General Music Chat

It was announced today that Bank of America is paying back to the U.S. government the 45 BILLION dollars they received from TARP. I want that money divided equally among the U.S. taxpayers and sent back to us IMMEDIATELY as a rebate. I don't want that money spent ANY OTHER WAY. IT'S MY MONEY DAMMIT. Assuming there's 300 million U.S. taxpayers that works out to $1500 per taxpayer (if my math is correct). Now Lame Duck Obama is talking about some kind of tax break for small business. First the U.S. passes a 700 Billion dollar stimulus (which apparently isn't working) and now Lame Duck Obama is talking about TAX BREAKS? Why didn't the government just pass tax breaks to begin with? Unfuc*ingbelievable!

I know this is all really frustrating Bob. And you are not alone.
But you cannot apply the rule of common sense to the wrangling of power brokers. It's not like you and I determining which bill gets paid this payday and which will wait till the next.
I myself have decided to pay more attention to politics at the local and State level for now. As well as make some attempts to prepair to weather the comming finacial blood bath with my family and friends.
The sleeping giant of liberty and honesty has rolled over and farted.
Lets hope he comes fully awake in the next two years.


P.S.
What ever happened to Code Pinko, and all those "thousands" of anti war protesters?
I guess it is ok to send more of our sons and daughters to die in the desert as long as your a democrat.

You really need to find a better nickname Bob. Technically, a lame duck is someone who still holds office after the opposing party has won an election. Obama still has three years left in his term as the most powerful man on the planet, and that's the minimum if the Republicans don't get their shyt together. If they nominate Palin you could see Obama for the next 7 years.

why blame just one man?

Let's face the truth- Nobody in washington gives a sh*t about us. Nobody.

I think it's time for all Americans to be pissed and start standing up to all politicians and corporations (especially banks) and demand honest representation.

Blaming Obama is like Blaming bush (which I did for about 6 years of his presidency).. it's obviously pointless and won't change anything. Obama is nothing more than a corporate mouth-piece, just like his predacessor, and his replacement, regardless of WHO that is, will also be exactly the same thing. The election machine in this country is completely corrupted and fraudulent. No honest man get's past the door guards and into an election anymore. You have to prove you are corrupt first, by participation.

Nothing will change until the people UNITE and stand against the cronyism and corruption - from federal to state to local. Time to get the pitchforks and torches, seriously. Until then, expect to continue to bleed from the anus.

You're making a political point aren't you? Why?

I guess it is ok to send more of our sons and daughters to die in the desert as long as your a democrat.

I'm really disappointed to read this from you.

it's disheartening.

I was against BOTH wars from the very beginning. I knew that reaction was exactly what the 'turrists' wanted.. their recruitment is WAY UP since we waged war on them.

Did you forget that it was a republican president and a republican congress that waged those wars to begin with? Did you forget the lies we were fed in order to NOT protest en mass?? Americans would have never let them happen, had we known the truth. Never.


But you've forgotten that it has nothing to do with republicans or democrats, it's politicians, and the MIC (military industrial complex). War is profit. There's no jobs in peace for these people. There's no Yacht upgrade for their corporate execs when nobody wants to buy their bombs and guns and planes and tanks. There's no shipyard needed to build more aircraft carriers, and no need to pay tens of thousands of technology experts to come up with new ways to taser large crowds from a distance or to cause writhing pain from an orbiting satellite (yes, they've actually invented a heat ray and it's been successfully tested on protesters)

it's disheartening.

why blame just one man?

Let's face the truth- Nobody in washington gives a sh*t about us. Nobody.

I think it's time for all Americans to be pissed and start standing up to all politicians and corporations (especially banks) and demand honest representation.

Blaming Obama is like Blaming bush (which I did for about 6 years of his presidency).. it's obviously pointless and won't change anything. Obama is nothing more than a corporate mouth-piece, just like his predacessor, and his replacement, regardless of WHO that is, will also be exactly the same thing. The election machine in this country is completely corrupted and fraudulent. No honest man get's past the door guards and into an election anymore. You have to prove you are corrupt first, by participation.

