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#99776 by CraigMaxim
Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:04 pm


Rented Michael Jackson's "This Is It!" on Bluray last night!

Michael is PHENOMENAL!

At 50 he was still dancing like he was in his 20's and singing in the same key as when he was 15 with the Jackson Five!

The sets were off the chain, and the effects and choreography were superb! Michael was playing with a REAL BAND in this set of concerts, which we will never see now, and with singers actually singing their parts!

There is NO DOUBT whatsoever that Michael's concerts would have been HUGE and VERY successful!

And as always, Michael was the consumate professional. Running the show, being a perfectionist... catching mistakes by the musicians and singers, and even directors of the production. His memory was sensational, for every mark, every note.

It is a DAMN SHAME that these 50 concerts did not get to go forward.

Something like this was SORELY NEEDED in music today!

An actual.... STAGE SHOW!

A musical and dramatic event, that was not "all booty shakin'" like rap concerts, or "all headbanging" like metal concerts. There was a PLOT, a STORY being told here.

The world has lost one of the greatest talents and entertainers, that it will ever see!

I cried, just watching and thinking what the world has lost.

God let this man go out, the way he would have wanted. Surrounded by singers and musicians... the people who were like his REAL family, who understood him, as only fellow artists would. He was in top form, and went to bed that night after a strong rehearsal. He didn't die fat and bloated... a has-been... literally dying on a toilet seat. He died preparing for what would have been the best concert in decades. A final farewell to his fans, to his music of decades, to performing live...

He had a good and decent heart. An amazing talent. And a love for humanity... a desire to see the world find LOVE, and grow past judgement and hatred.

I can't believe he's gone.

I am sad the world will not get to share that final farewell in 50 concerts.

I highly recommend this documenatary of his practices for the shows.

A talent like his, may never come around again in your lifetime.

#99778 by Iain Hamilton
Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:12 pm
Would you like a Kleenex Craigy poo?

#99779 by Kramerguy
Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:20 pm
MJ has layers.. like an onion.

Onions make people cry.

#99781 by CraigMaxim
Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:27 pm
Iain Hamilton wrote:
Would you like a Kleenex Craigy poo?



I cried at least 3 times watching it.

Michael was a good person. Mistreated and maligned wrongly. I wouldn't have believed that about 10 years ago, but I KNOW this to be true in my soul.

He didn't have it in him, to harm others.

He was the one always used, abused and hurt. From his father beating him and berating him, and milking Michael's talents while simultaneously demeaning him... to the money grubbing parents who used their own children to try and get a pay day out of him.

Michael was simply a child in his heart, who didn't want to grow up, because grown-ups do horrible things to each other, and he wanted nothing to do with becoming like that.

#99782 by CraigMaxim
Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:29 pm
Kramerguy wrote:MJ has layers.. like an onion.

Onions make people cry.



Yeah, well, he's not the messiah.

But neither was he a child molester!

There would be a slew of books right now, if he was. Bush leaves the White House... books galore. Anything else... books gallore. Where's the books?

No one has a valid story to tell.

#99786 by jimmydanger
Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:22 pm
Yes I agree Craig. People call him a peodphile but I think he was just a messed up kid who was denied a childhood and never grew up. There's no doubt he had inappropriate relationships with children but I doubt that he molested them. I have a hard time picturing him having sex with anyone.

#99789 by Kramerguy
Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:35 pm
Quite frankly, I was just making a Shrek joke / reference.

Me saying MJ makes people cry could be good or bad. You made a solid choice to take what I said as bad. Although my sentiments about MJ are quite bad...

Everyone seems to forget him dangling a newborn baby off a balcony...
Forget the other allegations. I can't forgive him for that. I couldn't possibly imagine doing that to my daughter when she was an infant.

Dude gets no sympathy or kudos from me just because he's good at shaking his @ss.

#99793 by philbymon
Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:07 pm
Dangling a baby off a balcony? OMG, Kramer! You would have been truly appalled to see me with my son when he was a baby.

Damn I can't help but laugh when ppl get all up in arms over that, or when Brittney was holding her baby at the steering wheel & pretending he could drive.

In fact, I would say I've done both of those horrible things with my own, & worse, according to some ppl. Is it the celebrity that makes it so bad, or am I really a horrible person? (I couldn't care less what your answer is, really, cuz I already know what I am.)

