General Music Chat

.

Did anyone bother reading ALL of my response?

If so, I'd be interested to know what you thought about it?



I only want to hear from those who read it all though, please.

.

Yes, I did indeed read your thread. And what I gleaned from your post is that humans need spirtuality. No matter what anyone believes, we all have that one common thread. We have that thread because it is ingrown, even genetic. What makes us human is our spiritual needs, even those who think that they have no spiritual need, it's there. That is God right there...we're made in his image and we reflect that image in our need to connect and hope for what is the truth.

Craig, I read it all.

Sure, plants respond to kindness, but you cannot extrapolate from that, that everything, or that everyone will.

Tell it to that Grizzly guy that loved the bears right up until they killed him.

The universe isn't all love & niceness, no matter how hard we try to love it first. There are bears out there that will eat you. You can love reptiles all you want, but watch out for that black adder! You can love insects, but you will still get yellow fever from the wrong mousquito bite.

There is much out there that is different from us, that we will never understand or be able to make nice with. That doesn't necessarilly make those things "evil." They simply "are," & we must avoid them if we can or suffer the consequences.

Cancer kills. Bacteria kills. Many things mutilate & cause harm, & no matter how one tries to be all sweetness & light about it, it sucks in a big way, both for the victims & their loved ones who suffer vicariously as they watch inevitable events come to pass.

I contend that there are certain things that happen that no good can arise from, that ppl simply cannot overcome. It's obvious in plenty of cases, where, no matter how much help a person gets, things never improve, & those who are trying to help, & those that love the victim, end up merely suffering along with him. The victim merely suffers. It's a terrible thing, yet it happens all the time.

We all die alone, no matter how many ppl we have around us. That passage is for each of us, alone. We all live alone, as well. We cannot "become one" with anything in this existence, in either a physical OR a metaphysical way. We will always perceive things in our own distinct fashion.

God is not "love." He is all, if He is anything. The good, the bad, & the ugly.

I read an article the other day that suggests that racism is inherent in us all, that babies display racist tendencies, whether or not they are exposed to racism from their parents. It is quite possible that racism is not an "evil thing," but simply a way of keeping the family unit or the tribal unit tighter, to help it to withstand outside influence.

Yet we are taught to perceive racism as a bad thing. How can it be "bad" if we are born with those traits? God, in his wisdom, created us with that trait within us, if these studies are any indicator.

Perhaps our single-minded determination to make us all equal in our own eyes is a mistake. Perhaps that is not "God's will" at all.

I'm not defending racism, here, but looking at things as I see, hear, & read them, & I wonder about it all. (Perhaps it's true that a LITTLE knowledge is a dangerous thing!)

Still, I doubt that you have any real answers for me. They will come or not as God wills it.

As I said, we each of us travels his road alone.

It ain't all bleak, either. But I'll never become all Polly Anna about much of anything that I ever see, cuz the universe simply isn't built the way you'd like to see it.

There is much to enjoy, & as long as you are able, you'd best make the best of it. To do otherwise is to waste the good times that you have available, & that, is a terrible sin, indeed.

I like bog boobies

An interesting concept: Cranberries grow in bogs, the berries float on top of the water. If Ocean Spray hired a bunch of topless women to gather up the cranberries you could have bog boobies. THAT would be a very good word indeed!

Craig, I read it all.

Yay! Thank you Phil!

Sure, plants respond to kindness, but you cannot extrapolate from that, that everything, or that everyone will.

We have free will. So no, not everyONE will respond, but that does not mean that everyTHING would not respond.

Tell it to that Grizzly guy that loved the bears right up until they killed him.

The universe isn't all love & niceness, no matter how hard we try to love it first.

Isn't it possible we aren't loving it ENOUGH? Maybe our love is not pure enough yet. If we are only beginning to learn that we should LOVE all things, then perhaps we need time to learn it better, to be better conduits for God's love to come through us. Love requires practice, to perfect. And maybe this is why the Bible says that the Lion will lay down with the Lamb? And why it also says that the CREATION itself, LONGS for the revealing of the sons of God to be revealed. Because creation is waiting to BE LOVED. It has been shown that animals learn from other animals and they even learn from watching us! There are animals which have been seen to go outside their normal habits, because they LEARNED a different behavior from an outside source.

We have shown the ability to domesticate animals. Maybe creation itself will begin to reflect the love it is shown, when it is practiced by all mankind? Maybe THIS is what the universe longs for?

