn't mean they are incapable of being a good entertainer. I respect almost anyone who has the desire, ethic, and sheer determination to succeed in this industry.

CraigMaxim you're a narcissist.
You think you have anything to offer me?
You're some slob in his 40's from Georgia.
Seriously, burn bridges?

Anyone in my genre of music will do the same thing I'm doing, laugh in your desperate face. What, the guys from bands like Megadeth, Lamb of God, Metallica, Meshuggah, Children of Bodom, Static X, White Zombie and so on give a wet hot fart about pop stars and the Grammies?

You actually think kissing ass on the internet amounts to something.
I have my opinions and you don't agree.
Ok and?

The fact that any of you take up for the likes of pop stars is really embarrassing on your parts. I'm a rock and metal musician, these people are trash and in the world outside this computer, my opinion is shared by most that follow the rock and metal trends.

If I go down to the grog shop, the robin hood or any other local club and mention these people, everyone will frown. Nobody wants to listen to crap that targets 15 year olds when they're in their 20's and 30's.
No self respecting musician respects these people and views them as talented musicians.

For some reason, many of you do but after listening to a lot of your pages and hearing your limited potential, of course you do. Music is your hobby and big league success is a dream.
In that, we have nothing in common.

Music is my career, mainstream success is my goal.
It will be a lot of hard work and nobody is going to sign me and do all the work for me because I have a cute face and a set of tits or because I'm sleeping with someone in the industry that does.

You guys are absolutely ridiculously but feel free to carry on, this thread is yours not mine.
My thread would be one that mocks the Grammies and Hollywood bullshit you all seem to buy into whole heartedly.

Ok, mr. Deth.
Let begin by saying 'L-O-L' to all of your bullshit.

I listened to your profile samples - you have nothing. NOTHING.
Put your money where your mouth is.

"You're talking about people that have decent voices, poor instrument skills and BUY their songs from highly skilled and talented musicians like me.
I'll put my skills, talents and efforts against theirs any day of the week and absolutely humiliate any of them. "

^ Thats great stuff there. Made me laugh my ass off.

You're just another stupid kid who thinks they know all.
Either that, or just a troll.


Anything on jw123's profile wipes the floor with what you have posted so far - and if you honestly cant hear that or realize that, then just go away.

Or dont go away, lol.
You picked the wrong guy to argue with in Craig Maxim

Should make for pages of entertaining reading.

CraigMaxim you're a narcissist.
You think you have anything to offer me?
You're some slob in his 40's from Georgia.
Seriously, burn bridges?

I'm not narcissistic Jonny. I never said that "I" was the bridge you were burning. I'm not in a position to help your career, and I may never be. It is your overall attitude that I am addressing. It is unlikely that you have singled out the members of Bandmix for special treatment, and aren't like this in your daily life. On the contrary, it is likely that you treat most people this way.

This won't serve you in climbing the ladder.

Anyone in my genre of music will do the same thing I'm doing, laugh in your desperate face. What, the guys from bands like Megadeth, Lamb of God, Metallica, Meshuggah, Children of Bodom, Static X, White Zombie and so on give a wet hot fart about pop stars and the Grammies?

Most people here could care less about who wins or doesn't win a Grammy. The Grammys are much like Valentines Day. A manufactured and marketed holiday, designed to increase sales revenues. We know the politics behind it all. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching LIVE performances by some of the artists performing there.

You actually think kissing ass on the internet amounts to something.

Showing a little more respect, first and foremost... to your ELDERS, is not ass kissing... it is a sign of a good upbringing. It shows you have some values, and earns you respect in return. Secondly... showing respect to SEASONED VETERANS of music, is a time honored tradition. Most here, have been at this longer than you. They have more experience than you. They have paid more dues than you. They have decades of history, playing for many thousands of people across the country, etc... When you are wanting to climb the ladder to the top, it is always wise and commendable, to pay respects to those who came before you. Then those people are pulling for you to go all the way, and you may actually learn something in the process. There are a hundred mistakes you haven't even been confronted with yet, that are old hat, to the players who have been doing this for decades of their lives. It is simply arrogant and rather childish, to believe that people with that much experience, have nothing to offer that you could learn from.

