General Music Chat

Me thinks you missed my point Krammer.

My comment was only in reguard to the now strangely absent anti war movement.
Not whom was responsible for or the right or wrong of the war in general.

I believe WAR should be conducted as such and never a "police action".
I dont believe in WAR CRIMES. The purpose of WAR is to kill your enemy.
Men, women, children, animals, and crops.
An army should destroy everything they dont eat or wipe their asses with.
That should be the only "rule of engagement"
Thats how its done.
Thats crime enough.

I think the anti-war movement got tired of getting tasered, arrested, pepper sprayed en mass, even during peaceful protests - people's babies were gassed intentionally and ruthlessly.

The "riot" police in this country are out of control and getting worse. You CANT protest anymore, we can all thank GWB for legalizing "free speech zones" for that.

The only people allowed to protest now are angry rednecks holding guns, teabags, or both. Nascar bumper sticker required for parking validation.

I for one do not want our country involved in any war action that is not a direct result of an attack on our soil. I'm not happy that Obama has committed additional troups to Afghanistan, but at the same time I want bin Laden captured or dead. I'm willing to give the president some time to do this. If he fails I will be protesting him as vigorously as I did W.

Bottom line: War sucks. We shouldn't have gotten involved, but now that we have, focus on getting out is important. The fact that Obama has decided to increase the amount of troops in Afghanistan should not be accredited solely to him either. It's the fact that the war in Afghanistan went largely ignored and magically vanished from even the common news reports for a long time during Bush's administration that should be considered. The Obama administration upped the troop count because as I understand we were losing quite badly due to the prior ignorance. Rather than make the efforts and lost lives vain, the other option was clear.

However, regardless of how understandable that is, these are still lives in the balance. Yes, I also understand that many of the people who fight are willing to end their lives for their country, but I think the entire process has been perverted by the lust for wealth.

That, and I positively hate the entire prospect of killing. I would love to settle disagreements simply by staying out of one another's hair, or just talking. Further speaking, to remove any sense of honor from it is absolutely foul, and I can't imagine that anyone could even speak in such terms. Why involve people who don't want the war in the first place? To those of you who think in such a way, place yourselves in these people's shoes: Imagine the military of a foreign power in YOUR hometown, killing everything in sight. Imagine them mercilessly ending the lives of your loved ones just because they want to subdue the leaders of your nation, with whom you DON'T even agree in the least. Does that sound like a good situation to you? Would you like to lay your life down for that? I sure wouldn't. Thank you.

this is why they hate america-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCmYrSgs ... re=related

Hey I hear ya Dess-

Just frustrated with the lack of 'change'.. I really thought this election was going to be the first step towards real and viable solutions to problems vs. the status quo we've been hindered by ever since reagan took over almost 30 years ago.

And you are right, of course- We have one party that is run by wealthy propagandists, and consists of brainwashed idiots, and another party that is just "liberals" from all walks of life that have nothing much in common, and therefore cannot unite under a common banner.

No I'm not committing suicide, and I'm not giving up my views or lifestyle, but I'm certainly giving up trying to talk sense into the crazies out there.

What kind of changes did you want to see or is it the things that you have seen that you don't see as change?

President Bush had eight years to get us to where we stood on the morning od 01/20/2009. President Obama has been in office for less than one year and he like any president has to work with the other co-equal branches of government. I could go on at length but I'll spare you.

I'm no fan of Bush. I actually hated the guy. Everything he did made this country worse.

My issue with Obama although-

1. He promised to revert back to transparency in the white house, including disabling and giving back the prez taking and abusing of powers. Obama has done just as many signing statements as Bush, percentage wise. He's also refused to reign in the justice department and refused to go after corruption within the executive ranks of government. He's done nothing whatsoever but cover-up white house logs and refuse to hold anyone past or present accountable for anything.

That makes him a hypocrite.

2. He allowed and continues to allow the healthcare regime to dictate it's own regulations, policies, and laws.

That makes him a puppet.

3. He promised to execute the will of the people, even when he didn't agree. Then he asked "the people" what was the most important to them, and when decriminalizing pot was the #1 "will" of the people, with over 15 million supporters, he quickly dismissed everyone and moved to #2, healthcare.

That makes him a liar and untrustworthy.

4. He said he would end the wars. He said he would invest in the future, oil independence, wind / solar power, and help the poor and struggling. He's done none of that. He could push congress by speaking to the public about what congress wont do for them, but instead he tip-toes around republicans whimpering about being partisan while they go to the media and scathingly tear him a new one.

That makes him weak and seemingly incapable of action.

