General Music Chat

Oil reserves are expected to last another 50 years, and possibly several decades more, as new oil fields are still being found (not major ones, but substantial) and new technologies for finding and extracting the oil are always being developed.

At the same time, China and other 3rd world countries are upping their demand in tremendous amounts. You have to see the whole equation at once. You can't just talk about supply - you HAVE to factor in demand.

And it's not just about automobiles. Everything revolves around petroleum. Everything. Who is going to care if a new automobile gets 50 MPG when gas is limited and the price of a gallon of gas is $20? That's going to affect EVERYTHING.

I'm telling you - go read this link
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/

When you realize how much oil goes into making FOOD it starts to sink in.

When oil goes away, so will food. And when people lose their food, and their heat, and their electricity, and their cars and planes... we're hosed. I mean, HOSED. It's going to be anarchy.

Forget about other economies - the only thing that will matter is who has the biggest gun and the most bullets.

We have a limited amount of time to find alternate energy sources that do not rely on oil. And so far, we've done a pretty piss poor job of discovering those.

Ain't it the sad sad truth, CF!

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Colors,

I will check the link out, but I am aware of the points you are making. I already mentioned that emerging markets are a concern, particularly China and India. And yes, many things are dependent on oil, including alot of plastics which are petroleum based.

But mankind will prevail.

You are right, we are up against time constraints, but the government is more aware of the real situation, even more than most of the public is.

Technologies are being developed.

Political will, will eventually open up nuclear again (in fact, I think there are a number of requests to build nuclear facilities as we speak... unless I am thinking of somewhere else) but we have vast resources here, untapped, in Alaska, in National Parks... Shale, Natural gas, oil, etc... They will find a way of balancing preservation of our parks with extraction of it's resources.

There are SO MANY things that can be done, and done in combination, and these will come to fruition. Look at the invention of the Segway, which was forseen as the powered single-occupant vehicle of the future. And while it has not sold hundreds of millions of units, as first envisioned, in developing countries, they are making an impact. I see them used by the postal service, meter attendants, etc...all the time now. All of which would have been burning gas powered vehicles previously. It is a very miniscule dent, but it is a taste of the future.

And I'll get weird at this point, but...

The God you "KNOW" does not exist, has communicated to me, that there will be very dark days ahead, particularly over the next 3 years, but that humanity will survive, and overcome, and technology will continue to be embraced, not abandoned.

God created a seemingly infinite cosmos, to have space for humanity to expand for not thousand, but MILLIONS of years to come. And technology is required to develop the ability to travel, explore, harvest resources, and eventually SETTLE... other worlds. And not merely technology, but mutual cooperation and respect for our common humanity, will be required to achieve this. Mankind -WILL- learn to accept that humanity is a FAMILY, and we MUST cooperate for our mutual survival.

THIS -IS- OUR FUTURE!

And it -WILL- come to pass.

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Craig,

I don't "know" anything about God. I don't know if He does exist or doesn't exist. Knowing requires certainty - of which I have none. That's my official position.

All I "know" is that I haven't seen him, and neither has anyone else. He seems about as believable to me as the Tooth Fairy.

What I have seen - what I have "witnessed" - is human beings committing atrocities in His name. I've witnessed "Christians" telling me I'm going to hell because I don't "believe" in "His plan".

I "know" one thing: If the Christian God DOES exist - he's not a God I want to worship anyway.

First of all, any God that requires his subjects to blindly believe in him without proof is not a God I want to waste mu time believing in. If I were God I'd make sure I made quarterly appearances on CNN and FOX news. I'd make sure I was out there, showing people I exist. Ambiguity is for cowards. A chickensh*t God is not good enough for me.

Second - his followers are judgmental and prejudiced, racists and cowards, full of hate and fear and intolerance and they will kill and hurt in His name. They have twisted the truth and lied in the past (the Earth is the center of the universe! The Earth is flat!) to exert control over their fellow man, and they continue to do it to this very day. They'll keep doing it tomorrow. And according to them, their God is a "righteous" God, who will send the rest of us non-believers to Hell. So hey - that's not any God I want to associate myself with, ya know?

