General Music Chat

I hate those 'making of' programs. Hardly worth watching it now is it!

LOL

Sorry Chippy.

But it won't ruin it for you.

This movie excells on it's special effects above all else.

The beautiful worlds created, and done all digitally, are simply magnificent.

And 3D is certainly the wave of the future guys!

Get used to it!

COMING SOON to a theater near you:

Alice in Wonderland 3D
Tron 3D
Toy Story II (will be re-released) 3D
Shrek Forever After 3D
Resident Evil - Afterlife 3D
Happy Feet II 3D

And quite literally... DOZENS and DOZENS more!

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Wave of the future, huh?

I'm holding out for 3D porn! In "living" color! For my touch screen! In "smellivision!" With a joystick (oh wait I already have one of them!)...

OMG SOMEONE STOP ME!

My new band will be in 3D, you wait and see! Your Chippy ain't so behind the times he ain't

The message is clear...

"The American Military is PURE EVIL!"

Wow Craig... you totally misread stuff... I feel bad for you.

Jake is very clear in his voice-over at the outset of the film that the operation is not a military one. They are there as mercenaries. Ex-military, yes, but this is a commercial operation. Even when he says that they're now just a bunch of people "working for the company", you can almost hear the distaste when he says it; it's clear that it doesn't sit well with him that things are corporate.

If anything, I thought the message was more that corporations are bad, because they're guided by the dollar sign, and not by morals - greed = evil. If anything, it was a contemporary message, because it's totally relevant to today (Enron, the recent lending meltdown).

I didn't get an anti-military vibe from the film at all. And I'm speaking as a veteran of the Air Force.

I think you let your internal prejudices get in the way on that one.

Colors,

I did find myself searching to be clear about that, because while I did recall that the "mission" was commercial in nature, I couldn't recall whether these were ACTIVE military or not. Thanks for clearing that up.

But the point still stands.

And international crowds are not going to make that disctinction so easily.

The military unit is in control, has little conscience, and is very unified. Aside from the helicopter pilot that joins the rebellion against their own group, it is mostly the GOOD scientists that are on board and seem offended at the utter brutality.

The imagery is more powerful than the small disclaimer presented... i.e. that they are mercenaries. Images stay with us far more than anything else.

It's anti-military and anti-American, and if you cannot see the obvious references to that, I don't know what to say? Maybe YOU are projecting, and are the one determined to have your own agenda shine?

Cameron has the military calling the Navi "terrorists" - So go ahead, craft something to explain that away.

Wow!

It's almost as bad, as when an outdated religion makes you take your brain out of your head, place it on a table for the duration of Sunday service, and put it back in when it's time to leave church.

Just... Wow!

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I didn't get an anti-military vibe from the film at all. And I'm speaking as a veteran of the Air Force.

Yes. A veteran.

colorsFADE right?

Maybe I missed that reference too?

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The military unit is in control, has little conscience, and is very unified.

And within the context of the story, that's logical. I mean, they hired ex-military for a reason: training and loyalty. Military people are trained to be loyal; they can't operate effectively if they're questioning the leadership. If I were in charge of an operation like that one, I'd hire ex-military members as well. I mean, who did you expect them to hire? The Brady Bunch?

It's anti-military and anti-American

I think that's a huge reach.

I didn't find it anti-American. Unless, of course, the "American Way" is to destroy other cultures with rockets and rape their land of precious resources, then yeah, I guess it is an anti-American message... But is that what you think of when you think of America? I sure hope not...

(And yes - I'm as aware as anyone of our actual history...)


Anti-military? I don't see it. The Na'vi had warriors too. The entire 3rd act was a war... you gotta have two armies to make a war...


The "message" that I got out of it was that (a) greed is bad and (b) respect other cultures, because they may, in fact, be more to them than meets the eye.

Cameron has the military calling the Navi "terrorists" - So go ahead, craft something to explain that away.

Everything is a matter of perspective. I am sure, from the perspective of the greedy corporate CEO, those natives seem like terrorists to their operation.


I don't know what else to say Craig. You have a different take on things. I feel sorry for you man. I really do. You find anti-American messages in a film like this... I just feel sorry for you. It must be difficult for you to enjoy anything when you're always looking for the negative in stuff.

Why don't you like SW? She was way cool in Alien and Ghostbusters.

Sigourney? Cool in Alien? She was downright HOT in those panties! (Why do you think that 'ol alien was tryin' so hard to eat her?)

anyways....
as for Avitar, I'll get around to seeing it when someboby loans me a DVD!. (I am looking forward to the soundtrack music, however. Everything James Horner composed for the movies was top notch!)

Howlin'

Everything James Horner composed for the movies was top notch!)

Ditto!

I just feel sorry for you.

You must feel... really reeeaaaaly sorry for me, cause you said that, like three times now. LOL

It must be difficult for you to enjoy anything when you're always looking for the negative in stuff.

I wasn't looking for this bro.

It found ME!

The message boards are FILLED with others who felt the same. And there are those who see it your way as well of course.

I think I shared that my heart is to obey CONSCIENCE over political DIRECTIVES or over COUNTRY even, when that country is engaged in evil.

