Bands And Albums.

First, to my main man across the pond:

Ooo, ooo! Am I second!? Am I second!?

Of course you're second!

Next, to my phrail guitar player from NC,

Phrailguitarist,

Don't get too worked up; just having some fun...

I apologize for misinterpreting your apparent unique usage of "or" in the following excerpt from a previous post of yours

Apology accepted. It doesn't make a difference anyway. Whether speaking of Lennon and McCartney separately or together, they were still a part of the Beatles and had prolific solo careers.

Quote:
That hasn't happened again - and, listen closely, Phrail, we're talking about Pop and Rock and Roll here, not the entire history of music dating back to the dawn of man.

Phrailguitarist:
Oops, I take that back; maybe you didn't correctly interpret what I said. Shame.

I was making a point by exaggerating your statement to encompass the entire history of music.

Actually, I assumed by your statement from a previous post

You should stop that assuming thing you do.

If that isn't agreeing with critics, then I'm not quite sure what is. Wow, so far, you're a real winner when it comes to saying something that APPEARS to be quite clear and concise yet, when you're challenged, all of a sudden, there was some sort of hidden meaning someone such as me failed to catch. Again, I apologize if I took that whole paragraph out of context but I pretty much thought it spoke for itself.

The 'winner' comment was cliche (by the way). Yes, the 'post 1966' sentence is misleading - that is what critics say. My last sentence should have been clear enough:

I don't spend my time analyzing current music so I can trace it back to the Beatles but I do know that they led almost every innovation in pop music in the '60s.

I've always maintained that.

I meant 'genius' quite literally when I said there was a definition for it. I suppose that since your posts are littered with hidden meanings where one should "look deeper," you in turn searched for the very same in mine. I apologize for being literal, my friend.

Of course there's an actual definition of genius; I happen to agree with your personal view of 'genius' - that it differs from person to person. But everybody interprets words and definitions differently to make sense in their own mind. So there isn't a universal definition for genius - just yours, and mine, and everyone else's interpretation of it. My posts aren't scattered with hidden meaning, they're quite clear, but thanks for the compliment. And, once again, apology accepted.

I simply meant that my definition of 'genius', or who I would personally consider to be a genius, mind you, differs from yours. I ranted on such a topic due to your following statement:
Quote:
I'm a songwriter and I find the Beatles' work, especially on Sgt. Pepper, to be quite genius.

I'm not disagreeing...

Kinda funny how the clear and concise points of what I wrote about actually make a little sense, there, huh?

They do when you aren't ambiguous, Stephan.

In a second, I'll demonstrate once more how I made statements based off of your very own words; not assumptions. I'll get to your comment on the music I listen to in a second as well, Mr. Well-Rounded Musician!

Stephan! You've already stated that you're making assumptions... don't try to turn it around now! And thank you.

Please, SDavis22, call me Stephen! Phrail doesn't offend me, though, if you've been attempting to use it in some sort of witty manner thus far. You wouldn't do that though, would you? Naaaaaah. Between die-hard fans and critics alike stating how the Beatles have influenced all music to date in some sort of way, I figured I would display exactly what such a statement would reflect by exaggerating two extremely opposite genres. Well... I guess the music that one considers to "suck" is the exception to the rule of influence, huh? Brilliant! See, these debates always clarify so much for me! Double-standards and hypocrites, oh my! (There, I figured you'd enjoy yet another cliche courtesy of yours truly)

Nice sarcasm; how vernacularly modern! And what rule of influence? Now that's a prime example of fluff! You don't know what genres I listen to or what it is that I consider to 'suck' (or if I do think so at all). Assuming things may make up 'double standards and hypocrites' in your head but your perception is unique and, unfortunately, incorrect. And yes, that was a really bad, cliche joke you made!

you have nothing but TRULY ignorant and intolerant things to say about some of the music I listen to which I enjoy. Would you like to see how ignorant your statement truly appears? Here, let me show you:

Quote:
I listen to a lot of music as well (except for sub-par groups like The Beatles). I don't think Sevendust or POD get more credit than they deserve - in what way do you personally think they get more credit than deserved?

Apology accepted, and yes, Sevendust or POD.

What's laughable is that you didn't make a point at all. And please, no more emoticons... they're so effeminate! Sevendust amd POD play Rock music and when compared to groups like the Beatles are very sub par in my opinion. I didn't say they sucked - just not up to par in the Rock genre, you get it? I'm definitely fan of the Beatles but I'm not trying to protect the critics' claim that their Sgt. Pepper record is the most influential ever made.

Your list of influences doesn't cover very much ground, Stephan. I'm not impressed at all by it, actually. If you want to prove something then list every bit of music you like - but you won't do that and neither will I. Influences only cover a small area of one's musical taste or tolerance (hopefully). My list of influences isn't nearly the 'alpha and omega' of what I like and listen to.

Again, this is the product of my lack of clarification. I meant to generalize instead of 'speak' directly to you. Also, I was referencing "critics" as in, the very same "critics" you defined in your opening post and later referenced generally. I was under the impression that you would understand your own terminology but here again, I've grossly misinterpreted you. Sad For your convenient reference:

Quote:
...is considered by most rock critics and pop historians...