And if the Christian God wanted to dispute any of that - he could just manifest himself and do it. He doesn't. So, he either doesn't exist, or he's a coward. Again, not anyone I want to "worship", let alone passively believe in.


Someday, maybe when I'm old and gray, I'll start my own religion. One based on my own God, that does or doesn't exist, and it will be a God that doesn't hate, doesn't judge, and doesn't cast fear into its believers. Only a God of unconditional love, who passes no judgment, who loves all men and women regardless of their skin color or sexual orientation - who loves them all no matter what "sins" they commit in their lives.


Until then - the Christian God - and all the rest of them - get no love from me. They haven't EARNED it.

G7

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Colors,

All I can tell you, is that many "Christians" have very little understanding of the heart of the God, whom they believe they serve, by looking good on Sunday mornings and following rules and rituals.

God "DOES" love us all, and there is no such thing as a physical Hell.

Hell is quite simply, separation from God, nothing more, but nothing less.

The world is the way it is because of free-will.

Free-will is a necessary element to partake in "love".

The natural result of free-will is that people will choose good, while others choose evil. Evil is a loaded term. Good and evil can be reduced very easily to simply "selfishness" and "unselfishness". When people serve self, at the expense of others, this is all sin is.

Sin comes from separation from God.

When I deny God, I become the Lord of my own life. I don't need Him in my life, and He won't be there. When I recognize my need for God in my life, then He comes into my life, and becomes a part of me, and vice versa. Our spirits become one.

Heaven, like hell, is not a PLACE, but a state of BEING.

As the Bible says "God is Love"

When I admit my need for that love in my life, I receive it.

When I don't recognize that need, I reject that love by default.

God does not PUNISH me for refusing His love. My life becomes punishment enough. Because I live without the FULLNESS of love that is possible, when I am instead empty before the source of love, who can fill me. Like a physical cup... when it is full, I cannot fill it with something else. When I am full of myself, there is no room for God's love. But when I empty myself, of self... the selfish self, then God can fill me, as He desires to, with His love.

If you know some of the basic Genesis story, then you know that Adam and Eve were "cast out" of the Garden of Eden for their sin. If you read more of the Bible, you will learn that Lucifer rebelled against God, became Satan, and was also CAST OUT of Heaven itself.

These descriptions ARE THE SAME THING!

It was the ancients understanding that there was separation that occurred, but they attributed it to God literally THROWING people places... Lucifer "out of Heaven" - Adam and Eve "out of the Garden"

I am going to tell you a secret...

It is not "GOD" which cast anyone out of any place, but SIN.

When we sin, we are IMMEDIATELY removed from the presence of God, where no sin can exist, because GOD IS LOVE.

The Garden of Eden is merely a metaphor for Heaven itself... the state of Oneness with God.

Lucifer desired to be His own God, and this eliminated his need for God... He cast himself out of God's presence, because he became his own god.

Adam and Eve also sinned, and this cast them out of God's presence as well.

It is a natural law... like the dependable reliability of GRAVITY.

This is a spiritual law... a spiritual reality.

It is not that God does not love us, or desires for us to be separated from His love, but when we REJECT that love, through the selfishness of sin, our spirits are IMMEDIATELY removed from the presence of God, like the force of gravity or magnetism... it is NATURAL and not some "program" to get us, or hurt us.

When we sin, WE REMOVE OURSELVES from the love of God.

When instead, we are OPEN to that love, then it floods into us.

Satan rose against God, because, as the Bible correctly states, he desired the THRONE OF GOD, which is a metaphor for BEING A GOD, having the POWER OF A GOD.

A created being CAN NEVER truly be God Himself, with the power and love He possesses, but WE CAN become the "god" of our own lives, where we are obedient only to our own interests, rather than allowing the love of God to guide our hearts and lives.

What gets missed by many Christians and even scholars of the Bible, is that Satan's motivation for leaving God, as well as Eve's, was THE SAME.

When Eve was communing with Satan, he asked her "Did God say that you are not to eat of any of the trees of the Garden?"

Eve answers... "God said that we may eat of ALL the trees of the Garden, but of the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL we must not eat, for in the day that we eat of it, we will die."

