General Music Chat

More and more places are telling me you can play for the door. Is that happening in your town? I'm not playing that game. It all goes to supply and demand. Too many bands, not enough venues, too many bands desperate to get in front of people. If a venue owner tells me I can play for the door they can kiss my ass...GOODBYE...

I wouldn't, either, bob. That's just another way of ripping off the band & the customer, imho. It also makes it extremely tough for the band just starting out. I won't support those policies by even patronizing those places that push them on us.

That's how it always used to be at certain venues when I was out and about. We just looked at it s you say:

"bands desperate to get in front of people"

There were odd times when we did get a Salary but not that many in all honesty. In fact sometimes we just took a job for free to get the word out for other gigs. That did work too.

Times are tough aren't they.

There's a few reasons why it's BAD for the club. First and foremost is this economy. Most likely the people who show up are there to DRINK. That's what bars are for. When they find out there's a $5 cover charge they are going to turn around and head to the nearest bar where there isn't a cover charge so they can BUY A DRINK OR TWO WITH THE $5. This one bar owner says they haven't been getting anybody to come into their bar. GUESS WHY NOT DUMBASS. Second, there's always people who ask at the door who's playing and if they don't know the band or don't like the band (can't imagine anybody not liking us) they turn around and head elsewhere. Third, who is responsible for collecting the $5? Either the bar supplies the person to do it (and I assume PAYS them to do it) or the band gets somebody to do it (and I assume PAYS them to do it). So right off the bat there's THREE LOSSES OF REVENUE for the bar and/or the band playing there. Maintaining a cover charge is a LOSE-LOSE-LOSE proposition in the long run for a bar that features local bands. IT DOESN'T WORK AND NEVER WILL WORK AND I WON'T BE A PART OF IT...EVER...Oh yeah, here's the most important fourth reason. Hiring a professional band (like us) is an INVESTMENT. A good band (like us) will eventually increase attendance. The first few times a good band (like us) plays at a venue the attendance may not be sufficient to justify paying the band. I understand that. But as time goes by and the bar consistently has good bands (LIKE US) then the attendance will gradually increase. The people attending the bar who like the band will gradually start telling their friends about the band, and over time more and more fans will attend. It is all about CONSISTENCY IN MARKETING AND ADVERTISING. ALSO, the bands who play there SHOULD interact with the crowd and find out what songs they like and gradually start adding some tunes the crowd likes. Now, I don't play requests that I don't know or DON'T LIKE, but I'm open to learn some tunes well and bring them into the repertoire and play them for people later. This is why we need to get a guaranteed payday. I want as many people in the bar as possible. I also will WORK HARDER AT GETTING PEOPLE THERE IF I KNOW I WILL GET PAID WHAT I'M WORTH. ThE WHOLE IDEA OF HIRING PROFESSIONALS IS TO MAKE A PROFIT. THAT INVOLVES A LOT OF THINGS WHICH I JUST TALKED ABOUT HERE. If the trend in K.C. becomes play for the door everywhere YOU WILL NOT SEE ME PLAY ANYWHERE IN K.C., sorry.

That's how they do it here... Hopefully my new band can get corporate and college gigs where there's a negotiation of set salary...but... sorry... if you love playing and want exposure, that's the way it is now and there's not a freakin' thing we can do about it but stay in our rooms and play for nothing...

Trend? That's just the way it is if you play original music. If you play three sets of covers you can negotiate a fee ($400 is average). Most original acts make up the difference by selling merch - CDs, shirts, mugs, etc. It is extremely competitive out there and bands are willing to work cheap just to get the job. If you're trying to do this to make money I would suggest reevaluating why you play music.

mostly it's happening at places that we've never played before. It HAS become a trend, although more of a indication of changing times - can't deny that lower gig rates have allowed many bands that shouldn't leave the garage to play more venues, combined with the fact that any jackoff (THE WRITER) can record a demo without ever knowing how to play an instrument.


Ever audition a guy who talked a GREAT game before the audition, he was so confident that he was a fantastic player, had you (me) hooked, came in for the audition, and couldn't even get through one song.. was so tone deaf that he didn't even notice all his wrong notes, bullshit his was through the hard parts as if you wouldn't notice?

Imagine that guy playing saturday night at your favorite club, hired because his demo was decent.

Not that the door charge stops people like that- But it's a sign of value, mostly that by that guy (and his band...) playing out at all, they are de-valuing the scene.

It's hard to blame the venues sometimes. It's become difficult for non-musicians to detect the crap bands before the gig.