Now, I voted for the guy. I'm not hysterical like those "birthers" and the other people who claim he's a raging socialist, commie, or whatever. I'm not teabagging anyone and I'm not waving my gun at town hall meetings.

I'm simply a guy who saw someone campaign on the idea of reversing the bush policies, campaigned on REAL and VIABLE political change. Where's the change??

Just like the last 1,000,000,000 politicians who claim to be campaigning on that platform of change, he lied. Imagine that.

The ONLY difference, and why I'm so vocal about it now is simple:

IMO, this was the last chance that we, as a people, had. We're done. Stick a fork in.

Now, I still have HOPE that something will change. But you know that saying about hoping in one hand and pooping in the other...

Some people just hate. They are driven by greed stupidity and evil.
I know, it's what drives my own hate. I know it's wrong but at times really have difficulty dealing with it.
They dont need for us / US to give them an excuse. It's race / religious hatred pure and simple. The "tribes" of the middle east as well as all other people were infected with it long before America came into existance. They hate because it's all they know.

Some people just hate. They are driven by greed stupidity and evil.
I know, it's what drives my own hate. I know it's wrong but at times really have difficulty dealing with it.
They dont need for us / US to give them an excuse. It's race / religious hatred pure and simple. The "tribes" of the middle east as well as all other people were infected with it long before America came into existance. They hate because it's all they know.

*Sigh* It's that kind of attitude that justifies the "holier-than-thou" big-headedness we Americans take upon our shoulders. And then we end up doing more than judging: We execute our judgments through violence. That is absolutely NOT what we need to be as a world power, and I think that's what is making the United States of America so far fallen from its graces.

@Kramer: Pot's a touchy issue. I can see why he, as a politician, would steer away from it. In his position I might be inclined to do the same. He himself might even want it legalized, but not as much as he wants to remain in office, I'm sure. I can guarantee there would be a LOT more controversy if he started trying to get marijuana legalized.

That aside, I think that what you say is indeed true. Obama seems to be too afraid to crush a few of the eggshells he's standing on to do much of anything. There's should be some sort of greater vocalization of those needs rather than the rabble-rousers crying "Socialist" at every corner. The problem is, there's no-place to turn to that won't feed you lies by the spoonful. Well, in this country, anyway.

Kramer, Why do you keep bashing Reagan? He led us out of period of extreme inflation ,extreme mortgage rates [18+ %] extreme unemployment rates,[12+%] . He got the hell off the backs of big corps and small business a gave them tax reductions....... In turn ,business put people back to work creating real jobs creating real goods and service.Creating a LARGE tax base. He made our country safer than it had been since the nuclear threat of the sixties.
Please dont include Ronnie with his VP. We all know the history of the Bush, Clinton ,Bush , Era. TAX AND SPEND. If you don't have a good paying job,,,,Move to Washington, Kiss Obamas butt, and your in. HAHAHA.

It is so simple and so many miss the point our founding fathers pointed out.
BIG govt = small economy.Everyone loses in the end.
small govt=big economy ,everyone prospers in the end.

Tax laws. It is a tax code. it is so complicated ,,,, I have personally run into this,,, NOBODY KNOWS. Would you mind paying anyway?

I for one do not want our country involved in any war action that is not a direct result of an attack on our soil. I'm not happy that Obama has committed additional troups to Afghanistan, but at the same time I want bin Laden captured or dead. I'm willing to give the president some time to do this. If he fails I will be protesting him as vigorously as I did W.

Uhhhm, Afghanistan is a war action that is a direct result of an attack on our soil.
Send the troops, do the job right.
Capture Bin Laden, and strip him of all chance to be a martyr or a hero.
Destroy their opium trade.
Come home.

You guys do realize that we have already committed to two war fronts?
Right or not, we cant afford to pussyfoot around anymore.
War is hell, so unleash it and be done with it.

Due to the great efforts of Reagan & Carter, you can no longer sue your employer for gross negligence resulting in death or dismemberment or ilness. Their combined efforts to make this a "free economy" have resulted in the biggest crimes against the ppl by the big corporations in our history.

There must be checks against rampant criminal acts, & there must be payment when damage is done to an individual or an entire society. Those 2 removed those checks.

Their successors have done nothing to help the current situation, which was caused by those 2 misguided immature naive oafs. In fact, they have joined in whole-heartedly in the selling off of American jobs through NAFTA & other stupid trade agreements.

You keep screaming about how great the American corporation is, without seeing the real picture, Glen. The superpowers of our economy have no checks anymore, & our present idjit in chief, like the last, is rewarding their crimes with bailouts after they've stolen from the ppl!

We need financial overseers to keep the thieves in check. We need environmental overseers to keep the thieves in check. We need the FDA to truly check out our drugs & food additives to keep the thieves in check. We need to enforce the laws concerning trusts & monopolies to keep the thieves in check. There need to be those laws & the enforcement thereof to keep things fair for the ppl. Rampant capitalism is just as bad as the nazis or the socialists or the commies or the dictators, because lives are daily being ruined, ppl are being hurt & even killed by corporations gone wild. In the last 100 years, those laws were written, enforced, & then ignored as larger companies bribed their way into the politicians' hearts for naught but corporate profit.

We are gouged at the gas pump, gouged at the pharmacy, gouged at the hospital, gouged at the grocery store, while our gov't works to make it more & more difficult for others to join in the profits by unfair taxing & the fleecing of the American public by the insurance companies.

Small businesses are becoming a thing of the past, yet the huge conglomerates continue to thrive at the cost of our health, our savings, our homes & businesses.

As we turn to a global market, we are ignoring the local levels of our economy, & they are being swept away like dust motes as companies grow ever larger & take yet more control of it all, with few if any checks or balances. It's as if the powers that be want us all to work for resorts in this country, as that becomes the only industry left to us as a ppl.

If we leave things in the hands of major corporations, the middle class will be erased, & we will all become slaves to the global humungicorporations, who are owned by so very few, & they will be the new world leaders, not the politicians, & certainly not the ppl.

I hate Reagan as much as I hate GWB, for the damage he did to us all.

Kramer, Why do you keep bashing Reagan? He led us out of period of extreme inflation ,extreme mortgage rates [18+ %] extreme unemployment rates,[12+%] . He got the hell off the backs of big corps and small business a gave them tax reductions....... In turn ,business put people back to work creating real jobs creating real goods and service.Creating a LARGE tax base. He made our country safer than it had been since the nuclear threat of the sixties.
Please dont include Ronnie with his VP. We all know the history of the Bush, Clinton ,Bush , Era. TAX AND SPEND. If you don't have a good paying job,,,,Move to Washington, Kiss Obamas butt, and your in. HAHAHA.

Reagan deregulated big corps, and unions were intentionally broken and marginalized; “free trade” policies shipped manufacturing jobs abroad; old neighborhoods were decaying Companies walk all over their employees today, especially in corporate america.

Reagan created an experiment known as "supply side" economics, which held falsely that cutting rates for the rich would increase revenues and eliminate the federal deficit. Over the years, "supply side" would evolve into a secular religion for many on the Right, but Reagan's budget director David Stockman once blurted out the truth, that it would lead to red ink "as far as the eye could see."

Reagan held a hostile attitude regarding the environment, including removing the solar panels from the white house roof, mocking the 'conservation' that Carter worked desperately on in resolving the energy crisis that the Ford/Nixon destructors had left him with.

Reagan "beefed up" arms races, toppled countries, authorized several military actions (especially in south america) and made the military industrial complex rich beyond their dreams with continous conflicts, the Iran-contra TREASON, star-wars, futuristic helicopters that couldn't even be built with current technologies, etc..

While he played the role of the nation’s kindly grandfather, his operatives divided the American people, using “wedge issues” to deepen grievances especially of white men who were encouraged to see themselves as victims of “reverse discrimination” and “political correctness.”

Before Reagan, corporate CEOs earned less than 50 times the salary of an average worker. By the end of the Reagan-Bush-I administrations in 1993, the average CEO salary was more than 100 times that of a typical worker. (At the end of the Bush-II administration, that CEO-salary figure was more than 250 times that of an average worker.)

The only good thing I can credit the guy with was when the USSR internally collapsed, he didn't invade and try to claim it as his own.

But let's face the truth, Reagan's policies of deregulation, unfettered capitalism, tyranny, cronyism, and greed have led us to this pile of cow pudding we call an economy today.

Nothing I've typed here will make a difference though, as I've noticed that truth gets ignored when it's inconvenient to the right wing. I could present references and waste my time all day doing it, but we both know you won't change your opinion, and I can't change history.

A major reason that the USSR collapsed was due to that guy.
They died trying to keep up with the joneses.
We basically bankrupted the soviet union.

Put that in your hippy peace pipe and smoke it, you blouse wearing poodle walker.

Just kidding.

I'm not a fan of the effect he had on corporate america either.

I think it was the afghan war that bankrupted them

Hmm where are we at war now?

History is doomed to repeat itself. You can't fight a people who have nothing to lose, and you can't keep fighting a war where every innocent person you kill breeds 2-10 terrorists (family members who want revenge) against you.

Did nobody watch that link I posted?