Satan responds... "You will not die if you eat this fruit. God doesn't want you to eat it, because when you do, you will become LIKE GOD HIMSELF, knowing good and evil"

Eve "BELIEVES" Satan's instructions, and NOT God's, because SHE DOES EAT!

In that moment, Satan became her God, because who we trust most, is who we obey." That is why Satan is called the "god of this world" because He became Adam and Eve's god, once they obeyed Him, rather than the Creator.

Clearly her temptation for doing this, was THE EXACT SAME as Satan's... the desire to be a god, because it was ONLY WHEN Satan told her she would be a god, that she ate. Clearly, that is what her heart believed and then desired.

Like Satan before her, Eve REMOVED HERSELF from the environment of love she had previously existed in, and became god of her own life.

It is not coincidence that BEING A GOD, is the root of both the Angels sins, and Man's sins. Satan multiplied his own sin THROUGH EVE, and then Adam.

God is our Creator.

We have no ability to EXIST ETERNALLY without some force, making this so. I cannot create a single FLOWER out of nothing, let alone maintain my spiritual existence for eternity.

This is what ALL SIN is rooted in and spreads from.

One of the most vile and oppressive systems of government known to man is Communism, which is an atheistic based system of government.

What does Marxism say?

"Religion is the opiate (drug) of the masses"

They preach that the WEALTHY CLASS -INVENTED- religion and therefore God, to SUBJUGATE the working class, because they are so numerous, that weapons alone cannot contain them. So the ruling class, invented the concept of a God, who wants you to "turn the other cheek" and "accept the injustices of this world" and "obey your masters" and you will be REWARDED in the NEXT LIFE!

Seems like a plan.

But what the essence of that belief is really saying is this...

MAN CREATED GOD

Not... God created man.

The roles are reversed, between Creator and created being.

I am God (since I invented the STORY of god) and God is the created being (created through a story man made up)


This REVERSAL of the truth, is what separates us from God. Why do I need God now? I am the God of mine own life.

This is NOT God's doing.... IT IS OURS!!!

Because He allows us that choice.

What many EXTERNALLY RELIGIOUS people do not realize however, is that THEY OFTEN COMMIT THIS SAME SIN THEMSELVES!!!

If my religious belief is... "If I follow the 10 commandments perfectly, then I will go to Heaven"

And many Christian-based religions teach this or something similar... then they repeat this same sin.

They don't NEED A SAVIOR, because they ARE SAVING THEMSELVES!!!

Even in their comfortable churches, they are living outside of God's love, because THEY ARE THEIR OWN SAVIOR, through doing good works. The Bible says that ONLY GOD CAN SAVE... and therefore, if I am my own Savior... I AM MY OWN GOD!

God's "LOVE" is not in me, at least not strongly and consistently, because I keep REMOVING MYSELF from the presence of God. Because if I am my own God, my own Savior, through my own efforts, I don't really need a god do I?

It is not God which abandons us.

It is US who abandons Him!



This world is a NURSERY, a SCHOOL of love.

We are here to learn to bring God's love into our lives and existences, to learn to love as God loves.

This is why LOVE passes through 3 major stages throughout our lives.

We are born into the world, completely selfish, but by necessity, not choice. We are COMPLETELY dependent on our parents as children, merely to LIVE. If no one feeds us, as infants... WE DIE.

We don't have the ability to do anything for ourselves, let alone others.

Complete dependency... complete selfishness. We cry and demand to be fed, or held, or loved, whatever.

The next major change in love, is when we date or get married.

Now rather than love merely being given freely to us, because we are children whose parents care for them, suddenly, we find a PEER, a MATE and desire love with them. Only now, love cannot just be TAKEN, or that relationship will not last very long. If I want to RECEIVE love from my partner, I must GIVE LOVE EQUALLY, for it to be a healthy and life-long relationship.

So, we go from being completely SELFISH in love.

To learning and practicing EQUALITY in love, with a partner.

And of course, the last stage of love, is PARENTHOOD, where we learn to now, GIVE LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY, as God does. We give love to our child, whether it is returned or not. We learn to be completely UNSELFISH in love, through parenthood, which is why God designed us to procreate. Not merely to increase the species, but because we then UNDERSTAND GOD'S HEART better, because it is a PARENTAL HEART, a COMPLETELY UNSELFISH heart!