We all do things that could be considered questionable with our littlest kids. It's part of being a parent, & it's also part of the fun of being a parent. What I do might bug the living hell outta you, but I wouldn't necessarilly call what you do as a parent perfectly right, either. Bottom line - did the kid survive it without adverse affects? If so, then you're a good parent, as far as I'm concerned, or at least well on your way to being one.

#99797 by 1collaborator
Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:17 pm
The one thing you can count on is MJ's legacy will outlive all of us. The things that happened when he was alive means little to him now except in the eyes of the people that knew him. Otherwise I believe he's paying the piper for all of his good and bad deeds.


But its still Paradise !!!!

#99804 by Kramerguy
Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:22 pm
philbymon wrote:Dangling a baby off a balcony? OMG, Kramer! You would have been truly appalled to see me with my son when he was a baby.

Damn I can't help but laugh when ppl get all up in arms over that, or when Brittney was holding her baby at the steering wheel & pretending he could drive.

In fact, I would say I've done both of those horrible things with my own, & worse, according to some ppl. Is it the celebrity that makes it so bad, or am I really a horrible person? (I couldn't care less what your answer is, really, cuz I already know what I am.)

We all do things that could be considered questionable with our littlest kids. It's part of being a parent, & it's also part of the fun of being a parent. What I do might bug the living hell outta you, but I wouldn't necessarilly call what you do as a parent perfectly right, either. Bottom line - did the kid survive it without adverse affects? If so, then you're a good parent, as far as I'm concerned, or at least well on your way to being one.


If he had dropped the kid, I'd say a probability of 98% that the kid would have either died or become a vegetable.

So, are you arguing that he wouldn't be criminally responsible because he was just havin' fun?

And, would you argue that it's okay to do that, since he didn't drop the kid, but that it wouldn't be okay if he did drop the kid?

I just can't understand what part of cat-and-mouse dangling someone over certain death is "fun". What if you slipped, or a nerve pinched in your back and made you (or MJ) drop the kid. In a world where accidental deaths are so damn common already, I don't see how tempting fate is "fun"

I'm a bit disappointed to see you defending the concept. Defending MJ is understandable...

I've never considered myself a tightass or objectional person to what other people do, I'm about as liberal as it gets.. but what you defend is simply wrong.

If someone dangled me over a railing "for fun", they'd be lucky to ever walk again when I'm done kicking their ass.

#99806 by RGMixProject
Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:31 pm
There are over 100 million stupid things parents do with their children. What MJ did was one more to add to the list.
How kids survive their parents is beyond me :shock:

#99807 by philbymon
Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:34 pm
All I can say is don't ever get around me & Jace, cuz we rough-house pretty rough sometimes, or at least it LOOKS that way.

Ppl do this sort of thing without even thinking, Kramer. It ain't all that.

I don't even see it as "taking dangerous risks," anymore, but I'm not your typical soccar mom type, either.

Life's dangerous, man, & ppl do stupid stuff. Get over it. I'll admit it ain't all the smartest stuff in the world to do, but get a frikken grip! It ain't nothing to fight about either...

#99808 by Kramerguy
Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:46 pm
yeap.. I'm done with this topic.

#99813 by CraigMaxim
Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:38 pm


Kramer, I wasn't judging you bro. Yes, I assumed something, but it was a pretty veiled reference after all, and the molestation charges were the most serious offense, people believe him guilty of.

Jimmy, I agree with you too. He "DID" have some inappropriate experiences with children, although most of it was STUPIDITY rather than anything else.

As to dangling the kid off the balcony... I watched the documentary, where this was detailed and he spoke about it at length, and they had footage from BOTH inside the hotel room, as well as outside from downstairs. It appeared FAR WORSE outside, than when you saw the same event from inside the room.

When questioned about it, he explained that the fans had been screaming to see the new baby, and they had been out there for hours. He said that he was simply giving his fans something special by letting them see the baby, hence holding him above the railing, and yes, technically outside, because he was lifting the baby, up and over the railing, so that the railing was not blocking them from seeing him. Irresponsible? Yes. But he also claimed that he would never put his children at risk, and he said that he had his entire arm, under the baby's arms and was gripping the baby, securely across the child's entire chest. Th video bears this out. He had a very secure grip on the child, and as mentioned before, it looked far worse from the OUTSIDE VIDEO (which was the only video available to the news at the time) than the video shot by his interviewer, who happened to be WITH HIM in the room when this happened.

