This is a MUSIC forum. Irrelevant or disrespectful posts/topics will be removed by Admin. Please report any forum spam or inappropriate posts HERE.

All users can post to this forum on general music topics.

Moderators: bandmixmod1, jimmy990, spikedace

#93794 by jimmydanger
Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:44 am
What I was describing was what I believed happened in the last election. Obama was not my first choice, Clinton was. But I used my vote to vote against McCain, which I believe the majority did as well. Pretty simple.

What we figured out 228 years ago was that we wanted a free country, where you could say what you wanted, believe what you wanted and do what you wanted. Of course this is not exactly the way it is in this country but the ideals are still there. No one, save the French and some Indians, helped us achieve that goal. When the Afghans and the Iraqis want to be free they will rise up and do the same, if not that's their problem.

#93800 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:12 am
Kramer, I think you are as angry, as every American,Sorry to bring your frustrations out. I dont mean to piss off a really good musician, You can call me all kinds of names,I wont do that to you, You are still totally wrong ,Attacking Americans with this made up bull crap .

#93801 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:15 am
YEAH JIMMY,,, lot of really stupid people.

#93844 by Dessalines
Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:43 pm
Kramerguy wrote:I'm no fan of Bush. I actually hated the guy. Everything he did made this country worse.

My issue with Obama although-

1. He promised to revert back to transparency in the white house, including disabling and giving back the prez taking and abusing of powers. Obama has done just as many signing statements as Bush, percentage wise. He's also refused to reign in the justice department and refused to go after corruption within the executive ranks of government. He's done nothing whatsoever but cover-up white house logs and refuse to hold anyone past or present accountable for anything.

That makes him a hypocrite.

2. He allowed and continues to allow the healthcare regime to dictate it's own regulations, policies, and laws.

That makes him a puppet.

3. He promised to execute the will of the people, even when he didn't agree. Then he asked "the people" what was the most important to them, and when decriminalizing pot was the #1 "will" of the people, with over 15 million supporters, he quickly dismissed everyone and moved to #2, healthcare.

That makes him a liar and untrustworthy.

4. He said he would end the wars. He said he would invest in the future, oil independence, wind / solar power, and help the poor and struggling. He's done none of that. He could push congress by speaking to the public about what congress wont do for them, but instead he tip-toes around republicans whimpering about being partisan while they go to the media and scathingly tear him a new one.

That makes him weak and seemingly incapable of action.

Now, I voted for the guy. I'm not hysterical like those "birthers" and the other people who claim he's a raging socialist, commie, or whatever. I'm not teabagging anyone and I'm not waving my gun at town hall meetings.

I'm simply a guy who saw someone campaign on the idea of reversing the bush policies, campaigned on REAL and VIABLE political change. Where's the change??

Just like the last 1,000,000,000 politicians who claim to be campaigning on that platform of change, he lied. Imagine that.

The ONLY difference, and why I'm so vocal about it now is simple:

IMO, this was the last chance that we, as a people, had. We're done. Stick a fork in.

Now, I still have HOPE that something will change. But you know that saying about hoping in one hand and pooping in the other...



For whatever reason, we like to think that a president, once elected, can do whatever he wants. Not so. The art of politics is the art of compromise. The political system created for us by the founders is designed to force compromise. However, we citizens don't really want compromise, we want action and we want it now. This rarely happens, though I note that it did happen after planes flew into buildings and in large measure that is how we have ended up in two wars.

I really could wish for more from the president but to address what you wrote.

His administration is more transparent than most and I've lived through eleven of them to this point.

Signing statements? This is a device for a president to indicate that he believes that a law or parts of a law maybe unconstitutional. They are provided for in the constitution. They have been used more frequently since the presidency of Ronald Reagan but they were always there. What bill s did Obama have issues with? Can you tell me, I would be interested to know.

On health care. I favor a single payer system. I hate the health care debate. Is not about health care reform, its about insurance reform and its all wrong but it was predictable. Over time we have given the status of citizen to entities like corporations. They have rights, such as free speech. I think that as citizens they have more rights than common people do. Politicians pay attention to them because they pay attention to politicians and they have money. How do we compete with that?

On Priorities, such as MJ legalization over health care. I would like to see legalization, I really would for many, many reasons but don't you think that's going to be a hard sell over health care? What poll were you reading because I believe that there is not yet a majority of voters who favor legalization? a Majority of Americans still think its as bad as heroin. Health care on the other hand is a major concern for all, pro or con.

On the wars. The president said he would end the Iraq war. His consistent position on Afghanistan, like it or not was that he would fight there to deny terrorists a failed state to set up in again. We seem to be moving to an exit in Iraq. Good. I think Afghanistan was lost the very day that the decision was taken to invade Iraq for phony reasons.