That is the final stage to be perfected.

Through our children, whether spiritual or physical, we learn to LOVE UNCONDITIONALLY. We learn to love AS GOD LOVES.

So we go from...

COMPLETE SELFISHNESS (child - selfish love)

to...

EQUALITY IN LOVE (adolescent or young adult - equal love)

and finally to...

COMPLETE "UN"-SELFISHNESS (mature adult - parental love)


God -IS- the God of love, you would want Him to be!

HE IS LOVE ITSELF

That's why it is not as easy as many, even the religious, would have it.

It's not as easy as ALL OR NOTHING.

Even VERY SELFISH people have MOMENTS of love, where they are humble enough to invite love (invite God) into their hearts.

They taste love.

They want it.

It feels right.

But they can reject it, as selfishness consumes them again.

When we die, the part of us that came from God (the love in our lives and in our hearts) returns to God. The rest stays in this physical environment of the cosmos. Our bodies return to the Earth.

You can consume yourself in selfishness, to the point that there is NO ROOM EVER for God's love, and you won't be kept alive to burn in hell, merely for our "Father's" enjoyment, but you will simply cease to exist. You had rid yourself of anything spiritual, so all that was left was your flesh nature, which decays and returns to the ground.

It is the LOVE that is eternal in us, because the LOVE IS GOD, and ONLY GOD has the ability to perpetually maintain His own existence.

What is ETERNAL in us, is how much GOD is in us.

God had no beginning nor end.

A self sustaining perpetual force.

It is GOD that is eternal only... not a "magic spell" that some get have cast on them and others don't.

All the truth in the Bible or other religious documents inspired by God, is an attempt to understand this relationship, and put into words, that mankind can understand, on the level they are on.

So the God of the Old Testament is portrayed as harsh (WE WERE HARSH) and that is how we perceived God's inspiration. We received revelation that there was SOMETHING MORE, and that SIN WAS THE PROBLEM... DISOBEDIENCE.

But as a less advanced people would do, WE WENT TO AN EXTREME:

"Sin is so wicked, that the sinner must be put to death!"

"We must eradicate sin in our lives, by punishment or by killing it (stoning to death)

The people of the time were doing the best they could, with what they thought they understood.

The bad was... "Children were even killed for disobeying parents"

The good however was FAR GREATER, than some of the injustices committed.

We learned and embraced something called... LAW

We learned to... OBEY

Laws spread throughout civilization, which was an improvement over chaos and constant struggle for my own survival.


Baby steps for humanity itself.

When we began to master obedience, God could come and introduce a higher law than "rules".... the LAW of LOVE!

It was then explained, through the person of Jesus Christ, that the law was not given to be served by man, but to serve man. The LAW serves man. Man does not serve the LAW.

The LAW was a tool to be used. To help us become "CIVIL" so that we could slow down, and be able to HEAR GOD'S VOICE more clearly. After CIVILITY becomes more common, then God could teach us MANY THINGS, because we have some self-control now, we are separating from our animal heritage, from our instinct and impulsivity controlling us.


Jesus taught that the LAW was only a tool, to teach us to live a higher law... THE LAW OF LOVE, where CONSCIENCE guides us, and rules become unnecessary.


It is Jesus who inspired both Gandhi and Martin Luther King, to practice sacrifice and particularly the principles of non-violent protest. What seems a weak act... allowing others to kill you, and NOT responding back in violence, is actually the STONGEST ACT possible.

IT CHANGES PEOPLE!

They don't know what to do with someone like that.

It affects their lives and they never forget what they witnessed.

As when the guards who murdered Jesus, were piercing him with swords while he was on the cross, and as they left Him to bleed and choke to death, Jesus looked down and said "Forgive them, for they know not what they do!"

And the guards responded...

"Surely THIS WAS the son of God"

It affected them, so that what they did without thought previously, suddenly burdened their conscience, and they voiced the TRUTH they were feeling in their hearts!

IT IS LOVE, WHICH CHANGES THE HEARTS OF MEN!

Not rules.

Not threats.

Not force.

