General Music Chat

Glad you changed your profile pic! Cool!

It's weird because I've never seen that happen and I just donn't see the logical connection. I've heard of it happening twice somewhere else but not at any churches I've worshiped with.

It happens far more often than you have ANY idea. And adultery of course, is only ONE of myriads of possible sins that a human being is capable of.

The most dicouraging thing about attending church that ever occurred for me, was being involved in leadership positions within it for many years, at different times in my life.

It's not that these people do not believe what they publicly claim to believe, most do. But rather, how BUSINESS-LIKE most churches are. Numbers are important. Money is important. Poltitics are important. People and truth, get important somewhere down the line.

It isn't just Christian churches. ANY church, ANY religion, where inflexibly strict standards of conduct are demanded and expected, end up being the same. Everyone puts on a SHOW in church. Few people, are IDENTICAL in their public behavior and their private and personal behavior. In church, many fathers control their tempers toward their children, and act like the dutiful fathers, while at home, many are abusive, screaming, impatient, spend little time with their children, etc...

Adultery, abusiveness, pedophilia...

This stuff occurs with church people, just as it does anywhere else.

It's just hidden better.

Even someone's church "friends" are on their best behavior when another church goer is visiting.

I'm certainly not saying that these kinds of sins are epidemic in most churches. But they are there. Some of the people you go to church with (if it is of reasonable size) are having affairs, have molested kids, stolen something, cheated someone....

You will find better statistics for example, for divorce rates, in a church setting.... let' say "with church" 36% rate, "without church" 50% rate. But even those statistics are misleading. And apparently ANY religion brings about less divorce by 10% or more. But some people may very well be enduring abusive marriages that they SHOULD be leaving, but because of the public peer pressure of a church setting, they don't.

Church is the way many things are.

Good and evil, side by side, I believe slightly more good occurs than evil, so it is a "net" positive. You won't see me trying to get anyone to stop going to church, without a better alternative, because many things would be worse, without the church.

It's just not as "good" as you think.

And neither are churchgoers as "good" as you think.

Selfishness is everywhere Paul, everywhere.

Some people are professionals at hiding it from others.

Jesus knew that bargoers were not really any worse than churchgoers. Their sins were just different.

Still... Jesus always seemed to be angrier at the "church goers" though.

Maybe there was a reason for that?



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It's weird because it would seem that you think we choose not to play bars because we're "better than"
People are people no matter the venue: I dont play bars because I dont care for the atmosphere. I dont go to bars anymore. The last one I closed down was in Florida about oh, three maybe four years ago. I had gone to a Kali seminar, my friend and I picked a hotel close to the bar so we would not have to drive, and I left my S&W in the hotel.
I have never seen a fight break out, have someone throw up on my shoes, or have to wade through urine in the bathroom, at a Church or extended family social function, bike rally benefits for sick children or injured co workers. Even at the ones where they consume alcohol. Being a Lutheran of Germanic decent, of course I drink. Some of us smoke er ah tobacco We eat, we dance (well not me unless I'm playing my guitar) We have more fun than any bunch of strangers in a bar somewhere that I,ve experienced in my 49 years. (and I've been in > my share of bars)
It for me is about choice of atmosphere, not some holyer than thou crapola folks seem to want to label us with. The people who attend these types of social events arn't any better than the ones in the average bar crowd. But most of them do have a better reason for being there .
And intent makes all the difference in behavior. I have no tolerence for drunken fools. So it's best for all concered for me to stay away from them be it at bars or Bar B Ques
I'm not concered with Mrs Whatserface's affairs.
I got enough trouble managing my own.
You want to see and feel guinuine joy, a love of life and for your fellow men? Want your band to be the center of attention? For people of all races and gender to smile, shake your hand, and hug your neck?
Try it. You might like it.
I know I do. Pay aint that great, but apparently it aint that great anywhere.
If playing the bar scene is what you want to do. Be my guest. That is your right to choose.
I see no point in disrespecting those of us whom choose a different path because we would rather not deal with the issues involved.

If playing the bar scene is what you want to do. Be my guest. That is your right to choose.

I'll play anywhere. I'm not a separatist George. I can be evil anywhere I choose, why can't I then be "good" anywhere I choose too?