I read an article the other day that suggests that racism is inherent in us all, that babies display racist tendencies, whether or not they are exposed to racism from their parents. It is quite possible that racism is not an "evil thing," but simply a way of keeping the family unit or the tribal unit tighter, to help it to withstand outside influence.

I have actually pondered this before, because I used to have ALOT of cats, years ago, because my ex-wife was a cat lover. What I noticed was that the cats of similar colors played more together than the others. The two black cats hung out more, and the two orange cats hung out more, than any of the others.

What I came to conclude through watching them, was that this was not RACISM, but... SAME-ISM. It was not that the cats were actually RACIST as we think of it. They were merely drawn more to other cats that RESEMBLED themselves.

I thought about this, and realized that people do the same thing. Even people of the SAME RACE do this. If you look at couples, particularly strong ones, like those who end up marrying and staying together for many years... they have similar features on their faces. This does not ALWAYS hold true of course. But check it out sometime. Someone with a longer nose, is often attracted to someone else with a similar feature. Couples often look similar, and I believe it is because we are attracted to others, who resemble US.

When they look at someone who looks like them, it gives them a feeling of FAMILIARITY which sets them at ease, and makes them feel comfortable.

People do it.

Animals do it.

THAT PART is the natural part.

And that is NOT a sin.

But like other sins, I have discovered that MANY sins do not really start as "sins" per-se, but GRADUATE into them. This is important to me, because if God created everything, then in a sense, He created SIN itself, otherwise WHERE DOES IT COME FROM?

Where do we learn it?

"Where did the FIRST sinner learn it from?"

That's the kind of question I ask, regarding God and original sin.

But as in the study you read. This is not "RACISM" as we understand it. That is a HUMAN designation for what they are witnessing. A baby being drawn more to another baby that RESEMBLES it, is hardly racist, with the full MEANING we typically understand it to be.

Racism is defined as a belief in INHERENT SUPERIORITY of one race over another. Or else DISCRIMINATION based on race. The babies were not DISCRIMINATING against one another, they were merely drawn to others who RESEMBLED them. Why? Because, especially for children, being weaker than adults, they look for safety above all else. Children need to know they are safe. Comfort, is akin to safety. If I feel comfortable, I also feel safe. The babies are likely seeking COMFORT from being around others who RESEMBLE them.

.

Everything is temporary.
Chaos is the natural state of the universe.

Jimmy,

From one agnostic to another,

I don't believe in absolute time, so any thing temporal on a universal scale does not exist.

It may be that protons don't decay.

Randomness prevails on the quantum scale, but statistically , events are predictable, which doesn't really seem so chaotic.

Just another set of possibilities to ponder.

(damn! another Guinness would go down good about now!)

later,
Howlin'

I was talking to one of my students about this. He is Asian. The majority of my students are Asian. Most of his school associates are Asians. There are the Jock-Asians, The FOB ( fresh off boat ) Asians, The cheerleader Asians, the Nerd Asians. So "seperate but equal" is everywhere.

Blacks also divide themselves.

I was talking to one of my students about this. He is Asian. The majority of my students are Asian. Most of his school associates are Asians. There are the Jock-Asians, The FOB ( fresh off boat ) Asians, The cheerleader Asians, the Nerd Asians. So "seperate but equal" is everywhere.

Blacks also divide themselves.

Is "divide themselves" the right term though? Maybe sometimes, but I believe that very often, people are GRAVITATING TOWARD one another, than purposefully SEPARATING themselves FROM one another.

People have a tendency to be with OTHERS WHO ARE LIKE THEMSELVES. Whether nerds or jocks, or colors, or weightlifters, or brainiacs, etc...

But when people grow up with a variety of "others" then they find themselves more comfortable or familiar with OTHER TYPES or OTHER RACES, and therefore are less fearful, or feel they have less in common.

And we should therefore be TRYING to have shared experiences with others. And understand others. Different colors. Different religions. Whatever. Familiarity does not breed "contempt"... "Familiarity breeds understanding!"

Why did the various races develop (*the Bible won't answer this!)

It is because of evolutionary principles.