Not anything else.


Don't judge God, the source of love, for the refusal of many, who call him their Father in name, to PRACTICE that love.

If they were of their Father, they would obey His will.

And as Jesus DISPLAYED IN ACTION... the will of the Father, is simply that WE LOVE! Jesus did not STONE the adulterous woman, though that was prescribed by the law... he forgave her.

Jesus did not call a horde of angels, even to kill the guards who were murdering Him... he asked for their forgiveness.


IT REALLY IS... ALL ABOUT LOVE!!!

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Colors,

All I can tell you, is that many "Christians" have very little understanding of the heart of the God, whom they believe they serve, by looking good on Sunday mornings and following rules and rituals.

You know, Craig, you have said that before.

But what affects me isn't what you say - it's how people actually behave. And that's what matters.

But what affects me isn't what you say - it's how people actually behave. And that's what matters.

You're right.


The recorded history of Jesus, is that He behaved lovingly.

His followers try and FOLLOW that example to varying degrees, with MANY falling FAR SHORT.

I can only say, that I do my best myself.

I know I have the heart, to trade places in hell with someone, even if an eternal burning hell was real.

I don't know ANY Christian or otherwise on here, that would do the same for me.

But that doesn't mean I don't still fall short.

I do.

All I can do, is acknowledge my error, try and make up for it, and hopefully, learn enough not to repeat it.

Life is growth.

Perfecting the heart, is no less strenuous a process, than perfecting the body through exercise.

Because you have experienced the 90% of "Christians" who do not have sacrificial hearts and forgiving natures, does not mean the other 10% would not absolutely blow you away, with how devoted they were, to loving and serving others.

Give them a chance at least.

.

Because you have experienced the 90% of "Christians" who do not have sacrificial hearts and forgiving natures, does not mean the other 10% would not absolutely blow you away, with how devoted they were, to loving and serving others.

Give them a chance at least.

.

I give people a chance because they're PEOPLE. Fellow human beings. Everyone gets a chance with me. Hell, some people get multiple chances.

When I meet someone for the first time, or am introduced to someone for the first time, or learn about someone for the first time, I really don't care what their political party is, their sexual preference, or their religion. They've got every chance to prove to me they are a good human being.

I have friends in this world who are Republicans, Gay, and Christians (sometimes all three at once). They're my friends because they're good human beings...

But here's what I think: I think they would be good human beings no matter what they believed in, or who they voted for. I think people who are good human beings are just good no matter what. It's in their neurons to be that way.

And I think it would actually be easier for a lot of people to be good human beings if there were no religion in the world...

Because you have experienced the 90% of "Christians" who do not have sacrificial hearts and forgiving natures, does not mean the other 10% would not absolutely blow you away, with how devoted they were, to loving and serving others.

Give them a chance at least.

.

Same is true for moslems or buddhists or jewish ppl or athiests or pagans or just about any group you might choose, Craig.

Give them a chance, too.

Same is true for moslems or buddhists or jewish ppl or athiests or pagans or just about any group you might choose, Craig.

Give them a chance, too.

But I do Phil.


You and Colors are apparently misunderstanding where I am coming from, even though I keep explaining it. Why is that?

When I express concern over the religion of Islam, I am speaking in generalities. You have NEVER heard me say that all Muslims are radicals, or that the RELIGION itself should be destroyed, or that the world would be better off without it.

Yet, Colors says that about ALL religion, and you have nothing to say to him? Double standard there, isn't it?

I don't want to END the religion of Islam... I want them to EVOLVE.

But I express the same sentiment toward Christianity don't I?

So you have some preconceived notion, that DOES NOT represent my heart, and you don't seem to care that it DOES NOT represent my heart or beliefs, but you keep addressing the straw man you have set up for me anyway!




When I speak of the problems of Islam, I am speaking in generalities. It is GENERALLY a religion rooted in VIOLENCE. It began in violence and was spread through violence, and MANY of their religious leaders promote that same violence today.

These are facts.

It would also be a FACT that there are more racists in Georgia, than there are in Washington DC.

You want to be politically correct, in this one case, whereas I am only concerned about being factual.

I've lived in Georgia for many years.