Quote:
If it's music writers and critics...


If you haven't read deep enough into my response thus far, I'm essentially making this as ridiculous as you made your response. I suppose you had to up your usage of English vocabulary to better defend your musical vocabulary which I've so wrongfully assumed otherwise of, huh? I suppose you're expecting someone to gather the fact that you're 22 years of age, you have this faux cleverness that only seems to come out when you deem necessary and that you're to be somehow acknowledged for your defiance against music of your generation! Well, here's to you, sir! I think we should all recognize this wonderful chap for his capacity to outwit, overachieve and turn his back to all he was FORCED to grow up with! (Erm, in regards to music, that is)

If you don't understand someone's words then it's better to ask than assume (I can't reiterate that enough - you'll get it eventually). What about 'critics' do you need me to clarify so this is easier for you? And I thought you didn't go deeper than writing literally? You won't run into dead ends so often if you stop switching personalities. Faux cleverness? If you find me clever than leave it at that, Steph! Your reaction is unconscionable but satisfying nonetheless. You're just so positively modern! But please, no emphasizing words... remember: we got it!

Once more, I apologize for not understanding you meant 'and' when you said 'or'. You sure are a tricky one with making us read a little deeper into what you have to say! WOWZERS! Shocked Anyway, I don't know you enough to speculate on where your 'musical ceiling' has been set? Why do I have to know you much more than the posts I've read from you, collectively, across this whole forum to SPECULATE? Oh, oh, I get it... this must be another one of those 'or'/'and' deeper-meaning deals, right?

You DO have a profile on band mix, don't you? And on that profile, you have a brief list of what listed under your influences? (Of which I enjoy a number of the musicians you listed) Speculation on my behalf, HA! "Amigo," you sure hit the nail on the head with that one!

Once again, your apology is accepted. You don't have to read deeper into my words than is necessary. Just remember that people interpret and perceive things differently and asking leads to understanding whereas assuming leads to misunderstanding. It's quite simple, Phrail! And that's very flattering that you researched me (not to mention creepy) but I've never made clear in any post where my 'musical ceiling has been set'. Calling something a 'deal' is cliche too. You should have realized before making the above statement that, as I said earlier, our brief lists of influences on this site is no way indicative of what we listen to entirely.

Your attempt at being witty was overwhelmed by your success in being an ass.

Apology accepted, and yes, 'PhrAiL' as in 'KoRn'. Mr. Obvious, everyone - he'll be here all night! Laughing Thanks for clarifying even furthermore my "speculations" of your 'musical ceiling' by presenting to me everything you have thus far that you DON'T listen to. Boy, what was speculation before sure does seem to be clearing right up, now! Very Happy

Haha I can totally see the word 'ass' leaving your goatee! You're hopelessly modern! What you don't seem to understand is that entitling yourself 'phrail' as in 'korn' is yet another dimwitted cliche!

And thanks; I will absolutely have a nice day despite your best efforts to bring me down. I enjoy the intellectual banter you offer and I encourage you to continue giving me the ammunition I need to speak volumes of your character where it may not be so blatantly obvious to others. Regardless of what I think about you as a person, I still feel exactly as I felt pre- this post where the Beatles are concerned. I find value in the music you say you enjoy but I don't find direct influence. I'm sorry to see that you don't feel similar in any way, shape or form regarding a select few bands you listed but we can't all have the extensive 'musical ceiling' you allude to having. You're right, I don't know you one bit and everything I've said is based on solely assumption instead of what I thought was a clear understanding of every word you've said thus far.

If you really want to do this with me, SDavis22, you go right ahead. I tried to keep it relatively non-personal and professional in my opinions. I may have rubbed you the wrong way thus far but it was not my intention to say something that was to be misconstrued by you and taken personally to then start insulting me and being a little smartass. I'm all for debate but your last reply shows you can't eloquently handle it without taking cheap shots and becoming demeaning. It's not above me to play your game and you seem to be assuming a hell of a lot more about me than I EVER did of you up until now, so by all means... The ball's in your court now. (Yet another fantastic cliche for you)

Wait. It just occured to me that I may have misinterpreted the demeanor of your previous message. If so, please start clarifying your exact intentions. Beating around the bush tends to lead to these types of conclusions. The internet can lack personality but you knew that, right? I hope I've not confused you at all in this post of mine. I've done the best I can with the tools at my disposal to ensure my words aren't lost in translation for you.

Hopefully I'm not bringing you down, Stephan - you're not bringing me down either. Seeing as there are misinterpretations in perceiving and assuming we'll keep providing ammunition. We'll both provide the cannonballs and the canon; and every so often just the balls. You don't know me enough to judge my character (and doing so from internet postings is paradoxical) and even if you could it wouldn't matter to me because you're a very, very, very insignificant person in my life. It's completely up to you how you react to someone or if you become offended - that's not my problem. And calling me 'a little smartass' doesn't work - we're both pretty much in the same age group, tough guy! I haven't assumed anything about you because assuming things is a moronic game that I don't play. And thanks for the last cliche (I hope it is the last - you don't want to be known as a cliche artist do you?). My demeanor is whatever you make of it (this is an impersonal thing we're typing on - again, how modern!).

