General Music Chat

The economy is so bad that I got a pre-declined credit card in the mail.
The economy is so bad I ordered a burger at McDonalds and the kid behind the counter asked, "Can you afford fries with that?"
The economy is so bad that CEO's are now playing miniature golf.
The economy is so bad if the bank returns your check marked "Insufficient Funds," you call them and ask if they meant you or them.
The economy is so bad Hot Wheels and Matchbox stocks are trading higher than GM.
The economy is so bad McDonalds is selling the 1/4 ouncer.
The economy is so bad parents in Beverly Hills fired their nannies and learned their children's names.
The economy is so bad a truckload of Americans was caught sneaking into Mexico .
The economy is so bad Motel Six won't leave the light on anymore.
The economy is so bad Exxon-Mobil laid off 25 Congressmen

The economy is so bad that bands make LESS money gigging today than in 1989 IF they can find a paid gig.

I'm making the same money I made 20 yrs ago as a solo.

Where's my raise?

G1, Jeff!

The economy is so bad that bands make LESS money gigging today than in 1989 IF they can find a paid gig.

Around here we're making HALF the money we were making in clubs in '84.

Imho, the local music industries were tanking way before the general economy went south.

I blame DJ's, karaoke, lousy unrehearsed acts, the lack of effort to produce quality entertainment by nearly all the bands I've seen, & the alarming trend of bars just quitting offering music.

It's been a buyer's mkt for quite some time, now, & the musicians haven't really delivered the entertainment that they should, thus, the pay drops, since audiences are finding even the lousy singing on karaoke night to be more fun than the average band.

If you want top dollar, you hafta work harder to get it, but those dollars are still out there. Every town has one or two bars with relly good, top-notch acts coming through town & getting $1,000 or 2 for a single night.

You're absolutely right Philby. Back when we were making good money, all the bands in the area were top notch and put on professional shows. But around here, the clubowners started hiring young bands that didn't have all the equipment, set lists, and professionalism, but they could get them cheaper. Then the audiences started waning, the clubs sold to new managers who thought that $300 a night was good pay, so we couldn't get the pay back up where it belongs. So then the professional bands quit hauling as much equipment, took longer breaks, just giving them their $300 worth, and generally just got lazy. I miss the days of putting on professional shows and dream about getting a band together to do just that.

Rat, I don't know about you, but around here it's about to come back. We're putting together a professional show, I'll be wearing my usual wigs, crazy hats and stage clothes, doing an actual SHOW, maximum 15 seconds between songs...and since it's a 2 piece, we'll be making good money too.

Good for you, Pete!!! Maybe it will catch on. Most of the younger musicians around here have no idea how fulfilling it is to be in a really professional band. Show 'em what it's all about.

These are trends that have been in place far longer than the recent economic downturn. The more stringent dunken driving laws, advent of sports and karaoke bars, and diminishing interest in rock music have been the primary driving forces for the situation. As a result, there are less places to play and less fans willing to pay to see a band.

Around here there are three basic tiers of bands:

1) high quality pro bands that work the casinos, weddings, better clubs, etc and make about $1000 or more a night

2) average cover bands that make around $400 a night

3) original bands that work for the door ($50-200 a night)

Quite true, Jimmy. I neglected to mention those, but those are obstacles beyond our control.

The only control we have is whether or not we can deliver high quality entertainment, & good musicianship & singing.

If you build a high quality band, the ppl will come, I don't even care what the genre may be. Ppl who aren't necessarilly into country will go to see an act that is up-beat, that has good showmanship, who is funny & overall entertaining, just from hearing what other ppl say about that great country act. Same goes for other genres that don't promote uncomfortable feelings, like rap can. (Although I'll contend that an up-beat entertaining rap act will probably draw, too.)

Ppl still want to be entertained, & when their world is falling apart, they'll still pay for that lil escape. They certainly did during the depression years, & the prohibition years, in spite of the dangers of getting caught drinking. These tough times can be a veritable gold mine for the right act, provided you can come up with something new & different from what the other bands are offering. When you think of it that way, it's relatively easy to develop the idea for entertaining. The hard part, of course, is putting in the necessary work to deliver the fun seamlessly, looking like it's effortless, while looking like you're having the time of your life & delivering high quality music, too.

Around here it totally stagnated about 6 months ago-

Bars continue to screw bands, there's actually an ongoing craigslist rant in the musicians section about the growing list of bars that screw bands out of pay at the end of the night-

The reason we have so many terrible bands is that the good ones won't take the gigs at the reduced rates ($200 and less) to play at the local bars.

As much as I'd like to blame the crappy bands, you almost can't blame them for taking the gigs- They want to play out, are traditionally "weekend warriors" that in the old model, wouldn't have ever got out of the garage. The real issue is that the bars lowered the bar on pay, lowered the standards, and now even have the audacity to expect the band(s) to bring the patrons...