I've lived in Washington DC for many years.

I KNOW FOR A FACT that there are more racists in Georgia than D.C.

I've had to deal with them, and correct them, which... in Georgia, where whole families act this way sometimes... it is VERY difficult, like an uphill battle. But I don't care. I've never been afraid to stand against a crowd.

Right is right.

Wrong is wrong.

Now, you can call me a Anti-Redneck-ist too I suppose, but I don't HATE rednecks either. Good ole boys from the South have many admirable qualities... but racism is not one of them. There are rednecks who are NOT racist, but there are FAR TOO MANY who are.

Now interchange the word REDNECK above with MUSLIM, and you should come to a conclusion that it is YOU who are being biased and not me!

There -ARE- generalities that hold true for certain groups.

It is not elitist or biased or wrong, to point them out.

.

When I speak of the problems of Islam, I am speaking in generalities. It is GENERALLY a religion rooted in VIOLENCE. It began in violence and was spread through violence, and MANY of their religious leaders promote that same violence today.

These are facts.

Craig,

You'd carry a lot more weight in this argument if you weren't being a hypocrite.

You want to speak of "generalities" of the Muslim religion, but you don't want to admit the generalities of your own religion. That's hypocritical any way you slice it.

If you are going to attack the Muslim religion for being generally "rooted in violence" then you MUST admit to the generalities of the Christian religion which has the same problems.

If I say the words: hate, fear, coercion, control, power, judgment and violence, which religion pops in your head?

To me - it's every religion, because they're all the same.

Until you learn to see the SAME faults in your religion that you rail against in the Muslim religion, then there's nothing to discuss.

Your common excuse for Christians is "well, 90% of them don't know the heart of Jesus". Well guess what bub? 90% of Muslims probably don't know the heart of their God either. So whose fault is that?

I blame religion in GENERAL. It's an evil, corrupt, manipulative mechanism devised by man, to control his fellow man. Doesn't matter which name you put on it - be it Christian or Muslim - they are THE SAME.

And that's what you don't get.

They're the SAME thing with different names.

When you realize how much oil goes into making FOOD it starts to sink in.

When oil goes away, so will food. And when people lose their food, and their heat, and their electricity, and their cars and planes... we're hosed. I mean, HOSED. It's going to be anarchy.

Forget about other economies - the only thing that will matter is who has the biggest gun and the most bullets.

We have a limited amount of time to find alternate energy sources that do not rely on oil. And so far, we've done a pretty piss poor job of discovering those.

1977 is when Carter put solar panels on the white house, subsequently ripped down by Reagan. Still in 2010, they haven't been replaced. Nor has alt energy been enthusiastically addressed.

Since the late 70's, I've been hearing the calls for cleaning up our environment, calls for energy conservation, independence from oil, etc..

All my life, I've seen and participated in grass-roots efforts to be responsible about the planet and it's withering resources; as have tens of thousands of other americans. We've begged and pleaded with our leaders over and over, we've voted them out, and new ones in.. Hell, Obama was brought in by we, the people to engage those types of changes, not just physical changes to how we live, but philosophical changes to how we even think and approach realistic and viable solutions.

Our leaders have done nothing, not because they are lazy, or don't care. All because they've been paid *very well* to NOT do anything. Let the corporations pillage teh environment, resources, and let them reap horrific levels of wealth at the expense of everyone else.. so long as *you* (them, whoever) get your piece of the pie, right? Ahh.. the wonders of capitalism: build, consume, profit, repeat cycle. Keep doing that til there is nothing left.

Lucky, those bastards who live on tropical islands, cut off from the rest of the world. No need for electricity, the Wii, cellphones, GM food, and no Kanye to tell them that Beyonce is better. They will be the ones who will suffer the least, so long as they stay hidden for a few generations.

We have failed.

Yet you seem to continually ignore the violence perpetrated by the j/c's (judeo/christians) from the very beginning of thier own religions, Craig.

They took the "promised land" by force after wandering the desert for 40 years.

While the moslems were converting by the sword, Charlemagne & his ilk were doing the very same thing in Europe. This continued way into the 19th & even 20th centuries in the americas, asia, & africa, well after the "militant moslems" had stopped thier campaigns to convert by force. Yet THEY are the violent ones. BLEAGH!