Lighter skin developed as we moved away from the equator (the hotter regions) because darker skin PROTECTS from the Sun's rays, but when you have darker skin, and live in NORTHERN climates, for example, where the sun is not as intense and does not stay out as long, then there is a danger of developing Rickets and other diseases, due to Vitamin D deficiency, which we were actually discussing on another thread! This is nature's way of protecting us. Closer to the Equator... darker skin... as you move away... lighter skin (Think of South America... darker skin but not as dark as Africa) and even further away from the Equator... very light skin. Go look at Icelandic people.

Racism is patently STUPID!

Any of us could have been born to any family.

White is an adaptation, not the original skin color, which was darker, since ALL CIVILIZATION emerged from Africa.

We are a HUMAN RACE, not any OTHER race.

Do you know that many anthropologists want to remove the term RACE from the vernacular altogether? Because separating into "races" based on color, makes little sense to them, particularly in a modern era. There are ONLY 3 or 4 race-types Caucasian, Mongloid, etc... that are recognized. And even these are questionable. Because we are 99.7 (something like that) percent, IDENTICAL genetically, as HUMANS with one another.

There are OTHER features which would make better "separations" than race does. WE ARE JUST TOO ALIKE.

It is a HUMAN RACE... A HUMAN FAMILY!

.

Good word ,,,,YANKEES WIN.

We have free will.
.

Not so fast.

There's quite a bit of debate about that. And it's looking more and more like "Free Will" doesn't actually exist.

As Scott Adams is fond of saying, we're really just Moist Robots. We respond, each of us individually, based on our own internal programming - how our brains are wired.

Science is compiling more and more evidence that debunks the idea of Free Will; it looks more and more like our actions are nothing more than the result of the way our brains are wired up.

This is going to pose a real dilemma for us as a society later on. I foresee a day far in the future when we come to that realization that we're just the sum of our programming parts; what does society do when they can prove, for instance, that a pedophiles urge to fondle small children is hard-wired into their brain, and it's nothing that can be overcome with "willpower"? Will we have the scientific ability to alter brains and thus alter behavior at that point? Or will we have to make a judgment call and ship those folks off to Mars?

It's an interesting future to consider.

Not so fast.

There's quite a bit of debate about that.
No yankees win.

Science is compiling more and more evidence that debunks the idea of Free Will; it looks more and more like our actions are nothing more than the result of the way our brains are wired up.

This doesn't debunk the concept of "Free Will"

But science is right, to the degree that MUCH if not MOST of our... traits, behavior, etc... IS GENETIC. We "choose" CONSCIOUSLY far less than we would like to believe. This is what makes us so predictable, and what makes psychology so powerful. Psychological principles work so well, because we RESPOND instinctively to them. But these can be overcome through free-will generally. An example might be advertising that is so effective for a while, but then we "learn" to tune them out, and they become less successful and other tactics have to be developed or employed.

This is going to pose a real dilemma for us as a society later on. I foresee a day far in the future when we come to that realization that we're just the sum of our programming parts;

Programmed by "nature" or "evolution" I assume... coming from an atheistic position? But an interesting choice of words. Nature can "program" us, but not a powerful and creative "being".

what does society do when they can prove, for instance, that a pedophiles urge to fondle small children is hard-wired into their brain, and it's nothing that can be overcome with "willpower"? Will we have the scientific ability to alter brains and thus alter behavior at that point? Or will we have to make a judgment call and ship those folks off to Mars?

It's an interesting future to consider.

This has already been "proven" to some degree. People are already born with certain wiring-problems (for lack of a better term) such as Prosopagnosia, which is a "face disorder" where the person CANNOT recognize faces, whether of friends or family. A person having this disorder for example, would not be able to recognize their mother's face when they SAW it, or even their own face for that matter, if they were looking at a photo of themselves. They have the ability to recognize people from OTHER stimuli, such as voices, or other traits, but not FACES. This usually follows a severe brain injury, but recently it has been found there ARE hereditary forms of this disorder.

This is an example where the BRAIN is not putting the pieces together properly. The person KNOWS they are seeing a "face" but the part of the brain, that then ASSOCIATES that face, relationally, like... "That face belongs to my mother" or "that face belongs to the President of the United States" is NON-EXISTENT.

The fact that it occurs often after a BRAIN INJURY would negate someone's desire to bellieve that it is a "spiritual" problem.

When things like this are shown to be factual, and they have been, then it may very well be, that OTHER things we would consider "wrong" or "antisocial" or a "psychopathy" may very well be connected more to BRAIN FUNCTION than to "choice" or "learned behavior" or a "sin nature".