I only dream of "playing for the door" at some of these MEGA CHURCHES.
I'd love to take their money and put it to use spreading the word, instead of building basketball courts.

It's happening here as well.

It's all part of the fallacious notion that bar owners have that the band attracts customers, so if you really are a good band the door will be a lot of money. It's stupid, really. Unless you are a well-known act (you know, one which the bar could not possibly afford to book) you probably aren't going to attract enough people to make a real difference.

The bar attracts people, the band keeps them there.

There's a bar here that's new and is trying to build business which is trying this approach. The get some good bands. Once. It they did it only once, that'd be one thing. There was a bar in another town I played in years ago whose policy was that you played for the door the first time, but if you were invited back you got a minimum plus the door (I think the minimum was $300).

And, IME, people will pay a $5 cover. But $10, they won't bother.

I only dream of "playing for the door" at some of these MEGA CHURCHES.
I'd love to take their money and put it to use spreading the word, instead of building basketball courts.

I'd just like to take their money

Joel Osteen beat me to it

Unless you are a well-known act (you know, one which the bar could not possibly afford to book) you probably aren't going to attract enough people to make a real difference.

Well spoke. I've said it before but I do know of bands like www.fiftyampfuse.com that can name their price because they're that good. They make $1000 a night for a normal bar. They charge $4000-5000 for weddings and corporate events. And they're booked for the next year. It's all supply and demand.

There are a lot of pukey bands in this area. They couldn't get much for the door.

On the other hand there are a few bands that don't mind playing for the door. And they get more than the club will pay most of the time. However, they are tried and true. They proven they can draw a full house and always fill the clubs.
So, I guess that if you have paid your dues in an area, and pleased the civilians, it works. If not, it doesn't.

Seems to me that there should be a half way offer somewhere. The club paying X amount, and the door booty paying what you are really worth. The bottom line in any investment .

I see road bands that suck, big time Nashville bravado. They get way too much. I think that if they didn't have a money machine pushing them, they wouldn't be making it even locally.

People just don't follow bands like they used to. Gas costs too much. They'd rather stick close to home. That means that each venue, if they are going to have bands, MUST start producing a consistent product. That means perhaps specializing in a few genres. That means hiring reliable bnads that know what they are doing. That means NOT HIRING amateurs. I understand the concept of paying the door. IF a band has a big following it will probably work out better for the band. The theory is sound, just the practice is NOT. Times are different today. In the long run it is far better to give the band a guarantee. There's always off nights. Bd weather, a big local sporting event, a major concert in town, etc. can all deplete the turnout. I'll be damned if I'm going to lug my PA, play for four hours and make less than minimum wage EVER. It's NOT HAPPENING. IT'S NOT FAIR. IT'S NOT PROFESSIONAL. A VENUE OWNER THAT TELLS ME THAT I CAN PLAY FOR THE DOOR CAN SHOVE IT WHERE THE SUN DON'T SHINE....

I see the bars are made for drinking comment, as being the most practically valid point here.
If musicians want a venue with music being the principal attraction. We will have to build our own.
I have no problem with someone having a cold one while they enjoy our show. I'll probably have a cold one with them at the break.
But... the second you procure a liqueur license and begin to sell liqueur.
It's a BAR.
The principal reason of public attraction is no longer music.
Home entertainment is very attractive in a down economy as well.
For a lot of people, a $50 ticket or even a five dollar cover charge on a weekend can be the difference in having gas to get to work on Monday.

I wonder?
How much would it cost for any of us to lease an auditorium with a 500 person capacity in our respective areas, and produce a concert?
Venue lease = ?
Insurance = ?
Tickets (overhead to producer not "door price") = ?
Event Staff = ?
Advertisement = ?
Bands = ?

What else would one have to cover from ticket sales before any profit was realized ??

At the end of the day I just want to play out there. If someone hears something or wants to hire whatever I have, or.......... hopefully by then the band I am in then great.

If not then I'm doing something I love and have a feel for and I'll take whatever comes. It's about music, making people feel happy and tap their feet, meeting people and going on from there. The first step is always difficult and most times you'll have people fall off the trail but so long as you have some conviction, no love of what you are doing it really doesn't matter a hoot what they pay you is my view.

Yes cover expenses and so on of course. That's the bare minimum and so long as families are included I really don't see a problem at all.

Anywho I'm a people person so it's much easier for me.
If it's a job then I'm interested of course but if you take FUN away I'm not going to be around for very long because that's where the ideas are.

Just my take of course.