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#95781 by CraigMaxim
Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:53 pm
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article6973994.ece

The Sunday Times
January 3, 2010

Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'


Image

Dolphins have been declared the world’s second most intelligent creatures after humans, with scientists suggesting they are so bright that they should be treated as “non-human persons”.

Studies into dolphin behaviour have highlighted how similar their communications are to those of humans and that they are brighter than chimpanzees. These have been backed up by anatomical research showing that dolphin brains have many key features associated with high intelligence.

The researchers argue that their work shows it is morally unacceptable to keep such intelligent animals in amusement parks or to kill them for food or by accident when fishing. Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.

“Many dolphin brains are larger than our own and second in mass only to the human brain when corrected for body size,” said Lori Marino, a zoologist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia, who has used magnetic resonance imaging scans to map the brains of dolphin species and compare them with those of primates.

“The neuroanatomy suggests psychological continuity between humans and dolphins and has profound implications for the ethics of human-dolphin interactions,” she added.

Dolphins have long been recognised as among the most intelligent of animals but many researchers had placed them below chimps, which some studies have found can reach the intelligence levels of three-year-old children. Recently, however, a series of behavioural studies has suggested that dolphins, especially species such as the bottlenose, could be the brighter of the two. The studies show how dolphins have distinct personalities, a strong sense of self and can think about the future.

It has also become clear that they are “cultural” animals, meaning that new types of behaviour can quickly be picked up by one dolphin from another.

In one study, Diana Reiss, professor of psychology at Hunter College, City University of New York, showed that bottlenose dolphins could recognise themselves in a mirror and use it to inspect various parts of their bodies, an ability that had been thought limited to humans and great apes.

In another, she found that captive animals also had the ability to learn a rudimentary symbol-based language.

Other research has shown dolphins can solve difficult problems, while those living in the wild co-operate in ways that imply complex social structures and a high level of emotional sophistication.

In one recent case, a dolphin rescued from the wild was taught to tail-walk while recuperating for three weeks in a dolphinarium in Australia.

After she was released, scientists were astonished to see the trick spreading among wild dolphins who had learnt it from the former captive.

There are many similar examples, such as the way dolphins living off Western Australia learnt to hold sponges over their snouts to protect themselves when searching for spiny fish on the ocean floor.

Such observations, along with others showing, for example, how dolphins could co-operate with military precision to round up shoals of fish to eat, have prompted questions about the brain structures that must underlie them.

Size is only one factor. Researchers have found that brain size varies hugely from around 7oz for smaller cetacean species such as the Ganges River dolphin to more than 19lb for sperm whales, whose brains are the largest on the planet. Human brains, by contrast, range from 2lb-4lb, while a chimp’s brain is about 12oz.

When it comes to intelligence, however, brain size is less important than its size relative to the body.

What Marino and her colleagues found was that the cerebral cortex and neocortex of bottlenose dolphins were so large that “the anatomical ratios that assess cognitive capacity place it second only to the human brain”. They also found that the brain cortex of dolphins such as the bottlenose had the same convoluted folds that are strongly linked with human intelligence.

Such folds increase the volume of the cortex and the ability of brain cells to interconnect with each other. “Despite evolving along a different neuroanatomical trajectory to humans, cetacean brains have several features that are correlated with complex intelligence,” Marino said.

Marino and Reiss will present their findings at a conference in San Diego, California, next month, concluding that the new evidence about dolphin intelligence makes it morally repugnant to mistreat them.

Thomas White, professor of ethics at Loyola Marymount University, Los Angeles, who has written a series of academic studies suggesting dolphins should have rights, will speak at the same conference.

“The scientific research . . . suggests that dolphins are ‘non-human persons’ who qualify for moral standing as individuals,” he said.

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#95783 by philbymon
Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:01 pm
Oh crap...next we'll be saving thier souls & recruiting them into our favorite political party!

Actually, this doesn't really surprize me that much. I have fond memories of "Flipper."

