General Music Chat

<rant>
Everywhere I go I run into musicians telling me they can't seem to find a bass player for their band. This usually follows my telling them that I'm a bass player. The complaint goes on to say they've tried everything to find a bass player and none ever respond.

I know and know of a lot of bass players looking for a band. There's a serious disconnect here.

So, those other musicians looking for a bass player then invite me to audition for their band. So I ask them what kind of band it is, how often they gig, what kind of audiences they play to.

And I invariably wind up politely declining to audition for their lame excuse for a band. It's either all blues, all seventies rock, thrash metal or any of a dozen other things that, as a bass player, exactly fails to have any interest for me.

It occurs to me there are really good bands out there playing all the time and they never have trouble finding a bass player. Well, okay, part of this is because their bass players refuse to leave the band because, well, honestly, I wouldn't once I was in such a band and any bass player in his right mind would feel the same way.

I think the problem is more that there is a shortage of bands that don't suck than that there is a shortage of bass players.

What's more, a similar thing can be said about drummers. I put out an ad on Craigslist looking for musicians. I've had drummers clamoring to join my band. Guitarists not so much. Yet there are still a whole lot of ads looking for drummers.

Having trouble finding a rhythm section for your band? Take a look in the mirror.
</rant>

There. I feel better now. That rant has been building for a few days.

I get called once in a while to play for somebody. Too bad I'm already in a band...

The problem (as I see it) is simple.

Yes, there are bass players out there. However, not as many as drummers, guitarists. Yet, more are available than singers. In fact, Bass players and singers have a lot in common-

I was in a band that went almost 9 months without a bass. And we were looking, putting out ads etc.. there IS a lack of saturation, simply because most string (rock) players want to play the guitar, do solos, be adored.. playing bass is a thankless job in comparison, so less people gravitate to it.

Of the people who DO gravitate to it, many realize that the bass is NOT a lead instrument, and take up guitar instead, or play "lead bass". IMO "lead bass" is the WORST thing that can happen to a band, right up there with the "lead drummer". Both are part of the rhythm section, and when they are doing leads, who is holding the rhythm?

And, for the record, I'm not talking about runs up and down the neck (although that is a part of it), I'm talking about a song that requires the drummer to play a 4/4 simple beat and a bass line that resembles a "best of Fonzie" audio clip - A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-E

Most bassists and drummers get bored and start doodling .. even though it ruins the song, all they know is that THEY sound good.

So, maybe I just went on a tangent.. but bottom line- a GOOD bass player who understands true rhythm, dynamics, and can keep his wandering fingers on the root notes (as well as play diverse bass lines) is hard, almost impossible, to find.

Just like GOOD singers.

When you do find one though, it's another day in paradise!

There IS a shortage of Bassists... no shortage of people who own a bass rig and point out the notes on the instrument with one finger at a time.

But I also agree there is a shortage of good bands worth a true bassist's time.

That being said you can almost say the same thing about every instrument. One on my mind right at the moment... a shortage of Keyboard players. That's really too general of a description because the chick at the church does a fine job on her material... but I wouldn't ask her to audition for our Classic Rock band.

Then we add the filters:
I'd like them to be multi instrumental... play some Harmonica, maybe some light acoustic stuff...

I'd also like them to be "Tasteful" as in several folks I have worked with in the past just play play play, no matter how many times the Keys drop our here or there... the Keyboardist is wide open thru the whole song. Some songs have no Keys... but those aforementioned players "Wrote parts" so they wouldn't be left out of a song, not acceptable.

I need them to have quality gear.

I need them to be dependable and relatively drug free.

And other filters as well... but just using those has eliminated everyone in my local area.

So that's what there is truly a shortage of... folks who take it seriously enough.

Kramer, Jack Bruce played lead bass, as did John Entwistle. Both great players who made their bands stand out. So I think it has an application in the right setting. The problem is, most bass players aren't good enough to play lead bass and keep the rhythm tight.

I like the keyboardists who always use the 1980's Casiotone horn sound on every song, & then tell me they'll need more money to play a simple piano sound. I actually played with one of those guys - ONCE.

As a bassist, I haven't seen too many bands that interest me enough to want to join up. I've been saying that I'll play just about anything to play, but in truth, I'm not all that into 70's rock anymore...or 80's, for that matter...& most of the bands that play newer stuff are playing pure crap...guess I'll stick with the rockabilly/country/odd rock that I've been doing for so long, cuz at least ppl seem to enjoy it, & it's what I've been doing for so long.