Investments in alternative energy technology are ongoing. It is happening. Money was provided in the recovery bill for that. Its more than a start and compared to the previous administration. It is indeed a sea change, though it may not be enough progress fast enough for some. I think we need to sell energy independence as a matter of national security. We cannot stay tied to repressive, unstable regimes for our supply of energy

Lastly, and sorry these have been long posts, but all politicians promise more than they can deliver. Their job is dependent on persuading people to vote for them. However, if people really understood how the different branches of government operate, who's responsible for what, then they would be able to realistically be able to filter out the promises that are unrealistic, because either congress will never buy it or the courts will find those items unconstitutional, like campaign reform, which had McCain's name on it but prats of which have been found to be unconstitutional. In addition, if people had a philosophy that informed their vote, one way or the other, then perhaps they would make rational choices instead of emotional ones.

#93863 by Dessalines
Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:28 pm
sanshouheil wrote:Some people just hate. They are driven by greed stupidity and evil.
I know, it's what drives my own hate. I know it's wrong but at times really have difficulty dealing with it.
They dont need for us / US to give them an excuse. It's race / religious hatred pure and simple. The "tribes" of the middle east as well as all other people were infected with it long before America came into existance. They hate because it's all they know.


This is way too simplistic in terms of the tribes of the middle east. Some of those peoples have been around as nations, long before the North American continent was stumbled upon by Europeans. Take the Iranians for example, they used to be called Persians. In historic time the Persians first come into view as a nation, (not tribes), about 550 BC. They built a huge empire, with all the usual technological and artistic advances that are present in civilized societies. They are still with us today, with their language and culture intact, though the religion has changed. In addition, the middle east has a very long history that involves Greeks, Turks, Arabs, Kurds, Armenians and outside of the Arabs, none of those people are tribal, they are nations and have been for a long time..

As far as religion goes, I'm not even sure you've got a good handle on your own, much less theirs. They are not illiterate barbarians. They, just like us, have their good and their bad. As a self described Christian, those are concepts you should understand well, the good, the bad and everybody else that's a bit of both, which based on your post you do seem to understand..

#93868 by Dessalines
Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:45 pm
jimmydanger wrote:What I was describing was what I believed happened in the last election. Obama was not my first choice, Clinton was. But I used my vote to vote against McCain, which I believe the majority did as well. Pretty simple.

What we figured out 228 years ago was that we wanted a free country, where you could say what you wanted, believe what you wanted and do what you wanted. Of course this is not exactly the way it is in this country but the ideals are still there. No one, save the French and some Indians, helped us achieve that goal. When the Afghans and the Iraqis want to be free they will rise up and do the same, if not that's their problem.


Originally for Mrs Clinton myself but a philosophy informs my vote, not personality, so it was an easy switch to make from one centrist democrat to another. Obama is not a liberal, he;s a centrist of a somewhat different stripe than the Clintons but I can see that they are comfortable with each other. He had no qualms about turning foreign policy over to her, talk about self confident.

Tell me why did you vote against McCain?

To some degree what happened 228 years ago here in North America was part tax revolt and part land grab. Our history has dressed it up as something more glorious. You remember, no taxation without representation? Okay, now add to that the fact that many of the founders, signers of the Declaration of Independence, could not wait to lift the restrictions under the British Ordinance of 1763, which prevented colonists from crossing the Allegheny mountains to the west. Once the war was won, there was big money to be made in land speculation west of the mountains, for men like Washington, Franklin, Gouvernuer Morris, Aaron Burr and many others. It was not a philosopher's paradise back there in eighteenth century America, it was a lot like today, capitalist. The more things change the more they remain the same.

By way of example. People could be property back then, It was enshrined in the constitution when slaves, were allowed to be counted as three fifths of a person for the purposes of apportioning electoral college votes and seats in congress. Of course, this disappeared after the Civil war but the language is still there. You can look it up.

#93869 by Dessalines
Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:58 pm
GLENJ wrote:New York is collapsing ,so is New jersey,and California.
Just keep looking the other way.
This not about evil corporations that create REAL goods and services.
This is about power and total control. This is not what America is about.
You can keep on being fed crap from the media ,left and right, this is not going to work.
Some of what I see being posted here is such extreme ,force fed crap, filled with lies distortions and non truths is amazing.
I have started my own campaign, the same way that this administration has.
I will use the same Cleaver rules.
IF you dont tell congress to stop all this nonsense with healthcare, YOU WONT GET ANY. THE SYSTEM in place now will COLLAPSE. Doctors and Nurses will just QUIT.
If you dont tell congress to stop all this nonsense with global warming, YOUR NEXT ELECTRIC BILL IS GOING TO BE $1000 INSTEAD OF $300.
This list is way to long ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE ABOUT TO BE KLOCKED.
Gotta stop now , finger starting to feel better, may have to raise it.



Gee, you're a whole bunch of fun. My next electric billwill be about $150.00. Sorry you're paying so much.

Too funny. When is the world ending?

#93870 by jimmydanger
Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:00 pm
Tell me why did you vote against McCain?

At one time I actually liked McCain, and considered voting for him until he chose Palin. After that I gave up on him, he seemed weak and I can't stand Palin. Nuff said.

#93902 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:24 am
GEE desalines , What do you think is so funny.
I love people like you that stick in a smartass comment without any justification. I'm glad you only had a 150 electric bill,,Sorry you live in a one room flat with a bucket for a bathroom, and you play a 10watt pignose.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests