General Music Chat

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091209/REVIEWS/912099993

I'm pretty sure I'm going to see this in my lifetime. I fear for my kids' lives and the world they'll be left with.

The math is pretty simple and undeniable. Eventually, we'll run out.

Near the end of the review:

Like I say, you do the math. Ruppert has done his math, and he concludes that our goose is cooked. He doesn't have any answers. We're passing the point of diminishing returns on the way to our rendezvous with the point of no return. It was nice while it lasted.

Wow... talk about a depressing thought...

We (humans) totally brought this onto ourselves.

Wow... talk about a depressing thought...

We (humans) totally brought this onto ourselves.

The scary part, to me at least, is how our world is going to look when all the oil is gone. When resources get scarce, people get crazy. I am beginning to think that the folk stockpiling weapons might not have such a bad plan... because you're going to want to protect yourself.

When horse drawn carriages and travel-by-horseback becomes the major form of transportation again, our lives will change dramatically... And the people who prepare for that eventuality will have a leg up.

What's funny is I've talked to people who actually believe that the earth constantly renews its supply of oil. That may or may not be true, but it takes millions of years to produce and we're using it up far faster than it can be made. Oil is made from the decomposed bodies of living things; we are the future oil.

Maybe we should all quit washing our hair and use the oil from that. YUCK!!!

See my other post about hair.
(Eating Icon)

Maybe we should all quit washing our hair and use the oil from that. YUCK!!!

What's funny is I've talked to people who actually believe that the earth constantly renews its supply of oil. That may or may not be true, but it takes millions of years to produce and we're using it up far faster than it can be made. Oil is made from the decomposed bodies of living things; we are the future oil.

Actually, there's some debate about that (oil having biological origins)

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/20955/Conventional_Wisdom_Regarding_Oil_Origins_May_Be_Wrong.html

“Why don’t the text books show the oil transformation formulas specifying in equation form the amount of pressure that must be applied over what period of time? Where do we find the exact chemical formulae under which ancient leaves and bones became hydrocarbon petroleum? Where is the laboratory experimental proof?”

It's an interesting scientific dilemma. It seems to me the truth is actually unknown.

But whether oil has biological or origins or other origins, I think that common sense still gives us a reason to be alarmed: our planet has a finite size, and even if oil is renewable, it cannot renew as fast as we're using it. And with the emergence of 3rd world nations like China now pushing the demand for oil to heights never before realized, we're in a serious pickle.


We have to start doing serious research and development on non-oil-based energy sources TODAY. Otherwise, it seems likely we're headed for a self-inflicted doomsday energy crisis. I mean... just imagine if the oil really did dry up. Or worse - what happens if the governments and world powers finally start to realize this, and they begin to control and ration it? What happens when only the super-elite wealthy can actually own and use petroleum?

There's so many things to think about, so many ramifications to this mess... It's staggering to think about it.

Teach your kids math and science and hope they can think of alternative fuels...

Um, did you read the entire article? It also states that we are finding more oil than ever, that we'll never run out and that people who say otherwise are "alarmists". And oil contains organic artifacts because it picks them up on the way to the surface from the mantle? Are you kidding me? The mantle is molten rock, not oil. Unbelievable.

In addition to Peak oil,

Other things like overpopulation and GW also factor in as variables. The best scientists agree that the planet doesn't have adequate space or resources to support 7 billion people, yet we are less than one generation away from that right now.


There really is no hope for change, no turning back, and no possibility of getting through this the easy way.
We knew it was a problem in the 60's, and our leaders ignored it.
We knew it was a problem in the 70's, and our leaders ignored it.
We knew it was a problem in the 80's, and our leaders ignored it.
We knew it was a problem in the 90's, and our leaders ignored it.
We knew it was a problem in the 00's, and our leaders still ignored it.

It's too late. We sat on our hands and did nothing, now there's nothing that can be done.

I'm not saying it to be alarmist, I'm just repeating what my eyes and heart tell me... that we're too stupid to NOT genocide ourselves. I think that people who hide in caves and stockpile food, guns, and ammo, are probably the only forward-thinkers in the world today.

99% of all species who have ever lived on this planet are extinct. What are the odds we will not be one of them? Like I said, we are the future oil.

I was hoping that NASA would get us onto another rock sooner than later lol. Guess not.

Um, did you read the entire article? It also states that we are finding more oil than ever, that we'll never run out and that people who say otherwise are "alarmists". And oil contains organic artifacts because it picks them up on the way to the surface from the mantle? Are you kidding me? The mantle is molten rock, not oil. Unbelievable.

I read the whole article Jimmy.

I think that's what's kind of fascinating about it - you can't read an article like that think for one second that you have the 100% absolute truth about anything.

We were all taught things in grade school that we later learned were wrong. That's science. That's the world we live in. So why should this be any different?


So, it presents an interesting challenge to us and to experts alike. It makes you realize that you don't know jack, and who really does? And if we can admit to our own ignorance about these sorts of things, then maybe we can approach them with a more open mind and try and figure out ways to actually analyze stuff better and more accurately so that we CAN know something with a certain degree of certainty.


I know for myself, I don't know anything about oil, the earth's lower layers, or the size and range of our oil fields. I rely on what others tell me, through media or publications. But how much of that is fact? When someone told me in grade school that oil was made of dead dinosaurs, my B.S. detector went off - even back then! But even though I might not believe oil has a biological origin, I have no proof - I'm not a scientist in that field. I don't know. So that's not a scientific thing.

Also, I've never been down into the earth's core. I have no idea what is really down there. I rely on others who claim to be experts... They could be wrong too...



That's the thing... we read stuff and we believe it, but the people who published those things could be wrong. So the only smart thing to do is never accept anything as a known fact right away and without further proof.


My own feelings is that oil probably isn't created by dead dinosaurs... it seems ludicrous and it doesn't jive with the evidence and it just feels wrong. But even IF oil is not created by biological means and is produced some other way deep down in the Earth, I think the chances that such a thing can happen rapidly - and that our oil fields can replenish themselves at the rate we're using them up - that seems absurd to me.


The bottom line is that we have a finite sized planet with a finite set of resources. And while some resources may be renewable, relying on that renewing is a bad idea. The renewable process could take billions of years - we don't know. I think it's way more likely that we're going to tap our resources sooner rather than later, and then our world will change radically, and not for the better.

It worries me that some cry "alarmist"... to me, it seems like a solid way to act - to be prepared instead of ignoring it...

Dinosaurs were one of the most successful groups of animals ever, spanning three major epochs (nearly 200 million years). That's a lot of dino carcasses, some of which were buried and eventually turned into oil. In comparison man has been around for only 100,000 to 5 million years, depending on where you draw the hominid line.

Well it doesn't really matter much how oil originated, the point is, we are rapidly using it up.

Petroleum is from single cell organisms. Bacteria, algae and such.
It is stored in permeable and porus rock formations trapped by geologic faults, salt domes etc. There are vast untapped resourses of petroleum.
And I am sure much more undiscovered. Most is parafin based some asphalt. Of various viscosity and properties.
Yes we will run out eventually. But I believe an population "adjustment" from disease or famine will occure way before petroleum truly becomes scarce.
Now, we have long ago outstreatched our refining capability.
A whole nother subject.

This George Carlin rant may focus on a slightly different topic, but it's his take on people worrying about EVERYTHING that ties together with this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOOc5yiIWkg