I would like to get back into the jam band stuff, though. That was fun.

Kramer, Jack Bruce played lead bass, as did John Entwistle. Both great players who made their bands stand out. So I think it has an application in the right setting. The problem is, most bass players aren't good enough to play lead bass and keep the rhythm tight.

Point taken, and I do realize that the right 'aggressive' bassist in the right band is great. Lots of blues and jazz bass lines are extremely aggressive while at the same time can hold amazing rhythms.

But one of my favs - John Paul Jones- could play VERY aggressive bass, but could also play 4/4 A, A, A, AA all the way thru a song without having to throw in a bass solo.

It's all about what the song calls for. I was just pointing out that many bassists and drummers (hell, guitarists too) seem to completely miss that.

Of the people who DO gravitate to it, many realize that the bass is NOT a lead instrument, and take up guitar instead, or play "lead bass". IMO "lead bass" is the WORST thing that can happen to a band, right up there with the "lead drummer". Both are part of the rhythm section, and when they are doing leads, who is holding the rhythm?

LOL... you are so right on Kramer.

We had to boot our drummer a few months ago because of "Lead Drummer" syndrome. We had to boot our bassist shortly thereafter for the same reason: "Lead Bassist" syndrome.

I'm happy though - we have a great pocket groove bassist now and a capable drummer without an attitude.

I think the problem of finding bands who have their act together and musicians who are willing to work with everyone else in the band, even when it's a bit boring, is pretty universal.

As an organ player in a 7 piece soul/reggae act, we all have to be careful not to step on each other's toes. It'd be a whole lot of irritating noise if everyone played to their heart's content all the time. We do our best to give people solos to keep them from getting bored, but the fact of the matter is that you have to remember to be happy that you're adding to the overall sound instead of getting big-head musician-esque and wanting to noodle. I mean we all claim that we're just in it to make music at the end of the day, right?

We did have a bit of trouble finding a bassist who was content to stick to the root notes and not go off on crazy tangents all the time, but now that we have one all is well. And it wasn't hard at all for us to find one, mostly because we have our act together, have an EP and a tour planned, gig regularly, etc.

Well managed bands attract good, committed musicians. Weekend rock stars are the ones who are under the impression that bassist/drummers/keyboardists/rhythm guitarists are impossible to find. Just my opinion.

There's no doubt that much I've heard about finding players is a total myth. I think if folks relaxed expectancy and replaced that with patience there may be a good few many good bands more on many circuits. Just my take of course.

Weekend rock stars are the ones who are under the impression that bassist/drummers/keyboardists/rhythm guitarists are impossible to find.

At least us weekend warriors have music on our players. Are you just here to brag?

that last sentence was a little harsh janna

Not sure who it's aimed at, but even weekend player wants a competent band to play with, which includes the rhythm section.

I played rhythm guitar for 20+ years. I only started soloing out of necessity a few years ago. I was always the last person in the band to be discontent with my role as part of the rhythm section. a GOOD bass player is quite difficult to find, but certainly not impossible.

Okay, so, like any good rant, my rant contained a bit of hyperbole. Okay, a lot of hyperbole. And I exaggerated as well.

I think, though, several people have made the point that the problem, really is disparate expectations. Which was kind of my point.

But, I disagree with one point made repeatedly in this thread. Well, sort of.

If the song needs me to sit on the root, I'll sit on the root. No problem. If every song in the band's repertoire needs me to sit on the root, I'm outta there. I don't need to "noodle" (and, BTW, define "noodle"), but I want some meaty, funky bass lines to play. Something with a little groove behind it.

I'm sure you're having a great time ripping through that lead on Old Time Rock-n-Roll, but twenty minutes in I'm ready to move on to something - anything - else. (And, yes, I have played with guitarists who turned that song into a twenty minute marathon.)

Moreover, I want to play songs that get the audience up, moving and involved. That slow blues marathon you love is really exciting to both of the people who haven't left yet, but the people across the street dancing to that band which actually plays music people like are having way more fun.

Bass is not a lead instrument, but that doesn't justify relegating it to a wholly background role. A good bass line lays down the overall groove over the foundation the drums provide. That overall groove provides the fabric the melodic instruments use to weave the tapestry of the song. Sometimes the overall groove is simple pedal notes on the one. Often it's more than that.

like I said - JPJ, great bassist who wouldn't be typecast into a lead or rhythm player.

I don't think we're disagreeing here.

Hey Hey watch it there Janna Im a weekend rock star.

I dont find any shortage of "players" just a shortage of "musicains"!