Just for fun:

You're right, I don't know you one bit and everything I've said is based on solely assumption...

This debate wouldn't have even happened if you didn't assume that I agree with critics that the Beatles are the best Rock band and their record Sgt. Pepper is the most influential album every made - because I don't. Doesn't this seem juvenile and unimportant to you? It definitely does to me - but it's also fun.

I imagine I'll be hearing from you shortly!

Phrailguitarist,

SDavis22: I forgot to mention that your lumping together of Sevendust, POD and Meshuggah shows your ignorance and yes, 'musical ceiling'. It's like me lumping together the Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Van Halen. My, my, my, how well-rounded you certainly are!

I didn't 'lump' those groups together, I simply selected them from your list of influences. Why would you lump the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Van Halen together? Sevendust, POD, and Meshuggah aren't necessarily my musical 'ceiling' so much as they definitely are the floor. Haha listening to Alternative/Metal makes one a well-rounded music lover? Hahaha...

MrMikeV,

I can dig a lot of your analysis - I'll go into that a little more when I have time. Thank you for the compliments as well, though it will probably take my posting a song to prove my understanding of theory and the guitar itself. Anyway, thanks for appointing yourself the referee... That does mean we don't have to pay you, correct?

I've nothing further to contribute to this debacle of a debate in this manner. We could both clearly go back and forth like this for ages but you completely lost my interest with your sarcastic attaining of a sense of pride from just about every blatantly sarcastic point I made. What a lackluster and helplessly boring strategy but in the event that someone takes you serious, here's to your facade of looking like a champ. Sans said lackluster and helplessly boring strategy, your post is of little substance both to me and where the topic of this thread is concerned as was my reply before yours. I can't say I'm having as much fun at this point as you seem to be having, either... I probably would have when I was your age, though. I don't mean that sarcastically, either. I mean that for where I was at, mentally, when I was 22.

Shall we try this again without your cute little nicknames and self-righteous banter? Everyone can see you've taken enough digs at me thus far to merit not having to repeat as such. I'd like to engage you in some truly intellectual and beneficial conversation this time as opposed to a battle of the wits which I find to be easily boring and ultimately a waste of time these days. Keep doing this at the rate you seem to be and you may find the same to be true. Anyway...

-Stephen

Phrailguitarist,

SDavis22: I forgot to mention that your lumping together of Sevendust, POD and Meshuggah shows your ignorance and yes, 'musical ceiling'. It's like me lumping together the Beatles, Led Zeppelin and Van Halen. My, my, my, how well-rounded you certainly are!

I didn't 'lump' those groups together, I simply selected them from your list of influences. Why would you lump the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Van Halen together? Sevendust, POD, and Meshuggah aren't necessarily my musical 'ceiling' so much as they definitely are the floor. Haha listening to Alternative/Metal makes one a well-rounded music lover? Hahaha...

You completely missed my point. I lumped them together because those are as random of a selection as the 3 bands you chose. They fall under different genres of rock and are incredibly different, as are the three I lumped together for your reference. And no, listening to alternative/hard rock/metal in and of itself doesn't make one a well-rounded music lover but NOT listening to it surely doesn't contribute to it, either. Again, the difference here seems to be that I listen to and have a respectful understanding of the music you've listed in your profile, including the Beatles, as well as every other genre of music I've heard thus far. I respect your opinion that you think bands like Korn are crap but it must really chap your hyde to know that they are also considered to be musical pioneers of a genre. Just as I do with the Beatles, I can see where they were influential but likewise, I don't think they're anywhere near as great as supportive critics give them credit for.

It just seems to me that you're not even willing to give modern music an attempt. That's the main point I'm trying to get across here, so instead of assuming, I'm going to ask you if there are any bands within the hard rock or heavy metal genre that you enjoy, much less, respect. Songs to reference your opinions from would be helpful as well.

And wait... you selected those three from my list of influences before my previous reply, right? Oh, well... Touche with the sarcastic 'creepy' remark you made, then. =)

-Stephen

afa referee... just send a check via mail.

afa you posting... I really don't mean to sound condesceding (although I love the descendants' music)... I'm sure you have some gtr skills... but based on our conversations... I am guessing that you aren't a michael angelo (yes the guitarist not the painter)... I would base that on several things not limited to but including the fact that you often site musicians that are'nt great "virtuosos" and often have a negative tone regarding metal. Nothing wrong with that... sev of my favs can't play gtr all that great (john hiatt - tom waitts to name a few). We don't need a world full of technically great gtr players... we need some john lennon/bob dylans to compensate for all the srv/steve vais out there. I'm sure what you lack in gtr skill you make up for in lyrical/songwriting/voice/depth... etc. Again, I'm not being condescending... just analyzing. I've never heard you mention steve vai/joe satriani/steve lukather/steve morse etc... these are key players that would key me off to you being into gtr virtuosity...(not that I am a virtuoso... just analyzing). Am I wrong? I'm guessing there's still time for you to develop in this direction if you wanted to... but I'm guessing you are more into other aspects of music and that this particular one is of a diminished importance to you. If I am wrong I'll be happy to admit it... can you play as 'technically' as me? (I would consider myself moderately technical)
anyway... feel free to absorb and come after my assertions about the beatles popularity - it feels pretty iron-clad right now... but I am always open to something I have overlooked.
thanks
mv