I don't think this poses a "dilemna" to society, as much as it poses a HOPE to society, that some things may one day be corrected through surgery, or gene therapy or whatever treatment may be learned to be applied.

That would be a WONDERFUL thing... not a dilemna!

.

I like bog boobies

An interesting concept: Cranberries grow in bogs, the berries float on top of the water. If Ocean Spray hired a bunch of topless women to gather up the cranberries you could have bog boobies. THAT would be a very good word indeed!

oooops.... BIG BOOBIES.... aaauuugghh....what the hey... I'll take bog boobies if they're available..

Big boobies beats bib boogies every time. (Though for some mysterious reason, one can lead to the other, if a guy isn't careful about his boob fetish!)

It's hell being lysdexic!

Good words: happy, glad, contented, pleased, satisfied, peachy, nice, fine, okay, omg that felt sooooooooooo good!

(Sorry...had to go there)

I used to tell ppl that my name is Alice Peterson, but no one believed me. I have no idea why I would say that, & I dunno why they wouldn't believe me. That just proves to me that the universe is fulla mystery!

I cleaned a woman's chimney yesterday & only charged her $20, & I didn't even get laid...see? It ain't all good! I SHOULDA gotten laid for that! I WANTED to get laid. You'd think someone would know that when you climb up on their slippery damned metal roof & brush out their chimney & fix their chimney cap & stuff & then undercharge them that it's only PROPER to show gratification by gratifying the guy what did it...but NNNNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnoooo!

The universe has no sense of justice!

And why don't fortune cookies give ya fortunes any more? The last one I got said "The other line always moves faster," & then tried to teach me how to speak Chinese. Why would I want to learn Chinese when I can hardly handle Enkritch?

I'm just glad that someone had the foresight to invent Sharpies! Now I can see my cheat sheets! YAY!!!!

And remember that there is no free will if you're on anti-depressants!

I saw that stupid movie "Free Willy" the other day on tv. It was sponsored by Viagra. Hmmmmm...........

mark all posts as read.

Science is compiling more and more evidence that debunks the idea of Free Will; it looks more and more like our actions are nothing more than the result of the way our brains are wired up.

This doesn't debunk the concept of "Free Will"

Sure it does. Free Will posits that you have a choice. But the science is saying you don't have a choice - your brain is programmed and you are simply responding to its programmed commands.

But science is right, to the degree that MUCH if not MOST of our... traits, behavior, etc... IS GENETIC. We "choose" CONSCIOUSLY far less than we would like to believe.

The science is saying you don't actually choose at all.

Programmed by "nature" or "evolution" I assume... coming from an atheistic position?

I am coming from the position of a computer programmer and software designer. I look the brain like a computer program. Where a computer program breaks down to essentially a sequence of zeros and ones that are interpreted by a cpu process, your brain is a sequence of neurons that are interpreted by the electrical and chemical processes in your brain.

I can write a program that responds to a given set of inputs, and based on those input variables, produces some kind of output. Your brain works the same way.

What performs the "programming" then, you ask? I think that's the big question, because if we can understand how our brains get programmed then it might be possible to re-program them, either directly through surgery/drugs or indirectly through the input senses (psychotherapy?)

Obviously, at least initially, our brains are formed based purely on DNA. What what in our parents genetic code is inside us, in some kind of combination. That's our base. But after we leave the womb, we're exposed to our world, and our five senses begin accepting input. Those five senses take that input and form neurons, and those neurons affect our behavior.

And abused child often turns into an abuser as an adult, for example.

When things like this are shown to be factual, and they have been, then it may very well be, that OTHER things we would consider "wrong" or "antisocial" or a "psychopathy" may very well be connected more to BRAIN FUNCTION than to "choice" or "learned behavior" or a "sin nature".

I think what we're going to come to realize someday is that every behavior of a human being is the result of brain function.

I don't think this poses a "dilemna" to society, as much as it poses a HOPE to society, that some things may one day be corrected through surgery, or gene therapy or whatever treatment may be learned to be applied.

That would be a WONDERFUL thing... not a dilemna!

.

It poses a dilemma for religious people who believe in free will. Because if you come to accept that your behavior as a human being is 100% the result of your brain functions, then the next logical step is to realize there is no free will, and then next logical step is to realize that when your brain dies - who you are as a person dies with you. In other words, no soul, no heaven, no hell... no afterlife. And my guess is that's going to scare a good many people.