We have much to learn about the problem-solving aspects of other species. Just look at how all the primates in the world started washing thier food simultaneously in recent years...or the maze-work of the octopus...or the communication skills of all of the mammals of the sea...elephant artists (possible rudimentary writing?)...the list goes on

Cracks me up when some ppl think that animals are "lesser beings!"

#95788 by CraigMaxim
Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:37 pm
philbymon wrote:
Cracks me up when some ppl think that animals are "lesser beings!"



Are you a potential canabal then?

Because if animals are equivalent to us, we shouldn't be eating them, and if you believe in their equivalence and STILL eat them, what would stop you from eating one of us? LOL


But I kind of agree with you to a point.

When I look into some animal's eyes, I have "FELT" a connection, a realization that there is something similar to a soul. Perhaps it is the commonality that we are all made from basically the same stuff, but there are thinking feeling beings inside the... "animals" and most of us recognize this, to some degree or another, with our own pets, who we love, care for, begin to recognize their distinct personalities, etc...

It's an amazing mystery.

Dolphins and chimps, but even insects, are very social creatures. An ant colony is amazing, in it's complexity and structure, and the roles and positions each fill. Elephants have been known to bury their own dead, and bury them with flowers, dropping them among their newly buried relatives... almost like a burial ceremony like ours, paying respect, leaving things to be buried with our dead. Some animals mate for LIFE, and never take another mate. Dolphins and other animals have been known to save human beings in danger of dying.

Maybe Jainism has something there?

Still, I find myself killing insects in my home, rather than sweeping them away.

LOL

What to do. What to do?

.

#95791 by Sir Jamsalot
Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:50 pm
CraigMaxim wrote:What to do. What to do?


:)
Microbes are pretty sophisticated too. We should probably refrain from breathing to spare our brothers an untimely death.

^.^

#95795 by CraigMaxim
Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:09 pm
Chris4Blues wrote:
CraigMaxim wrote:What to do. What to do?


:)
Microbes are pretty sophisticated too. We should probably refrain from breathing to spare our brothers an untimely death.

^.^



Yeah, yeah... I know Chris.

I'm not going off the deep end on this, but I know there is something special in the "hearts" "energies" "spirits", whatever... of more complex and advanced species.

And this is something I haven't yet wrapped my head around.

Even what you just said about microbes...

I have pondered on occassion, why the nature of life seems to depend on the INGESTION of something else. In general, all life forms depend on consuming some other life form for survival.

It bothers me.

But it tells me that I don't understand those aspects of CREATION and God's intention and design of it all.

Maybe it is not a "bad" thing that a lower species' cells becomes a part of a higher organism? But where would that end? Would someone of lower intelligence be pleased that I ate them? LOL - I don't think so.

I'm gonna have to spend some time on this at some point, because it is something that I would like to understand.

.

#95799 by Sir Jamsalot
Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:24 pm
CraigMaxim wrote:I have pondered on occassion, why the nature of life seems to depend on the INGESTION of something else. In general, all life forms depend on consuming some other life form for survival.


Reminds me of a question I posed in a biology forum. It got me booted on the basis that they thought I was a troll - but it was a sincere question and I was hoping to get a real answer.

The post-title was "what did the first thingamadoodle eat, how and why?". If the first organism relied on solar energy (a form of photo or heat synthesis, both of which are endless supplies of energy) to operate, what mechanism existed that allowed digestion of organic matter as a supply of energy, and what advantage was there to moving to that organic (cannibalistic) diet in the first place?

Not sparking a debate here, but agreeing with you that looking into this is not a light topic.

Chris

#95800 by chipfryer
Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:26 pm
Long Live The Animals! :D
That includes you.

Told yah Craig. MotherShip is a comin over the hill. Might not be you or I that she does them talkies with. She'll be comin round the mountain when she comes........... She'll be comin round the mountain when she comes. :D

I like Dolph's Leave em alone. They are pretty well natured, clever and are in fact the mankind of the sea.