The Pope ruled with an iron fist for centuries.

I think you conveniently forget that all too often, while you keep bringing up the "fact" that islam is a violent religion by its very nature.

You may be interested in "being factual," Craig, but you pick & choose your facts in a very biased fashion every time you try to make a point for christianity.

You also keep labelling me as "liberal" & say I'm "trying to be PC"...LMAO...have you even LOOKED at my posts, man? Do you REALLY think I give a tinker's damn about being PC?

While it may be true that Mohammed was violent, many of those who followed him, & contributed to the Q'uran, were not.

Moses was a murderer before he even started. He then ran the war that took the promised land. David was the Tiger Woods of his day, & a war lord to boot. How many wives did the oh-so-wise Solomon have?

You like to ignore all of that stuff when you attack ppl for thier own life choices & character flaws.

And remember this while you're at it - "god" did not write the modern wedding vows - man did. Even in the j/c faith, marriage was NOT defined as being a union between ONE man & ONE woman! PEOPLE did that, NOT THE CHRISTIAN GOD!

You can keep hammering away at everyone in your zeal to make us all see your light, Craig, but I haven't seen any result as of yet. For all the ineffective words you fling in our direction. Paul still believes as he did when you started in on him. Ditto for Jimmy, Kramer, CF, the list goes on.

As far as I can determine, a man who says things like "I KNOW FOR A FACT that there are more racists in Georgia than D.C" has some serious issues concerning his judgement of others. You continually make broad blanketing statements like that, which prove to me that 1) you're a bigot, & 2) you love to pass judgement perhaps a bit too much, even for a self-proclaimed "christian." You certainly don't speak like a very loving person with words like that flowing out of you.

But you ARE right about one thing - right is right & wrong is wrong. The thing you seem to have problems with accepting is that there are damned few absolutes in life. When you push your beliefs as absolute on others, it just gets tedious, & when you do it in such a wordy fashion, it's beyond dull, & becomes annoying.

You are very far from the fair & unbiased person you claim to be, else you wouldn't have to keep reminding us all of how fair & unbiased you are. Your very absolutist views prohibit you from seeing things clearly or fairly, & you far too often make snap judgements that are way off the mark. You are clearly a feminist, a racist, & there's nothing you can say that will counter your actions in this forum to convince me & others otherwise. Step back & take stock before you respond in your usual knee-jerk manner. Go over your innumerable posts on islam, alone, & tell me you aren't bigoted. You can say it, but that doesn't make it true, Craig. Take care how you label ppl. Craig. It comes back atcha.

But here's what I think: I think they would be good human beings no matter what they believed in, or who they voted for.

You are simply DETERMINED to peg me as a religionist or something. I think I expressed VERY clearly, that God's religion is LOVE. PERIOD!

If ANYONE... gay, straight, republican, democrat, whatever... is LOVING someone (not the FEELING we "call" love, but the ACTION OF LOVE, living UNSELFISHLY, and ACTING UNSELFISHLY) when someone, ANYONE, is practicing that, they are practicing love, and because God is the SOURCE of love, it is GOD LOVING OTHERS - THROUGH THAT PERSON. Whether they realize it or not, whether they understand it or not, and regardless of whatever other sins (and we ALL sin) they may have in their lives.

LOVE IS LOVE

HUMANS CANNOT "CREATE" LOVE.

We cannot "CREATE" anything. We only MANIPULATE what already exists into other forms.

Because we cannot CREATE love, it is coming from somewhere. It it coming from the THE SOURCE... THE WELL-SPRING of love, which is God.

Save your tirades for religionists who care more about PROTOCOL and TRADITIONS than "LOVE"

All I have tried to get you to understand, is that THERE ARE true Christians, who truly FOLLOW CHRIST, and the EXAMPLES OF LOVE, he set for us.

It is CHRIST'S LOVE (GOD'S LOVE) which has changed the world. Not religion. Not even the Bible. What changes the hearts of those who read the Bible, is the TESTIMONY FOUND WITHIN IT'S PAGES of the LOVE OF CHRIST, and His forgiving and sacrificial heart. Those examples were CHANGING HEARTS - HUNDREDS OF YEARS before the Bible was ever canonized.