I have my opinions and you don't agree.
Ok and?

disagreements are fine. But I don't deserve to be called an "asshole" by you, merely because we disagree on something. Secondly, some of our disagreements have nothing to do with "opinion" but rather, some of your assertions are simply factually inaccurate.

The fact that any of you take up for the likes of pop stars is really embarrassing on your parts. I'm a rock and metal musician, these people are trash and in the world outside this computer, my opinion is shared by most that follow the rock and metal trends.

Your opinions are followed by 20-somethings that have narrow musical experience and are generally narrow-minded because of the lack of maturity that only life experience gives. Most musicians here, have preferences on their favorite genres, but can still appreciate and recognize talent, whether it is in our preferred genre or not. As you get older, you develop a little more of the "live and let live" attitude. To call people "trash" on a personal level, because you can't stand their chosen genre of music, is unreasonable. Someone is not "trash" because of the style of music they perform.

Sid Vicious, founding member of the Sex Pistols, was as rebellious as they come. Anarchist to the core. Fighting society's rules with every breath. Back then, punk was the hip thing going on. You would probably not have called him trash. He died because his MOTHER gave him too pure a dose of heroine, when he got out of jail, having been charged with murdering his girlfriend.

Living to excess, is usually a product of youth, and the belief that you will live forever, than it is, what genre of music you play. Young pop stars that walk into fortunes and fame, are no less immune to living selfishly and living life with excess, than young people who get fortunes and fame, playing metal or thrash or anything else.

Billie Holiday was a heroine addict, and she was a torch singer. Satchmo, or Louis Armstrong was an addict, and he was a great jazz trumpet player. Jim Morrison was an addict and he was a rock singer. Hank Williams was a country singer and an alcoholic, addicted to morphine and painkillers. Jimi Hendrix was a great guitarist, and he abused heroine, LSD and amphetamines. Besides the drug abuse, most of these people also had problems with violence and abuse of others, which is very selfish.

Bad character, and personal demons, are not limited to any specific genre of music.

And talent can be found in ANY genre of music.

My thread would be one that mocks the Grammies and Hollywood bullshit you all seem to buy into whole heartedly.

What Hollywood "bullsh*t" are we buying into? The fact that some people really do come from humble circumstances, or are not related to someone important in the music industry, and they pound the pavement, work hard, and end up making it?

It is a FACT, that this occurs from time to time, and it is easy to provide names of those who have done so.

But that makes us ridiculous, whereas, you believe that the music industry is so powerful, that they can even hide any information of a celebrity's family history, in order to re-manufacture a new history for them, to sell to the public to buy into. Somehow, all these people's family members, friends and even acquaintances in high school, are all on the payroll as well, and none of them bother to speak out, to say... "Hey wait a minute... that singer didn't grow up in the Bronx... I knew her when she was living on Nantucket Island, her father is the CEO of Beatrice Foods, and we both went to Harvard together!

Oh yeah, and all the media outlets, even TMZ and the like, are all on the music industry's game-plan and payroll too?

But WE are ridiculous.

You picked the wrong guy to argue with in Craig Maxim

Should make for pages of entertaining reading.

LOL


Shhhh... Don't warn him! That takes half the fun out of it!

Wowo I watch some history channel and I missed this war?

Kiddies be easy with each other. Is this national hate week>?

WELL, the only thing I hate is Taylor Swift.

Take away her sex appeal and what do you have left? A: nothing.. lol

You're just another stupid kid who thinks they know all.
Either that, or just a troll.


Anything on jw123's profile wipes the floor with what you have posted so far - and if you honestly cant hear that or realize that, then just go away.

One of the few things in this thread I agree with