Oh, and do you care to listen to a musician who I consider to be as genius as you consider Lennon/McCartney to be? Daniel Johns from Silverchair. His progression as a musician is just absolutely incredible. Some of you may say "[p]sh, Silverchair? Yeah right." Listen to the album Diorama. A few highlights of the album are the songs Tuna in the Brine, My Favorite Thing, and After All These Years. I'm sure you'll disagree, SDavis22 but I really would appreciate you at least giving those songs a listen. You may be surprised... And actually, their latest CD, Young Modern, may or may not be something you enjoy as well. I look forward to what you have to say about them. This isn't the same hardrock Silverchair they were in their early days, by the way.

-Stephen

Phrailguitarist,

I knew you'd be waiting for my response! Well, you may have found my 'strategy' boring and lackluster but, as you pinpointed, I was matching your uninspired rebuttals to my posts. So please, save the word lackluster for your cliches. It's a shame you lost interest though; your thoughtful tangents based on assumptions and misinterpretations livened up this forum for me. I suppose I should take something away from you calling me a champ, even if you had to call it a facade - so thank you. And don't allude to my age or mental state - you're not much older than I am. Doing so just implies superiority which I'm not willing to accept from you at this point. I still don't get a sense of your 'point' by lumping three random bands together. I simply chose three groups from your influences that I find to be sub-par. You clearly disagree as you enjoy these groups. I do like some Alternative/Metal - surprised? Certainly not the groups you've listed (or the ones I took from your influences). I never said korn was crap (another assumption) and, yes, I do know they pioneered the genre in the '90s. I used to like them in grade school and can still admit that their first record is quite original (tasteless, but original). Another assumption you almost made is that I'm not willing to give modern music a listen. I'm always listening to modern music simply to find something that appeals to me - it doesn't happen often, but it happens. I do think Rock and Roll was better in the past in many ways, but the music is definitely changing. Oh, and clicking on ones profile is way less creepy than researching ones history - way less! And your just as guilty of self-righteous banter as I am; though I take the lead in cute nicknames and you in cliche use. Although I did find slight elation in our exchange, it is rather annoying and a complete waste of time. If you truly do want to engage in intellectual and beneficial conversation then I'm up for it. You can start the topic and I'll follow suit. I do think it should begin in a new thread... let's respect Sgt. Pepper (especially since its 40th birthday just recently passed) and end this here. Start a new thread and call it Banter Free, or something else, and I'll be there for whatever you want to talk about. If not, that's ok...

MrMikeV,

It's true that I don't often cite guitar virtuosos in my posts. It's also true that I haven't engaged in any 'Who's the greatest guitar god ever' threads either. I do love virtuoso musicians, wherever they're found, but they don't influence my playing. In music, I care more about the idea, art, and coherent whole of a piece - not an individual musician's playing skill. It's true that I'm not an intricate/virtuoso soloist, hence my wanting to collaborate with a lead guitarist, but I do enjoy writing songs with difficult chord progressions. I would need to hear you play in order to decide if you're more technical than myself. I don't recall the two songs I have heard but would be glad to listen to whatever of yours you'd like me to hear. I suppose I would consider myself moderately technical as well simply because I play Robert Johnson-style Delta Blues.

Maccy, you know I can analyze just as well as the next chap... I try to understand music though; that's why I wouldn't call a musical excursion like Sgt. Pepper crap even if I disliked it. Remember: it's not crap simply because you don't like it!

I think it is crap and I think your wrong!

Then you do listen to critics! How lovely!

No the intyerviews I am talking about were with the musicians not the critics. Critics are wankers!

Critics trace much of pop music post mid-60s back to the Beatles' work. As I said before, I don't spend my time tracing modern music back to the Beatles but I do know that they were responsible for most of the innovations made to pop during the Rock era.

Once again you rely on critics to tell you what is good and what isn't, how sad you can't decide for yourself. Critics are like agents, Blots on the landscape of music, they should all be removed with a scalpel. Most of the Beatles influenced pop music is extremly dull and generally boring.

There is a difference between saying you dislike something and calling it crap. Would you feel more comfortable telling Paul McCartney you never got into the Beatles or that you think his work with them is crap? He might expect you to show him up if you chose the latter.

No there is no difference, I think it is crap whether you agree with me or not. And yes I would be quite happy telling that ridiculous scouser that he is garbage. His music since the beatles split up has verged on pathetic.

That's all this is about, really...

No my songs are crap. Well I think so anyway. And as you will know if you are a songwriter no matter what other people think of your songs, if you are not happy with them yourself then you never will be.

I concur![/quote]

Hey davis,

then I was pretty close to right on with my assertions that the gtr takes a back seat to the song (in your mind).
I have much love for robert johnson tho... he had a way of hearing the rythm different than others - I loved that about him... def a virtuoso there.