Don't go picking on an Ant. There may come a day when an ant comes picking on you. Something like that? Anyone remember the band? :wink:

#95802 by RGMixProject
Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:33 pm
Image

#95803 by jimmydanger
Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:35 pm
As we all know it's a brutal world. Things eat other things because it's easier to get nutients necessary for life by consuming your neighbor than lying in the sun. It would take weeks or months to get the same energy from the sun as eating that steak you ate last night. Because of this stuggle for existence, nature devised evolution as the method for a species to change and out-compete other species. Until you understand evolution not much that happens in nature will make sense.

#95804 by chipfryer
Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:37 pm
I agree Jimmy.

Happens in Malls every week.

jimmydanger wrote:As we all know it's a brutal world. Things eat other things because it's easier to get nutients necessary for life by consuming your neighbor than lying in the sun. It would take weeks or months to get the same energy from the sun as eating that steak you ate last night. Because of this stuggle for existence, nature devised evolution as the method for a species to change and out-compete other species. Until you understand evolution not much that happens in nature will make sense.

#95805 by jimmydanger
Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:48 pm
Capitalism emulates nature in many ways. Cell Phone Company A comes out with a new phone that people MUST have; Cell Phone Company B either develops a phone that can compete with A or it dies or gets consumed (merges with) by A. Yes this even happens at the mall; if Shoe Town can sell shoes at 50% of the price of Mr. Sole it will out-compete and consume its rival. Brutal baby!

#95807 by Sir Jamsalot
Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:06 pm
jimmydanger wrote:Things eat other things because it's easier to get nutients necessary for life by consuming your neighbor than lying in the sun.


I think it's a little more complex than that.

If they didn't already have the nutrients necessary to become life (by means of their current solar diet), then how did they get to the "life" stage in the first place?

It doesn't make sense to me that even if the first organism had any sense of itself or it's nutritional needs, it would require sacrificing energy to acquire energy from a foreign resource using some internal ability to locate, consume and then transform into energy that foreign energy source (solar to organic).

It's a little more complex than "just going over there and eating that thingamadoodle" is the point I'm trying to get accross.

#95808 by CraigMaxim
Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:10 pm
.

Jimmy, I agree that the evolutionary process is well-attested to at this point.

Things evolve.

There is sufficient evidence, I believe, to call it FACT.

But my experiences with God are not delusional or imaginary either.

So, I accept evolution as fact, but as a fact that God, the origin of life, initiated and used as a tool for creation.

I'm well grounded in REALITY.

I am not the kind of person to imagine to the point of hallucinations.

I have seen angels once.

I have prayed in a room for hours, that then filled with light so bright that I could not look at it, and had to keep my eyes closed, and even my head down, because the light hurt, even coming through my eyelids, while heat rushed through my body.

I have had God put a MOVIE in my head, of my wife when she was a little girl, and I told her the details of it, all of which she acknowledged as having happened when she was a little girl.

Take just that last one.

How is that possible?

Was I instead tapping into her mind's memories somehow? I didn't see the movie THROUGH her eyes though, I saw it as someone looking AT HER from a slight distance, as if I were standing there watching her.

I KNOW that people survive death, not just from my religious beliefs, but because I happened to be married to a wife, that has talked to several dead people, and I have WITNESSED the loved ones who knew those deceased people, confirm things that ONLY THEY KNEW, and there was NO WAY that my wife could have known these things.

I have communicated with souls who have crossed over, although I don't SEE THEM, just "FEEL" what they are telling me.

THERE -IS- LIFE BEYOND THIS LIFE!

And it graduates to a higher and lighter, more pure, form of "being" as we progress through THREE DISTINCT STAGES:

1) Developing in a womb - Surrounded by WATER/LIQUID.
2) Born into the world - Surrounded by AIR
3) Born into the spiritual world - Surrounded by LOVE.



Three stages.

Born into each, where a LIGHTER and PURER environment sustains us.

It is REAL.

It is a PLAN.


And it is possible to align our lives in accordance with that plan, so we are not wasting the growth offered at each stage.

.

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