Nothing will change until the people UNITE and stand against the cronyism and corruption - from federal to state to local. Time to get the pitchforks and torches, seriously. Until then, expect to continue to bleed from the anus.

Yes, but you keep up on things don't you? I'll bet you vote and I'll bet that your reading and keeping up informs you're vote. On that basis you are doing what a citizen should do in a democratic republic. Could you do more. Sure but do you want to? Do you have the time? Do you really have the inclination? These are questions I ask myself. Often.

Your post suggests that you think that people united can make a difference. Aren't people united around a political idea or philosophy a political party? We have two. Do we need more? Who will build them? Creation of a political party means work and leadership. Someone has to lead and organize. Lots of work. It just doesn't just happen. I see this as the problem with a lot of political rants on boards like these. Not you per se but for a lot of folks, they yell loud but they don't want to work for their ideas, assuming of course that they're not just shilling for an already established party.

Final thoughts. The republicans, (I am not one), are definitely a political party. Hate them or dislike them they are a party indeed. Until recently, all going in the same direction for the same goals, people united. I'm thinking tea bagger here, they are really a new party but they are giving establishment republicans fits. and that's their current problem.

Democrats are not really a party, They are a collection of groups that have their own issue or issues, some of which sometimes intersect and sometime don't. This is recently exemplified by the addition of
anti- abortion language in the health bill. Women in the democratic party would rather vote down the health care bill, which SUPPOSEDLY benefits the wider society, rather than give ground on THEIR core issue. Still democrats say they are a big tent. A big tent cannot be an EFFECTIVE political party and that's their problem, its always messy.

Do you think the abortion language in the healthcare bill was an accident?

It's called a 'wedge' issue for good reason.

Americans cannot unite so long as they are divided. Abortion, war, drug policy, oil drilling, and countless other issues (mainly ANY issue that garners an emotional response) are used against average americans every day.

This has been the case since the earliest settlements in america. Even back in the 1600's, the 'power elite' knew they were outnumbered 10-1, and they knew that they had to keep the indentured servants from forming an alliance with blacks or indians, so they kept all three 'wedged' against each other.

Back then, it was easy too, racism was alive and well.

Now it's more about moral values, distorting science and religion with half-truths, using clever methods to make immigration about health care and abortion about christianity and gays rights about armed forces and war about global warming. They will use anything and everything to keep the people from uniting.

THere really are no parties anymore. The republicans claim to be fiscally responsible, yet the highest percentage of debt increases during any presidencies have been during the reagan and bush II presidencies.

Democrats claim to be about liberty and freedoms, yet they lined up to sign the most unconstitutional and oppressive legislation to ever exist in this country- the patriot act.

Both parties accept bribes in the form of campaign donations from private industry, and guaranteed jobs with those firms, or on the lucrative lecture circuit which is owned and operated by said industries. None of them represent the people any more than I represent arab oil interests.

When it comes to politics it's a choice of 'the lesser of two evils". Which party least represents your views? Vote against that candidate. Having only two parties limits the ability to choose someone who represents all of your beliefs. I personally am sick of pouring money into countries that I don't care about and who don't care about us. Let them figure it out on their own like we did.

I know I would not want his job. I'm not clever enough for a start. He did inherit a whole mess didn't he but I notice the more hard line approach has been dropped somewhat from his campaign.

I'm just a minnow and I need a proper Job. Not a fly by night employ you for 3 weeks then scuff you so you cannot claim should we get rid of you Job.
I think that's we all are to some degree right?

You either own your own business or you work for someone. Me, I like to get a check every two weeks. Plus, I work 8 hours and go home, leaving it at the office until the next day.

Do you think the abortion language in the healthcare bill was an accident?