"I went down to the crossroads... trying to flag a ride...
aint no body seem to know me - everybody pass me by"
Clapton recorded that song as a tribute to robert (though I hate clapton... I like that song).

have you ever watched the movie "crossroads"? I'ts a ficticious movie about robert johnson and blind dog fulton - and how they both made a deal with the devil. It stars ralph machio(spelling).
There is a ton of delta blues - style gtr work in that movie... all done by this centuries greatest slide player (IMO): ry cooder. Ry is great if you haven't heard him. He now plays with one of my favs: john hiatt. The movie features a showdown at the devils "clubhouse" where ralph(ry cooder) cuts heads with steve vai. And I can't even tell you how many hours I spent trying to learn ralph machios final showdown part... it is a classical piece written by steve vai that is phonomenal.
The overall story is really a metaphor describing how a musician who decides to pursue music - really gives up everything else in life... and such "makes a deal with the devil".

"I would need to hear you play in order to decide if you're more technical than myself." ahh, that's not the point... although I would welcome you to visit my myspace page and listen and comment. You've allready heard two songs: shithouse blues (can you feel the slide?) and the other was just a little scratch pad idea I was goofing off with... it onlyl had bass not 6string. Check out a song like riverboat, london echoes, the groove... keeping in mind that my best work isn't on the net....... yet.


BTW I wan't to engage in intellectual topics! How many numbers between 0 and 2000 have the number 2 in them? Prove that there are infinately many prime numbers... etc etc.
Anywho, I'm probably throwing your rythm off by interjecting... carry-on.

Certainly not the groups you've listed (or the ones I took from your influences).

Really? Hmm... And just how many of the bands I have listed have you actually heard? I figured I would try asking before assuming the obvious.

-Stephen

MrMikeV,

It is true that I look for coherence in song, not the individual musician's dexterity, when listening to music.

Why do you hate Clapton? I personally like just about everything he's done from the Yarbirds, John Mayall Bluesbreakers, Cream, Blind Faith, Derik & the Dominos...

I haven't seen that movie but it definitely sounds interesting. I'll look for it next time I'm at a video store. And Ry Cooder is amazing, I enjoy his style... and John Hiatt's. That scene you described does sound intriguing - I can't wait to see that!

Honestly, I would have to hear you play in order to figure out if you're more technical than myself. I really can't remember 'Shithouse Blues' or the other one; I'll definitely listen to your songs on your web pages and get back to you on that though. Whether one of us is more technical than the other really doesn't matter to me personally... You might look for that in song but I look for songwriting skill...

And you weren't serious with the mathematical coda to your last post were you? Just checking...

Phrailguitarist,

Assuming the obvious? You're so smug/supercilious! Assume = bad.

But to answer your question:

I have heard: Textures (good musicians but sum of parts better than whole), Seal, Yanni, Sting, Steve Vai, Fabrizio Leo (the record Cutaway), Meshuggah (good musicians but lame, aggressive music), P.O.D. (very lame, in my opinion - and sub par musically), Ra (very sub par), Nobuo Uematsu (haha video game music! Really? Let me guess, you play Final Fantasy...), Symphony X (good musicans but, again, sum of parts better than whole - if I want real classical music I know where to find it), Dream Theater (good musicians, good albums, doesn't appeal to me though), Rush (good musicians, good songs, a couple of good records - worth a greatest hits), Sikth (what's the big deal here?), Ankla (lame - aggressive trash), Puya (supremely sub par), Dark New Day (who cares? sub par...), Sevendust (gag), and Silverchair (used to love their first two records, Frogstomp and Freakshow, but haven't listened to them in years.

I have not heard: Tesseract, Chronicles of Israfel (Dominic Cifarelli), Bumblefoot, Scott Mishoe, DJ Noumenon, Periphery (Bulb), and Divine Heresy (I can just imagine how aggressively cliche this band is just from the title).

I used to think Daniel Johns was an accelerated songwriter for his age but I don't know about that anymore - I mean I used to listen to them when I was much, much younger. I'll have to download whatever it was you asked me to download to give you my definite opinion...

Hopefully you like some other genres of music... Your small list of influences doesn't prove you are well rounded but in fact proves the opposite. Some of the groups you listed are so sub par I don't know if I can take your opinions on or tastes in music seriously - but, different strokes I guess... Based on your influences, I would probably not like your own music but who knows... I haven't listened to the music on your profile but if you'd like me to I'd be happy to oblige.

Jesus! I'm sick of people listing those same or similar groups only to act like they deserve some kind of music-related respect for it! And don't tell me you dig P.O.D. because you're a die hard Christian, I won't be able to contain myself...

You're so smug/supercilious!

The pot calling the kettle black, anyone? Whoops! Another cliche! Save "supercilious" for your self-flattery:

Oh, and clicking on ones profile is way less creepy than researching ones history - way less!

Researching one's history? HA! I'd love to tell you that you mattered to me that much but alas, I'd been trolling bandmix for quite awhile before our frivilous little tit-for-tat began. Don't let me down with a sub-par snide remark to this, by the way!

