General Music Chat

Ryan - "What do Catholics have to do with being Christians? Being a Catholic doesn't make you a Christian."

I'm very confused. I thought Catholics believe that Jesus was the son of God. Doesn't that make them Christians? This is my biggest complaint about Christianity - there's a thousand flavors and each one thinks it's right. More likely scenario - none of them are right.

Consider this, Ryan.

As I understand it, the Old Testament is all about law, right? But man kept breaking the law, so god had to come up with some sort of new way to bring man into the fold, through "grace."

In the past, man kept doing things contrary to the law to the point that he actually began to imprint his wrongs into his DNA structure...i.e. - "the sins of the father are now visited upon the sons"...because the tendencies for homosexuality had become so widespread that it's in there, now, right in the DNA of millions, probably even billions, of ppl.

So, god had Jesus come & fix it all for you, yet here you are, still holding onto the law, & condemning ppl who can no longer follow it through NO FAULT OF THIER OWN.

So, are you a Jew, or a Christian? Do you follow the Old or the New?

Riddle me this, batman! Are these ppl still "sinners?" If they ARE, is there anything they could have done to avoid being sinners, if it's been implanted in them from before thier very birth? Who the f*ck are YOU to determine thier worth as human beings, or as good or bad christians? It looks to me as though this sort of thing has been covered by the religion, yet the followers of the religion don't recognize it even as they spout thier "belief." Just what DO you believe?

I'm just trying to look at things like a "good christian" should, as I see it, from the outside looking in...playing "christian's advocate," if you will.

Most christians I know would look at these statements of mine as heresy, as if I'm trying to legalize or condone any sin, as though I'm trying to break down the religion & make everything ppl do to be perfectly okay. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I'm just applying those aspects of the religion that christians keep telling me about, & trying to understand the bigotry I see from so many of those who claim to be followers of the faith.

How do YOU see it, Ryan? Do you think it right & proper for a "christian" to laugh about hitting someone with a bat, for no reason other than he was born some which way?

Please - DO explain!

I realize that this stance requires the belief that homosexual tendencies are indeed to be found in the DNA strand, but there are ppl making that very claim. My lil theory could explain how man made those adjustments, & not god, since you find it so hard to believe that god would create a homosexual...

Have I misunderstood the basic core beliefs of christianity? Craig! Paul! A little help?

I think the Bible is fairly plain about what it says about homosexuality; if you want to argue about it, you may find yourself arguing with God himself. God made man, your arguments would lead me to believe that you made God and therefore can dictate what He says, thinks, or does. You make it sound as if God is evil because He has made it plain that He does not condone homosexuality.

I personally believe that homosexuals are demon possessed. To talk to them and see how they behave and to watch their facial expressions and just the general look in their eyes, they don't seem like normal people. The bible also points out that they are disobedient to their parents; this is an absolute fact. I've heard enough homo's talk to their parents, and it's kind of creepy and rude; I would never talk to my mother or father that way. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile.

The main problem that exists with homosexuality is that, not only is it a sin against God, but it is also a sin against nature, unable to reproduce between themselves. Nature itself testifies that opposites attract, otherwise south pole magnets would be attracting south pole magnets and vice versa. An atom has a positively charged center while negatively charged electrons revolve around it, held by the gravity of the positive charge. And so on.

Christians ought not to be making insinuations like in the cartoon, but we should not be giving ground to something that would have devastating affects on the Christian body as a whole, if it hasn't already.

Okay, I dunno my bible all that well. Where does it say that homosexuals are disobedient towards thier parents? I never heard that one.

Some of the ppl I know who fit into this decription are actually very very helpful & loving with thier parents.

"Demon possessed?" WOW! Okay, if that's the case, again I must ask - is this thier fault? As I understand it, a demon could possess just about anyone who's happens to be open to it for a mere moment. Is demon possession a sin, too?

You may say that it's a "sin against nature," but I see it happening with dogs all the time...well, certain acts that would certainly look like they were acts of that nature. Are the dogs sinning, too?

Still, you haven't answered the core question, which is - are they covered by Jesus' sacrifice, in the same way that you would be, as a "saved christian?" Your post would seem to lean towards the negative, but I don't want to read too much into it.

"I think the Bible is fairly plain about what it says about homosexuality..." Are you speaking of the New or the Old Testament? I don't recall if the New even covers the subject, but, as I said, I'm no bible scholar. Isn't there a difference between the way these sins are viewed & handled between the New & the Old Testaments by the followers of the religion? Isn't there a "new covenant?"

Demon possesed? I bet you had relatives that lived in Salem and could spot witches. And that fabrication about hearing 'homos' talking to their parents? I'm sure you're god doesn't like liars either. Repent ye sinner!

While I'm at it, LCME, I guarantee that I could put you in a room with 20 ppl tomorrow, & you wouldn't be able to find all the straights in the group, even if you talked with them every day for an entire week. You would make mistakes in your assessments time & again.