Again... Irresponsible? Yes.

But I believe it was far less dangerous, what he did, than when Steve Irwin, brought his own infant, INSIDE a fence with a HUGE alligator, and then held the baby out toward the alligator, striking fear into the crowd, as part of his show. That was potentially far more dangerous, than what Jackson did.

Still wrong. But not as insane as it was made to look.

Steve Irwin was still loved by the masses, and suffered less judgement than Jackson did, for showing the crowd his new baby in a brief instance.

Jackson was emotionally, and in some ways mentally, like a child himself. When you have that much money, and that many people after you, and everything you have, and when you can't even trust your own family to guide you... well, he didn't have alot of guidance in life, and kind of lived it by the seat of his pants, learning as he went along.

By "ALL" accounts, of ANYONE, including unbiased journalists, who spent any concrete amount of time with him... Jackson was a phenomenally loving and attentitve father. At the funeral, and since then, it was quite obvious how much his children loved him.

Geraldo was able to spend hours upon hours with him, during a series of interviews, and was allowed all throughout his Netherland compound. Geraldo says, in no uncertain terms, that he believes the charges were ALL rubbish, and he didn't believe them for a minute. He claimed that these people were predators, trying to get a pay day.

I trust Geraldo.

He is a VERY fair journalist, and maybe more importantly, he doesn't hide his loathing of any kinds of predators... men who abuse women, racists who use violence, child molestors... you name it. You can see the anger in him... He wants to kick their asses right there, when he confronts them. Someone like Geraldo would be first in line, to rake him through the coals, if he had seen any HINT of that kind of behavior. Jackson was also married to Lisa Marie Presley for a year or so, whatever it was. They were together constantly, and she had an inside view of everything. There have been other journalists from time to time, that he has also allowed in. All of these people tell the same story... He was a loving father to his children, and he genuinely loved kids.

When asked why he surounded himself with so many kids, his response was simply...

"They are the only ones who tell me the truth."

I can't imagine the life he lived. The lack of trust, even in his own family. Being equally loved by the world, and villified by it.

I truly believe that all the money in the world, is not worth the price he paid, for his father putting him in the spotlight at such an early age, and putting such enormous pressure on him to succeed, and beating him brutally, to keep him in line, making money for them, and then his own father's insults over Michael's appearance.... "He's not my son! Look at the huge nose of his, he looks ridiculous!" This is alot to deal with as a child. Hell, it is alot to deal with as an adult. Look at all the adult stars who succumb to drugs and violence and criminal behaviors, when they can't deal with the strains of their own success.

Michael could have become just like that. Anyone could have expected him to do that easily. But he tried to maintain his own heart, a love for others, and a determination, NOT to punish others who had harmed him.

He was a very loving, but just... insecure and immature human being.

He "WAS" a light in our world.

I truly believe that.

And the more information I have gathered, the more interviews I have seen now, with him.... just makes me believe that even more strongly.

He was truly, and to a novel degree... a genuinely INNOCENT human being. Mistreated harshly by his own family, and by the world.

I admit, that somewhere between my 20's and 30's, like many others, I also believed some of the hype. After all, he paid off the first one. He explained though, that he didn't think he could bear the media scrutiny, going through the entire months long court process... he said it just seemed "easier" to give them what they wanted.... money. But when the other allegation came, years later... he realized that this would continue, if he didn't stand up, and fight people like this. So he did. And guess what? He won. Geraldo was one of the few at the time, who said without hesitation, that he would beat this charge. Why? Because it wasn't true. Geraldo had gotten that sense, first hand. Speaking to Michael for hours, as well as the children that visited him.

I fell for the hype back then.

Now I see more clearly.

I've come to truly admire him now.

To admire his heart.

I know how difficult it is, to work to maintain a loving heart, when people damage you so severely... multiply that exponentially for him, when entire news organizations demean and defame him!

He was a genuinely GOOD person.

#99815 by philbymon
Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:04 pm
Eh...we seem to be very fond of screaming "CRIMINAL" at ppl around here anymore. Ppl who do stupid stuff aren't looking to hurt anyone, &, imho, aren't "criminally negligent" even when things tend to go terribly wrong. I'm just sick to death of the finger-pointing & ppl who are all-too-eager to "put ppl away" for making honest failures of judgement.

I can feel perfectly okay about defending his actions with his own kid. Had it been someone else's child, that would be another matter, btw.

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