I see no point in disrespecting those of us whom choose a different path because we would rather not deal with the issues involved.

It wasn't my comment that seemed to suggest that people in bars are unworthy of playing for, was it?

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Paul and I dont play bars because we choose not to.
We choose not to because neither of us would want to deal with the issues involved in playing bars.
I have not, nor do I recall Paul ever saying or insinuating that the people in bars are not worth playing for.
Actually I have had this conversation with Paul before. And we generally agree, people are people no matter where they are standing.
Aint got nothing to do with good vs evil. It's about atmosphere We simply choose a different environment because thats where we are comfortable. You Craig, being a life long entertainer, should, of all people understand atmosphere.
I think perhaps you assumed too much on Paul's comment, and my agreement as well.
The venues that Paul and I prefer, WE are the entertainment. Not the Big Screen NFL, not the pool table. And the atmosphere is undeniably different. You could take the same 100 people that were at Joe's Bar on Friday night and put them at the Benefit for poor little Janey Rottencrotch on Monday and the atmosphere will be different.
(and it's quite likely they would have their children with them, a big part of NKF's target audence)

My apology Paul:
I generally dont assume to speak for others, but I felt I know your heart on this subject.

You nailed it George. Well done.

I generally like playing in bars. There's an open atmosphere there, much more so than in church, & I feel like I can bring a bit of fun into the equation. I NEVER felt very free to speak or even to think in a church, & feel stifled when I'm there.

In a bar, I can make a ribald statement & ppl laugh. I can make a political statement & ppl laugh. I can sing a song that makes ppl sit up & pay attention, or I can just stay in the background, depending upon my mood at the time.

In church, ppl take themselves & their surroundings way too seriously, yet the actual level of respect for you or I is not better or worse in any real way than it is an a bar.

I feel more free & more real in bars than I do in churches, but that's prolly because church ppl don't appreciate my world, my thoughts, or my moods...they definitely wouldn't like my humor!

I don't play in bars or church. I play coffee shops, outdoor events, etc. The difference in those events and bars are that the music is the entertainment- the focus and the coffee, cheesecake, social interaction, wifi are just background noise. In the bars the buzz, the hookup, the social interaction are the entertainment and unfortunately the live band is just background noise. I'm not saying that that is the case %100 of the time. That's just been my experience.

Actually I have had this conversation with Paul before.

Actually, I HAVE TOO!

And for him, IT IS because of religious conviction that he doesn't play in bars. He has other reasons too, of course, like when he mentioned he did not like the smoke when he went to see that other one-man-band dude play, but I am quite convinced from my conversations with him about this, that the RELIGIOUS PART "IS" the biggest factor for him.

I may have made an "assumption" about your own position, but I suspect that religion may have a little (just a little) to do with your separation stance as well? Would you perform with your band in a bar that you KNEW to be relaxed, and where people were not drinking excessively?

I don't mean any offense by the way. You have seen me get in the middle of the atheists and agnostics for dissing Christianity as well, telling them that much, if not most, of the good in the world, in our modern era, is due to Christianity... Christians following Jesus' message (or at least trying to, as they understand it)

I don't believe Christianity is as bad, as anti-religonists would have it.

But I also don't believe Christianity is as good, as religionists would have it.

I would like to see BOTH views balanced out and meet somewhere in the middle, where REALITY is.

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"No one way does it for everyone".

Yeah I hate sports too. JETS lost again. Had a great week last week[BYE] that means they didnt have to play.
I may switch sports,,, Baseball ,,,, NY YANKEES.
When is the world series?

Craig , You gotta put back your other pic, you smoking under a NO SMOKING sign OR you gotta put up a copy for public down load from one of you 2 gazillion million my face space whatever sites that no one knows wich one we can leave a message on that you mite even get to contact somebody unimportant like me.
Oh by the way, Rehearsal at Chippys house, 13 days.

BY the way I am not canadien.

Craig , You gotta put back your other pic, you smoking under a NO SMOKING sign

Ok, it's back. LOL

But you got to take it easy on the Canadiens. LOL

Especially since this forum is based there.

Oh by the way, Rehearsal at Chippys house, 13 days.

I can't save America or Christianity that soon!

Hell, it took about 10 times that, just to get Philly to be nice to me.



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MINOR PROBLEMS.