I know quite a few ppl who are straight who talk a little differently. Hell, I do, myself, at times. I've been accused of being gay (which is untrue, btw) on more than one occasion.

I think you may tend to read too much into ppl.

The gay ppl I know run the gamut. One of them is a blacksmith. Another is a fireman, who used to be a cop. They exist in every area of our lives, & in many cases we don't know who they are, & they prefer to keep it that way. Others feel better being more open about things.

To make broad blanketing statements about any group of ppl is to show one's ignorance, imho, because there are no hard & fast rules, no standards of behavior, to be gay, or black, or white, or emotionally or educationally challenged. Each of us is different, & you cannot simply put any of us into a lil box & say "this is what you are, & this is ALL you are."

You can't do it with christians, either, even when they claim to have been "saved."

Ryan - "What do Catholics have to do with being Christians? Being a Catholic doesn't make you a Christian."

I'm very confused. I thought Catholics believe that Jesus was the son of God. Doesn't that make them Christians? This is my biggest complaint about Christianity - there's a thousand flavors and each one thinks it's right. More likely scenario - none of them are right.

Being a Christian means that you've accept God's free gift of salvation and let Him into heart.

Your religious label has nothing to do with that.

There are saved Catholics, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, there are saved Jews, and there are also plenty of unsaved "christians".

You can't know a persons heart by their label.

So yes, it was wrong of me to ASSUME that the guy who made this comic was unsaved, but that's also why I said these words: "I BET".

All I'm saying is, Catholics don't preach salvation. They focus too much on Mary, and worshiping statues, and reciting their little prayers written on cards that they are REQUIRED to recite every day.

I still don't understand what this whole thing had to do with Christianity. This could've happened at any school, and it's not like he drew this comic while saying to himself "THIS IS WHAT GOD WANTS". He made a mistake.

But for you to condemn all Christians for the acts of one just put you in that typical Atheist/Agnostic stereotype: "I HATE A GOD WHO I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE EXISTS"

Ryan everytime you speak you demonstrate how ignorant you are. By lumping athiests in with agnostics proves you don't know the distinction. Athiests are sure there's no God; agnostics simply say there's not enough evidence to decide. I cannot make it simpler than that. And I'm pretty sure the billion or so Catholics would have an issue with you saying they're not Christians. I'll let you fight that one on your own.

I don't think anyone here is condemning all christians for this guy's stupid bigotry, Ryan. We ARE saying that it often seems to be a view shared by many christians, though, & we find it curious, & sad.

I also seriously doubt that this would have even been attempted at many of the secular schools, for obvious reasons. Secular ppl don't accept this kind of behavior in thier learning institutions. Higher learning is supposed to be above this sort of thing, is it not?

You say that Catholics don't preach salvation? Where did you get that? From your pastor? They preach a different path than the one you're taking, but they are very very interested in the entire concept of salvation, you can rest assured of that! They use pastoral intervention much more than you would like, perhaps, & they also use thier saints as examples & as intervening forces between you, the sinner, & Jesus or god, but they are very sincere & certain in thier beliefs, just as you are about yours.

You say that Catholics don't preach salvation? Where did you get that? From your pastor? They preach a different path than the one you're taking, but they are very very interested in the entire concept of salvation, you can rest assured of that! They use pastoral intervention much more than you would like, perhaps, & they also use thier saints as examples & as intervening forces between you, the sinner, & Jesus or god, but they are very sincere & certain in thier beliefs, just as you are about yours.

My whole family used to be Catholic. And most of our family back in New York still is.

And I'm pretty sure the billion or so Catholics would have an issue with you saying they're not Christians. I'll let you fight that one on your own.

Once again, that's not what I said. You're just twisting my words so you can fight me.

And?

And?

And what?

I don't have all the answers. I know what I know and that's it. Don't come to me for all the worlds answers.

And I'm pretty sure the billion or so Catholics would have an issue with you saying they're not Christians. I'll let you fight that one on your own.

Once again, that's not what I said. You're just twisting my words so you can fight me.

Horse pucks. Those were your words. If you don't like your words don't say 'em.

And I'm pretty sure the billion or so Catholics would have an issue with you saying they're not Christians. I'll let you fight that one on your own.

Once again, that's not what I said. You're just twisting my words so you can fight me.

Horse pucks. Those were your words. If you don't like your words don't say 'em.

I said that a lot of Catholics aren't Christians. And you know what?! There are plenty of CHRISTIANS who are not Christians. But I also said you can't know someones heart by their RELIGIOUS LABEL. I don't think you understand that just going to a "Christian" church all your life doesn't make you a Christian. I THEN SAID, there ARE Christian Catholics, Christian Jews, there may even be Christian Muslims!

It's all in the heart, not in your religious label.

And yes, I understand the difference between atheists and agnostics. I should've worded that sentence differently, as to not cause any confusion