General Music Chat

Phil,

You are WRONG about so many things in that last response, it is hard to even quantify. And I'm not sure I should even begin to dismantle it, if you cannot even follow the simple logic... That your position falls apart, when held up against OTHER EXAMPLES.

YOU CANNOT use "nature" to rationalize SEX FOR ENTERTAINMENT, if you do not also use it to rationalize RAPE, PUBLIC DEFICATION, MURDER, etc...

This is the most basic logic there is.

If you cannot understand that point.

What can be said to that?

God gave you a brain. Use it or don't use it.

I don't think you understand the concept as well as you may think you do, Iain. It's happening as we speak. It's necessity, for the most part, that create changes, & we are creating more & more need to change as we continue to complicate our lives.

As oxygen levels are reduced, we must either evolve to use what's left more efficiently, for example. The oxygen levels have significantly been reduced since the age of the dinosaur, & we have evolved to handle those lower levels.

When you start tweaking hormones & such, as we have been for the last century, things are bound to change at a very rapid pace, or the species will simply die out.

Craig, as usual, your tendency to dump erroneous & superfluous info into the equation & call it a justifiable analogy makes it difficult to have a rational conversation with you.

We, as everything else in the universe is evolving at the steady rate it always has, it's not accelerated evolution, it's just plain ol' normal evolution, i'm not getting involved in the rest of the argument, just pulling you up on that one point

Craig, bonobo monkeys....

i think you two should have a fight.

sh*t i'm funny sometimes....

Craig, bonobo monkeys....

Bingo!

Thanks!

Craig, as usual, your tendency to dump erroneous & superfluous info into the equation & call it a justifiable analogy makes it difficult to have a rational conversation with you.

Phil, while it is enjoyable to see you using terms like... "erroneous" and "superfluous"... unfortunately, the insertion of a few four-syllable words, does not replace an actual ARGUMENT. Nor does it replace actual FACTS, which are generally useful to back the argument up with.

Just a couple of quick points:

1) environmental stimulii do not cause or prevent evolution or modify the rate of evolution. For example, giraffes do not have long necks because their ancestors had to stretch them to reach the highest tree branches. Rather, over millions of years the giraffe ancestors who had longer necks from random mutations were favored by evolution, since they could reach food sources their short necked cousins could not.

2) since we are simply intelligent primates we still have the biological urges of these animals. However, due to this intelligence we have the ability to know the difference between right and wrong (morality) and can therefore repress our urges. Well some of us anyway.

In order to have discourse on any given subject, sticking to the subject is useful, would you not agree? I in no way condoned rape or violence in my lil essay, yet you found it necessary to dump it in there & call it tantamount to the same subject. NOT!

I am speaking of the removal of all that is male from our society, & you're speaking of defecating in the streets. Odd, that.

In no way have I said that we should revert to primitive behaviors, either. Stop putting words in my mouth that don't taste good to me! It's unsanitary.

What I SAID was, the trends that we are experiencing are erasing the differences in the sexes, both in a societal way, & a very physical one.

By encouraging women to mate with the sissified male, we are in fact pushing the species in new evolutionary directions, likewise when we encourage males to mate with more masculine females. Now combine this with the effects of pollution & females hormones in our food...where will the male of the future be? Will he even exist, or will we only procreate through test tubes?

Point missed, the fact we can do these things is a part of OUR evolution, we are neither separate from, above or in control of it, we work with what nature gave us through evolution. Again, we are capable only of what nature allows, yes we can stretch our necks and if everyone did for ages sure it would probably start to to work it's way naturally into our genetic make-up (maybe), but this is not controlling evolution, our ability to choose to do that is a RESULT of evolution, as will every evolutionary change in our bodies will continue to be.
try this: Nuclear bombs are a natural phenomenon... a mere by-product...

Oh, I agree completely, Iain. There is nothing that we can do that could be construed to be "unnatural," since we are in fact "natural beings."

However, I can certainly see us as a species heading in what I consider to be wrong directions, & do what little I can to help us change to a better path, imo.

sorry mate, there's no right or wrong either, human concept, irrelevant in terms of evolution. nature doesn't CARE. only we do...

Exactly, Iain! I CARE, dammit!

Chill phil, you'll be long gone... ha ha...