But to answer your question:

I have heard: Textures (good musicians but sum of parts better than whole), Seal, Yanni, Sting, Steve Vai, Fabrizio Leo (the record Cutaway), Meshuggah (good musicians but lame, aggressive music), P.O.D. (very lame, in my opinion - and sub par musically), Ra (very sub par), Nobuo Uematsu (haha video game music! Really? Let me guess, you play Final Fantasy...), Symphony X (good musicans but, again, sum of parts better than whole - if I want real classical music I know where to find it), Dream Theater (good musicians, good albums, doesn't appeal to me though), Rush (good musicians, good songs, a couple of good records - worth a greatest hits), Sikth (what's the big deal here?), Ankla (lame - aggressive trash), Puya (supremely sub par), Dark New Day (who cares? sub par...), Sevendust (gag), and Silverchair (used to love their first two records, Frogstomp and Freakshow, but haven't listened to them in years.

Quite frankly, I find it highly unrealistic that you've given a few of these bands a listen to even song 1 prior to my list but I won't fully assume that you haven't. The fact that you relate Nobuo Uematsu only to video game music shows your complete lack of exposure and willingness to go outside of your little rock and roll box. Hey man, we like what we like and there's nothing wrong with that but your supposed "well-roundedness" as a musician flees you just about everytime you post. I'll give it to you that you know your stuff when it comes to the rock and roll era you associate yourself the most with! You are definitely more knowledgeable than me by leaps and bounds when it comes to the history of bands such as the Beatles. I'm not as passionate about that era as you are nor are you passionate about the current era of music as I am. There's not a thing in the world wrong with that.

I have not heard: Tesseract, Chronicles of Israfel (Dominic Cifarelli), Bumblefoot, Scott Mishoe, DJ Noumenon, Periphery (Bulb), and Divine Heresy (I can just imagine how aggressively cliche this band is just from the title).

Don't worry about it. It's clear that the majority of the bands on that list are outside of your scope of enjoyment. Calling Divine Heresy "aggressively cliche" is like calling any band of any other genre "cliche" solely because they play within that genre. It seems as though you think of most anything remotely heavy as cliche. I would say that your perspective leaves you missing out on a lot of good music but if you're content with your current musical scope of enjoyment, then I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. I just have to trust that you're telling the truth when you say you're as open-minded as you are.

I used to think Daniel Johns was an accelerated songwriter for his age but I don't know about that anymore - I mean I used to listen to them when I was much, much younger. I'll have to download whatever it was you asked me to download to give you my definite opinion...

As I said, the Silverchair of today is absolutely nothing like the Silverchair you are referencing. I still enjoy their older music as well but if nothing else, I really think you may find some enjoyment in their recent music. I won't fully assume as much, though.

Hopefully you like some other genres of music... Your small list of influences doesn't prove you are well rounded but in fact proves the opposite. Some of the groups you listed are so sub par I don't know if I can take your opinions on or tastes in music seriously

Funny, I've been thinking the exact same thing about you this whole time regarding your well-roundedness as a musician. Your affirmation of my opinions is irrelevent to me, though I would like to think you could see beyond your sarcastic wit to agree with me on a few things and share common opinion. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why it is that I enjoy every single bit of the music you've listed as your influences as well as the Beatles and more than likely, a majority of other artists you may list yet you don't seem to share a similar perspective. Who am I kidding, though? Why should I even care about what you think? I care to a degree because, regardless of personality clash, I see you as a fellow musician and music of all genres influences me. As you said before, neither of us are going to list every freaking influence we have. The people I listed are the bands you can find currently on my iPod. Have a seat in my computer chair, though, and you'll find a plethora of artists from every single genre out there sans obviously obscure genres, in which case, I'd gladly give a chance once presented to me.

I've been saying to you just about this whole time how I like the music you seem to like. No, I don't know everything you like but you're assuming (uh oh, I really must be rubbing off on you) I'm not well-rounded simply because of what I have listed as influences. Wow, when I assumed the same thing, you hypocritically blasted me. Interesting. We're all human here, so let's cut the assumption-blasting crap. I've chosen not to point out the places you've made assumptions thus far for the sake of a shorter arguement.

- but, different strokes I guess...

Uh oh... Is that what I think it is?

Based on your influences, I would probably not like your own music but who knows... I haven't listened to the music on your profile but if you'd like me to I'd be happy to oblige.

You're probably right but you never know. At least you're willing to give it a listen and not fully assume. I feel the opposite about your music; I'm actually looking forward to the song you have to post soon. It might actually be quite decent, I'm assuming, but if your opinion of my lack of human perfection with assuming in addition to your assumptions of my musical opinion due to a small list of influences bothers you so much, then I'd be happy to oblige your preference of my listening to your music or not.

Jesus! I'm sick of people listing those same or similar groups only to act like they deserve some kind of music-related respect for it! And don't tell me you dig P.O.D. because you're a die hard Christian, I won't be able to contain myself...