It's called a 'wedge' issue for good reason.

Americans cannot unite so long as they are divided. Abortion, war, drug policy, oil drilling, and countless other issues (mainly ANY issue that garners an emotional response) are used against average americans every day.

This has been the case since the earliest settlements in america. Even back in the 1600's, the 'power elite' knew they were outnumbered 10-1, and they knew that they had to keep the indentured servants from forming an alliance with blacks or indians, so they kept all three 'wedged' against each other.

Back then, it was easy too, racism was alive and well.

Now it's more about moral values, distorting science and religion with half-truths, using clever methods to make immigration about health care and abortion about christianity and gays rights about armed forces and war about global warming. They will use anything and everything to keep the people from uniting.

THere really are no parties anymore. The republicans claim to be fiscally responsible, yet the highest percentage of debt increases during any presidencies have been during the reagan and bush II presidencies.

Democrats claim to be about liberty and freedoms, yet they lined up to sign the most unconstitutional and oppressive legislation to ever exist in this country- the patriot act.

Both parties accept bribes in the form of campaign donations from private industry, and guaranteed jobs with those firms, or on the lucrative lecture circuit which is owned and operated by said industries. None of them represent the people any more than I represent arab oil interests.

Kramer,

Of course I know its not an accident, I know what a wedge issue is.

My discourse on party was in response to your statement about people uniting. They would unite is they actually understood how the political system was set up to work. I think the founders despite being people of their time gave us a pretty good system but its being manipulated as you have described

As a historian by way of passion, since I was seven years old, (and that was along time ago), I know all the cynical facts you cited and much more. My rear view mirror looks back some ten thousand years. However, life went on then and it goes on now and we don't just quit. I suspect that you're not going to throw up your hands and commit suicide anymore than I have and sometimes that seems like it would be sweet relief from all the dumb s__t I see out here in web land and elsewhere.

What I was trying to get at is that political parties are necessary, especially now, because people are so divided. They are divided by issues they care about, right or left, wedge or not, right or wrong. They believe... People should be creating new parties to challenge the parties that are entrenched and entrenched they surely are. The two existing parties make it as hard as they can for new ones to form and be recognized but its not impossible, its hard. It requires lots of work and leaders. The leaders get co-opted into what exists and most people do not want to do the work that would be required to bring a new party into existence. Right now we've only got one real party as a party is defined and its not one I could ever join.

In the early 90's I watched friends of mine try to make Ross Perot's pseudo party into something. However, that effort was taken over by people they had no ideological connection to and of course, the leadership, Perot, abandoned them once he had gotten what he wanted, revenge against George H. W. Bush.

Don't give up hope. In that direction lies infinite darkness. Go slow man.

BTW, do you know where Emlenton is? My mother used to live there. Nice country, right along the Allegheny river.

Hey I hear ya Dess-

Just frustrated with the lack of 'change'.. I really thought this election was going to be the first step towards real and viable solutions to problems vs. the status quo we've been hindered by ever since reagan took over almost 30 years ago.

And you are right, of course- We have one party that is run by wealthy propagandists, and consists of brainwashed idiots, and another party that is just "liberals" from all walks of life that have nothing much in common, and therefore cannot unite under a common banner.

No I'm not committing suicide, and I'm not giving up my views or lifestyle, but I'm certainly giving up trying to talk sense into the crazies out there.

The Obama speech today accepting his Nobel Peace Award sounded like it was written by George W. Bush. This is getting insane....

Me thinks you missed my point Krammer.

My comment was only in reguard to the now strangely absent anti war movement.
Not whom was responsible for or the right or wrong of the war in general.

I believe WAR should be conducted as such and never a "police action".
I dont believe in WAR CRIMES. The purpose of WAR is to kill your enemy.
Men, women, children, animals, and crops.
An army should destroy everything they dont eat or wipe their asses with.
That should be the only "rule of engagement"
Thats how its done.
Thats crime enough.