...And it's worked. The landscape has changed now, you can have the shittiest band in the world, where all the members play the kazoo through their noses... but if they can consistently bring in 100 followeres, they will get booked every time, and even get better pay.

The "average" gigging small bar-band anymore can't pull more than 30 or so fans typically, so any shitty band that can bring more than 30+ family+friends will be considered a "good band", even if they are poorly practiced, make critical errors, and put on a lousy show.

Welcome to paradise.

There's a relatively new bar in my area that has tried to break that mold, Kramer. They are really small, which limits their ability to pay top dollar, though.

They bring music to the ppl every Fri & Sat nite, though, & they are rather particular about who they hire. Sat nites they always have a really good band, & Fri's they get good solos or duos. They pay well, for the area, & I hope they can expand soon, cuz they could really be a power around here, if only they had a bigger place.

I've only ever been screwed out of pay once in my career, knock on wood. I luckily caught them before I even set up, though, & decided that it might be better to just mark that one off my list of possible venues.

I showed up & noticed that there were no signs outside, yet there was that scrolling sign inside that advertised me. I spoke to the bartender, & got very vague answers about my pay & such, so I asked her to call the owner. When I was told that the owner didn't even know I was to play there, I cut my losses & left, cuz it was the owner who called me & set it up. I laughed on my way out the door, & pointed to the scrolling sign, & asked the bartender if she really thought I wasn't booked to play that night. She had no answer.

The bar closed 3 weeks later, & I have boycotted every place that owner has ever since, & so have my friends, as far as I know.

I have no patience for a ripoff artist, & a very long memory.

Philby-

I've come up with and proposed changes (three different approaches) to several bars and clubs aound my way, and give them a solid plan to having better entertainment and getting more, and longer-staying, customers. All three approaches focus on one of three different elements, but all still focus on all three-

1) Higher pay for better bands, consistently.
2) Focusing on scouting and vetting better band.
3) Focusing on properly advertising and promoting their establishment as a "quality" entertainment venue.

The possibility of hiring someone to take on the "extra effort" portion is also an option to them.

In the end, the answer is always the same. The venue doesn't want to spend one dime more, nor are they willing take on any additional effort that requires lifting more than a finger for more than 5 seconds a day.

I'm a bit disappointed at the sheer laziness and audacity of these bar owners to place 100% of blame at the feet of the bands.

I don't necessarilly think that it's pure laziness, Kramer.

Bars are having some tough times, too, & owners are overworked & underpaid like the rest of us, in most cases.

Damned few businesses are willing to spend more in these economic times, due to the overall scares that we're all facing. The old ways of throwing money at a problem has been proven to fail time & again.

Even if they should suddenly start to get really good business at this point, that merely means that they have to work harder, themselves, cuz in so many cases they've had to lay off bartenders & such, & they would naturally fear that any change for the better will be short-lived, at best. Then they will be stuck paying extra help with no customers to justify the extra expense once again. They've already been through that recently.

The slow way is probably best.

Perhaps you should talk with some other bands in your area. If you get 2 or 3 really high quality bands that consistantly provide excellent entertainment, & you all are playing the same bars in rotation or something, that bar biz will be forced to slowly grow to fill the needs of its larger customer base.

I just don't see any quick fixes, due to the economic problems we're facing in this country.

But even if you are the only truly great band, you should be able to draw more ppl, & thus, demand higher pay.

Normally I'd be the first to agree with you, but this problem didn't just start with the economic downturn, it's been a slow progression since the late 90's, coincidentally parallel with the rise of devalued music (illegal downloading) -

I only stated that it got worse in the last 6 months because, well... it did. But that's true of everything and everyone -

THink of it like this - compare a guy who is barely living check to check with a guy who is living more than comfortably. Both, by their most basic observations, are sleeping in the bed they made.

Now add some economic downturn -
The guy who barely made it is now drowning in red ink and making dramatic cuts to his budget, such as deciding between groceries, gas, and healthcare; meanwhile- the comfortable living guy only has to make slight and non-dramatic adjustments to his general budget to cope.

The bars that are suffering the worst are the ones who need to change the most. While certainly they can't throw money at the problem as you pointed out, they also can't afford to sit on their hands and cluck like a dumb chicken either... but, that's exactly what they choose to do - One of the ideas I offered them was for them personally to step up and actively promote their venue as a "live band" venue (doing more than putting a band name/date/time on a stupid sign in front of the bar)..

Every one of them felt it was not their problem (responsibility), but the burden of the band to bring the crowd.. therefore, they choose "laziness".

A friend of mine in another forum has this to say:

"Why is it so hard to grasp the concept that club owners should invest in building their own clientele, the way they used to? Bands 'bringing the crowd' is a relatively new phenomenon and has contributed mightily to the increasing shittiness of the music scene.

The guy who owns a venue once told me that any club owner who relies on bands to provide him with a clientele is an idiot and won't be around long. From what I've seen, he's right."