Christians today have erred, because they have a PHYSICAL BOOK and many have turned it into an IDOL, as if the BOOK was the power of God, and not the LOVE that it chronicles. When natives fashion PHYSICAL IDOLS out of clay or wood, they are doing the SAME THING. WORSHIPPING a PHYSICAL REPRESENTATION of something INVISIBLE. Christians KNOW that this is called IDOLATRY, but they are NOT AWARE that very often, they have committed the SAME ERROR as jungle natives, and have placed their faith in something PHYSICAL rather than SPIRITUAL, because it is just SO MUCH EASIER to worship something TANGIBLE that we can SEE and HOLD isn't it?

I think people who are good human beings are just good no matter what. It's in their neurons to be that way.

That's just a cop out, and completely illogical.

It was pre-planned millions of years ago, that you and I would have this very conversation on Bandmix. People cannot control their behaviors, change their hearts, or change their actions.

Yada, yada, yada...

They do so EVERY day.

How could the BRILLIANCE of how matter is organized, be so absent minded and foolish, to have people PROGRAMMED to be MURDERERS, and after a set amount of time, they are FURTHER PROGRAMMED to then REJECT MURDER and live Holy and Loving and Unselfish lives? Why program them to murder in the first place.

You seem intelligent enough to me... I cannot, for the life of me, understand how you buy into such ILLOGICAL and IDEFENSIBLE positions... like Atheism (as opposed to Agnositicism) and now this one... "We are all programmed and cannot help ourselves from doing what we are programmed to do."

And I think it would actually be easier for a lot of people to be good human beings if there were no religion in the world...

Except for several facts...

1) Most of what you consider "good" behaviors, or laws, or whatever... have their ORIGINS in RELIGION. The concept of LAW ITSELF has it's origin in religious practices. Is not the LAW and ADHERENCE TO LAW one of the biggest factors that makes CIVIL SOCIETIES possible in the first place? Thank religion for that. Think it is good to love people no matter their religion, sexual preferences, politics or anything else? Thank religion for that too. The list goes on.

2) To say something is "right or good" is a MORAL DESIGNATION. The concept of MORALITY is a PURELY RELIGIOUS ONE. There IS NO standard for right and wrong, WITHOUT RELIGION. What determines right and wrong? What makes something MORAL? It is a RELIGIOUS designation, derived from laws, believed to be OUTSIDE of humanity... believed to be SACRED... believed to be HANDED DOWN from GOD (or gods) and THAT is what makes them ABSOLUTE, so that we FOLLOW them, or at least, cannot REMOVE THEM by our own human will.

In other words, without morality being derived from something HOLY and SACRED, then we are only left with HUMANS determining what is LAWFUL or NOT LAWFUL (not moral or immoral) and then those laws enforced, based on MILITARY POWER, or MAJORITY RULE.

Laws which are derived from Military Rule alone, as history shows, can lead to dictatorships and too much power being wielded in the hands of a few, or even ONE INDIVIDUAL.

Laws being derived from MAJORITY RULE is not that much better, when we can see that slavery was tolerated for HUNDREDS OF YEARS because of Majority Rule.

Logic is not sufficient either.

If a country that was predominantly asian, had a minority class, that believed they should have as many babies as possible, yet resources were threatening the entire country, and this minority group REFUSED to stop having children for their religious or cultural beliefs, it may seem logical to exterminate them, for the safety and survival of the larger group, who DOES NOT believe they must have many children, and are willing to practice birth control. I mean hell... Look at China, governed by an Atheistic Political Philosophy called COMMUNISM, and see what it allows them to do. Forced abortions. Limiting each family to ONE CHILD ONLY. Which then creates a population of more males than females, since male children are more "valuable" because they are stronger and can work, and won't be sidetracked for 8 months being pregnant themselves.

Are you a Communist?

Cause that is your PERFECT example of a SECULAR GOVERNMENT, which is NOT HEAVILY INFLUENCED by religion or the morality derived from it.

Think the world is truly better without religion?

Go live in China, for a start. That will get you closer to your dream!



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