Actually, I listed what I did with the intentions of finding other musicians who are interested in similar music for the purposes of writing - not because I feel I deserve some kind of music-related respect. Here you go again with your highly opinionated perspective blinding you from a simple truth, Seth. I copied my list into this thread because the three bands you listed from it come nowhere near encompassing the full scope of musicians on it. No, I haven't heard every band you listen to and I don't hold you to any other standard than as such. I'm willing to listen to whatever any and everyone throws at me and chances are, I may like it. Be careful not to make assumptions or snide remarks with that last sentence, too, Seth. Take it for face value, please.

I could go on but I'm hungry, so off to eat dinner I go. Seth, I really do hope we can get to a point where we can post to each other without snide remarks and tasteless albeit witty sarcasm. I'm willing to acknowledge what this fruitless back and forth has all turned out to be... Are you? Contrary to what you seem to think about me, I acknowledge your intelligence and feel that your opinion could be beneficial on any given topic. Don't let that go to your head, though. Self-flattery is incredibly tasteless - even when used solely as a meaningless sarcastic tool. You've made me well aware of what you find to be tasteless in my writing but feel free to spend the time to reiterate said points.

And no, I don't listen to POD with religion in mind... However, I do find it comical that you prefaced that last paragraph with "Jesus," though. Nice one. =)

-Stephen

AFA tech skill... yeah, I wasn't asking cause I wanna have a showdown with ya davis... just trying to bolster my point. I guess it came across kinda silly... but I was just recognizing that you come from a differnt perspective than phrail and myself. I don't think there is anything wrong or sub-par about that... just a different take on things.

"Why do you hate Clapton?" Perhaps hate is too strong of a word, but clapton is often compared to hendrix and that is rediculous.
I like "I get off on 67 chevys...", "layla", can't name a derik song but I know I like one or two...
yardbirds-hello jeff beck and jimmi page made it great,
cream - strange brew... was ok... they did "in a white room" too right?
not a bad song at all... but,
Clapton is a hack as a gtr hero... he brought nothing new to the instrument. Not a bad songwriter... just a crappy gtr hero. His solos bore me to tears... I can damn near predict where he's going with a solo.
It's like when you listen to crappy lyrics and you figure out the next rhyming word berfore they get there... I can't stand that. It's weird cause that layla riff is actually pretty decent... but then he solos and I wanna stick a railroad spike in my ear.
I guess he's just one that rubs me the wrong way.
Plenty of great gtr players think he's good, but I just can't force myself to acknowlege that.

I like to think I'm a pretty well rounded listener... the fact that I know who john hiatt is would suggest that I am a great appreciator of songwriting skill... and many other levels too... vocal ability, lyrics, etc. but that appreciation is tempered by an admittedly over-zealous love for one instrument.
speaking of songwriters... what do you think of kenny loggins then? What about kenny rodgers(yes I'm serious)?

yes tha math comment... I could be serious... but it wouldn't be much of a conversation as I allready know the answer to both... I was just throwing that out there cause I thought there'd be a very small chance that you (or anyone else) would be able to chat on that topic... I was half trying to stump you and half just horseing about. I'd be really impressed if you knew what field of mathematics the answer to the first q would enlist. I know you are a bright character either way, and I know there are lots of different types of smart... but when you throw out a statement like "I'd be willing to converse on any subject"... I can't help myself but try and trip you up! (note you didn't say exactly that on this thread but you have in a prior conversation between you and I)
I'm sure there are some specialized things you could trip me up on too, but I didn't say I'd converse with you on ANY subject. (I know I'm a real jackass sometimes) No one knows EVERYTHING davis... except maybe that guy over there with the 169 IQ who is smarter than steven hawking. I'm not sure why the guy stoped at 169, why not just go all the way to 211 and be the smartest man alive? (chuckle)
Anywho,
cheers
mv

Phrailguitarist,

Researching one's history? HA! I'd love to tell you that you mattered to me that much but alas, I'd been trolling bandmix for quite awhile before our frivilous little tit-for-tat began. Don't let me down with a sub-par snide remark to this, by the way!

Then you've been a fan prior to our exchange?

Quite frankly, I find it highly unrealistic that you've given a few of these bands a listen to even song 1 prior to my list but I won't fully assume that you haven't. The fact that you relate Nobuo Uematsu only to video game music shows your complete lack of exposure and willingness to go outside of your little rock and roll box. Hey man, we like what we like and there's nothing wrong with that but your supposed "well-roundedness" as a musician flees you just about everytime you post.

Like you, I've been exposed to a lot of music - willingly and unwillingly. Unwillingly only when a friend plays something that doesn't particularly appeal to me or if it's something I can see through. Uematsu does do film and video game soundtracks doesn't he? How does that show that I'm stuck in a 'Rock and Roll' box. Actually, I listen to Folk and Blues more than any other genre. And if my creating a thread regarding the Beatles' critically acclaimed Sgt. Pepper alludes to my shallowness as a music lover then your list of influences does the same for you. We both know that our influences don't show all that we listen to so neither of us truly knows the extent of the other's musical taste. Even though it means nothing, my small list of 'influences' cover more genres than your list...

