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#96936 by ColorsFade
Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:28 pm
Chris4Blues wrote:When you lay out a song, is there a general rule you apply in terms of how many bars you commit to an intro, how many for the chorus, how many for the song, and where you place each? I'm struggling with composition in terms of general guidelines for structuring a song. I know rules are meant to be broken in music, but it seems there is a general approach.



I don't have any rules Chris. I let the length get defined by the riff.

For instance, one riff I in a song I wrote is pretty simple: E-C-E-D. But the strumming pattern of that riff dictates the length of it. One time through that riff wasn't enough for an obvious verse, so I decided to stick to the standard 4x through, based on 4/4 timing. However, as I was playing it through 4x, I found that I always ended it with an extended open C chord, that I played for the same amount of measures as the riff. The riff, incidentally, was four measures long.

After I sat back and listened to E-C-E-D 4x with a 4-measure C ending, I determined it was too long. So in the final rewrite, I play E-C-E-D 3c, and I end with the 4-measure C chord. Without lyrics written, it just sounds right. And so when it comes time to write lyrics for that, I'll work to fit them in there.

I know for a fact that Eddie Van Halen composes this way and he has often said that a song has to kick ass without vocals before he hands it over to the vocalist. So, in those terms, the song and the arrangement and how it feels should rock by itself. And I know Rush writes the same way. Geddy and Alex write all the music first, and Pert writes hoards of lyrics and hands them to Geddy, and then Geddy just takes the lyric piece he likes and fits them into the music where there is space.

So... I'd not worry about any hard and fast rules about how long a verse has to last, or a chorus, or whatever. I'd just go by feel. If it feels right, then it's right. The song has to be the king.

#96940 by KLUGMO
Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:47 pm
Chris I found that years ago when I started writing the radio and albums were my best text book. as you listen to a song. Take it apart in your mind as it is playing. You will hear little things in the writing that you will want to try in your own writing. Craig is right about comercial structure of hits. I learned that way and still write that way in general. I always seem to write my songs between 3-4 minutes and out of there.

#96943 by KLUGMO
Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:14 pm
Finally I got U guys talkin about music instead of politics and religion.

#97055 by chipfryer
Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:54 pm
I write a song week by week. Note upon note and build it if possible? I find it totally frustrating sometimes, it could take years for when I think it is right to be put out there.
The Collector is a perfect example in what I'm saying too Klugmo.

For me it is hard.

#97084 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:49 am
Just wrote a new song about politics and religion

#97085 by KLUGMO
Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:51 am
Good one DOG :)

#97086 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:52 am
I tried to post it ,,, but it seems it was condemned by church and state. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

#97087 by KLUGMO
Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:54 am
Bless You

#97094 by Fitna
Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:37 am
I get lots of instrumental or singing melodies in my head throughout the day. After my daughter is in bed, I get about an hour to sit down and start playing and recording the ideas. Usually the song structure just flows from there. I don't like the songs to be too long. I generally try to cut out the fat and keep it simple.

With most things, it's something I've gotten better with in time. When I first started out, some of my recordings were awful. Just horribly lame ideas. Now, I'm so good with the equipment and techniques, that I can have a whole song fleshed out really quickly.

#97126 by KLUGMO
Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:02 pm
Hey Fit, I was very impressed with your stuff. I hope your singer can measure-up to what you've done. Real singers are one in a million.

#97128 by Fitna
Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:10 pm
Thanks man. I've been having a real hard time finding a singer. I have a couple of guys I'm working with now, but I'm still not so sure.

#97129 by KLUGMO
Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:15 pm
Take your time with that decision. Search far and wide.

#97148 by Slacker G
Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:04 pm
I usually get a "Line" in my head while I'm doing anything other than writing music. Sometimes it's from something said on TV. Mostly while I'm fixing myself something to eat. If it sounds good, I'll write it down.
After the first line I come up with a melody. Then I write in cadence with the melody.
After a couple of verses, I write a chorus.

Other times I'll be "Gettin down wif my own bad self" playing my favorite guitar, and a pattern will emerge that should have lyrics. And I write them to fit.

The last song I wrote "kept morphing" over and over until it didn't even look like the original, with the exception of the original line.

It works for me. For anyone interested, here is the link to the "morpher" that started as something altogeather different.

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8624066

#97177 by KLUGMO
Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:30 pm
Chet Atkins, Danny Gatton, thats what I'm talkin about. :D

#97216 by gbheil
Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:51 am
They just come to me.
Usually in time of high stress or physical exhaustion when my resistance to the worlds bullshit is at it's lowest point.
Sometimes at the exiting edge of sleep, I awake with lyrics to a basic melody looping in my headbone.
More than once have scribbled a framework of lyric on a receipt or other trash off the floor board of my jeep and delivered it to the band who would breath life into it.
This has not occurred since I stopped working double 16 hr shifts on weekends. I have to assume it is because I don't get to the same level of psychotic exhaustion as I did doing that job.

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