How do you get from that, to me believing that everything America does has been good or right?

I'm not anybody's monkey.

I seek out the truth, and follow it the best I can when I find it.

I don't buy ANYONE'S party line... EVER!

I investigate and reflect and come to MY OWN conclusions.

This film was POLITICAL and there is no rationally escaping that fact.

People in the audience HOOT in mockery over the TERRORIST line for a reason. THEY GET THE MESSAGE, and it fits with their worldview, whereas I get the message too, and DISAGREE on it's merits, particularly being used in the context of a ficticioud native people, who were INVADED and only took up arms to DEFEND themselves.

Ultra-liberals love Socialism and Communism and often have people like Mao and Che Guevara as HEROES. They admire the poor Vietcong for whipping our asses with lesser means, when they engaged in guerilla warfare to accomplish the feat... and the movie's premise is very similar to a Vietnam style victory over the more powerful foe.

Problem is... Vietnam was a far more questionable and unclear conflict for us to have been involved in, than the war on terror.

And why is it necessary for him to utilize such OBVIOUS analogies?

Because DURING THE MAKING of this movie, 12 years in waiting, what was the DOMINATE story day after day? George Bush's (and his father's before) "Blood for Oil" campaign, of ROBBING the poor people of Iraq of their own resources.

It DOMINATED the headlines for nearly the entire period the movie was in production.

Is Cameon "NOT" going to utilize the power of that movement?

Is that not going to find it's way into the movie's main theme?

Really?


But it is a closer parallel to you, that Enron, and the like were his targets?

ENRON?

Whatever.

Enron engaged in no wars, used no weapons. They pulled the wool over the public's eyes with creative book-keeping, and political connections.

They weren't waging war against a native people, to STEAL their natural resources, which not coincientally, is black as coal... or OIL, and a WAR is fought over those resources? Like blood for oil? America fighting a war over ANOTHER jet black substance.

You are too intelligent to be this dense. Seriously.

I can only presume that it is YOUR politics that have blinded YOU... not mine.

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Everything James Horner composed for the movies was top notch!)

Ditto!

Hey Chris,
I found a little taste on You- Tube!
Sounds like "ol Jimmey" can chalk up another hit composition!

check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY8BeKoK ... re=related

enjoy,
Howlin'

In the beginning of the movie they clearly said they were mercenaries.
I'd be the first one to reach for his S&W if I thought it was anti military or anti American propaganda.
Even the "good guys" were warriors.

Anti "earthlings" greedily screwing up another planet.

That was the political theme.

And dead on freakin accurate.

SW being a big freakin lib, I am sure she thinks she is somehow better than that. Despite being filthy rich herself.

Still, great movie!

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George,

You don't think it is possible he had them be "mercenaries" as a way of getting his political message through, and having an out, without ruffling too many feathers?

The references I mentioned are too numerous for me to believe they were coincidental. Especially that "terrorist" line, which is made, if I recall correctly, BEFORE any uprising from the Navi to defend themselves.

Nevertheless,

If you don't feel that there was a political agenda there, then that goes a long way with me.

My step son had a head injury, before I came into his life, and his mother was told that he may not be able to see things in 3D, like pictures and movies, because of how it affected his eyes, he has a "lazy" eye from the injury. I may be getting wrong how much was his eyes or his brain processing the information correctly, but there was a chance he would not see 3D movies and such, the way we do.

For a good part of the BEGINNING of the movie, I was spending some time asking him questions to make sure he WAS seeing the 3D and enjoying it the way we were.

I think I missed the word "mercenaries" during one of those times my attention was focused on him, and this could have clouded my view... Cause I had WONDERED whether they were mercenaries, but wasn't sure.

Maybe had I caught that from the outset, I wouldn't have taken it as strongly as I did.

Still... I've read alot of message boards where others caught the same REFERENCES throughout the movie as I did, and not just typical customers, but I even saw a movie review that said something like...

"You know the movie must be worth the price of admission, when people will stand up and cheer when their own countrymen are being killed by their own."

But I know you are a patriotic American, and it's good to know that it did not strike you as being anti-American. That leads me to believe that other people... even in other countries, may see it the same way as you.

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Oh I have no doubt about political motivation. After all it came from whoreywood.
But I saw it more as a universal outcry against wanton greed.
Though it would be easy for those whom hate America to construe it any way they like.
I was more focused on enjoying the art and action, the whole story line was just a necessary evil from my point of view. I did not give it much thought, as it wasn't worth much thought to start with.

I mean Good guy working for the bad guys discovers the bad guys are bad guys and switches sides to fight with the good guys against the bad guys because of some poon.

Gee GREAT PLOT LOL

Everything James Horner composed for the movies was top notch!)

Ditto!

Hey Chris,
I found a little taste on You- Tube!
Sounds like "ol Jimmey" can chalk up another hit composition!

check it out...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY8BeKoK ... re=related

enjoy,
Howlin'

Good catch, thanks for linking it. I didn't realize James Horner was inolved in Avatar, but on reflection - 400 million to make it? I guess he had to be I'll have another soundtrack to add to my collection.