Calling Divine Heresy "aggressively cliche" is like calling any band of any other genre "cliche" solely because they play within that genre. It seems as though you think of most anything remotely heavy as cliche. I would say that your perspective leaves you missing out on a lot of good music but if you're content with your current musical scope of enjoyment, then I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. I just have to trust that you're telling the truth when you say you're as open-minded as you are.

The whole 'doom, apocalyptic, gloomy, angry, satan, death' Metal pretense is quite cliche in my mind - but that's my opinion. I like some heavy music but in the long run it's just not that important to me - I find a lot of it to be too pretentious. And calling some of what you like 'good' is up for debate... it's all relative to personal taste. Yes, you'll just have to trust that I'm open minded...

Funny, I've been thinking the exact same thing about you this whole time regarding your well-roundedness as a musician. Your affirmation of my opinions is irrelevent to me, though I would like to think you could see beyond your sarcastic wit to agree with me on a few things and share common opinion. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why it is that I enjoy every single bit of the music you've listed as your influences as well as the Beatles and more than likely, a majority of other artists you may list yet you don't seem to share a similar perspective. Who am I kidding, though? Why should I even care about what you think? I care to a degree because, regardless of personality clash, I see you as a fellow musician and music of all genres influences me. As you said before, neither of us are going to list every freaking influence we have. The people I listed are the bands you can find currently on my iPod. Have a seat in my computer chair, though, and you'll find a plethora of artists from every single genre out there sans obviously obscure genres, in which case, I'd gladly give a chance once presented to me.

Like I said, my list of influences covers more ground then yours does. I never listed my influences but I suppose you could have looked them up and somehow concluded that I'm not well rounded. Your very last sentence above can be said about me as well - we're the same here. I could go into why I don't enjoy many of the artists you listed if you'd like me to. Throughout the history of music there have been so many great artists, creations, innovations; Heavy music just seems entirely insignificant to me - again, I could go into why if you'd like.

I've been saying to you just about this whole time how I like the music you seem to like. No, I don't know everything you like but you're assuming (uh oh, I really must be rubbing off on you) I'm not well-rounded simply because of what I have listed as influences. Wow, when I assumed the same thing, you hypocritically blasted me. Interesting. We're all human here, so let's cut the assumption-blasting crap. I've chosen not to point out the places you've made assumptions thus far for the sake of a shorter argument.

Why would you claim to be well rounded and post such a vague list? If you were trying to prove something then you should have listed more bands and genres for me to sift through. I'm not assuming, I'm concluding based on what you've given me (sound familiar?). If it's important enough for you to prove otherwise then I'll be looking forward to it. What other assumptions have I made? I've got time; I'm taking online classes so I'm here for hours...

Quote:
- but, different strokes I guess...


Uh oh... Is that what I think it is?

An aphorism?

if your opinion of my lack of human perfection with assuming in addition to your assumptions of my musical opinion due to a small list of influences bothers you so much, then I'd be happy to oblige your preference of my listening to your music or not.

I didn't assume your influences aren't well rounded, all one has to do is look. And nobody's perfect... we all know that. And by all means, listen to my song when I post it. I'll listen to your music as well - when I'm not sitting here with a throbbing headache.

A reiteration without my having to type it:

I acknowledge your intelligence and feel that your opinion could be beneficial on any given topic. Don't let that go to your head, though. Self-flattery is incredibly tasteless - even when used solely as a meaningless sarcastic tool.

Well said.

You know neither of us would return and waste the time if it were completely fruitless...

[quote="phrailguitarist']And no, I don't listen to POD with religion in mind... However, I do find it comical that you prefaced that last paragraph with "Jesus," though. Nice one. =) [/quote]

You'll agree that blasphemy from a nonbeliever is less severe than from a believer. Perhaps you didn't find my preface as humorous or ironic as I did.

MrMikeV,

Layla is a Derik & the Dominos song. Cream had many good songs and blues covers... They're worth a greatest hits or their '67 record Disreali Gears. I've never analyzed Clapton's solos like that - I can see where your coming from though if he really is that predictable. I think the Yardbirds were great even before Page and Beck. I liked their original hard-R&B style heard on their first record, Five Live Yardbirds (highly suggested, by the way).

Kenny Loggins is a pretty good songwriter but I don't really listen to his work. He wrote a little for the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band didn't he? I know about what he did for the Dirt Band more than his solo career it seems. I don't really like Kenny Rogers' solo work though... I respect his body of work but it doesn't do anything for me (and, in my opinion, some of his stuff just isn't very high quality). I didn't like the band he was in before it either - First Edition? I think that was it... I do really like the New Christy Minstrels in the '60s which he was a part of.

I could try to solve those math questions but, as I stated earlier, I have a throbbing headache right now! Maybe next time... I respect the field of Mathematics but I only went past calculus in college... I did say I would converse on any subject in a previous post but that was supposed to be in regards to music theory haha. I do believe that you know much more than me though, especially since you attended a music school. Most everything I know is self taught... Yeah, it's impossible to everything about everything... very true... except for Dr. 169 in General Chat of course haha... Little does the world know that the smartest man alive can be found right here at Bandmix.com!