General Music Chat

After reading all this, the only conclusion I can come to is that ,ALL of you are some really Intelligent people. Not one of these posts DOESN'T HAVE substantial thought behind them.
I have been trying to avoid all political comment on this site. but I have to say you guys are real thinkers , and might be the kind of hope that saves our great country.

I have seen the rumors many "revolutionary" energy devices such as Tesla's. I simply dont believe them.
And here is why.
Man will always find a place to "put the meter". And nothing that powerfull would go unadulterated by the profit mongers of the earth.

Actually, that's the perfect reason TO believe it Sans. Tesla was not a "meter" person. As revolutionary as his many inventions were (AI-his invention of the radio and the use of the airways), he was constantly suppressed by the rich men he associated with and worked for. By all rights he should have been the richest man in the world while he was alive, but instead he died a poor man due to the greedy nature and sabotaging of J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, Ford, and Marconi (who tried to steal his claim to fame as the inventor of the radio) and hence the government as well..

Tesla believed the airwaves should be free for all man to use. But as we're seeing things today, our cell-phone companies, satellite tv companies and wireless internet providers don't quite agree. How ironic is it that those services wouldn't exist if it weren't for his inventions and that modern companies have found a way to put a meter on it.

Within a couple of hours after Tesla died, the FBI seized all of his files and patents and had many of them sealed never to see the light of day by the public. Could it possibly be that they were sealed until a way to put a meter on the ether was found then exploited?

I agree with you, Shredd. I've often wondered why those files were snatched up so quickly, & where they've gone, & what's been done with them.

sans - your assessment of man's character is spot on, for most ppl. It explains everything for all for our collective problems. Still, I believe that, if ever we should be so lucky as to get some competant & honest leadership, things might change for the better, & the masses may start to emulate those leaders' good qualities. As long as our current love of stupidity, prejudice, & power over others persists, however, the problems will continue as well.

The mid-east has been on a rougher path in this area than many others, perhaps, by those standards, but it has been changing in its own ways by necessity.

Sooner or later, a successful, enlightened society must admit that there are many paths to choose in life, & that many of them are perfectly viable, even in the spiritual realm as they apply to this physical existence. Thus, it is better to "live & let live," when it comes to the acceptance of the beliefs of others. (When this trend reverses, the society invariably collapses into fascism, & the society must be ended, either from within or without.) The US made some good steps in this direction when they wrote the constitution, allowing freedom of religion. They were not the first to adopt this philosophy. It was the way many many societies throughout history have been, & they would be most surprized that anyone would need to write this idea down & make it into law.

The moslem countries had been separating into many different sects, as any succussful religion does. This happens because of the very spread of that religion, which absorbs local societal attitudes & the basic beliefs inherent in the local population after however long a time of prior religious dogmas, rites, etc., as the new religion grows. So the local chapter of any big religion will alter, however slight or vast, from the original intent & interpretations of said religion.

Dddonnie says that every time you cross water, the people are different.

That's a funny way of putting it.

Anyway, the natural muddying of the religion calls for a certain acceptance from those who haven't wavered from the original. We sometimes hear one group of christians, when speaking of another group, saying, "Well, at least they're worshipping Christ, even if its in their own way."

The same was happening in Islam, until they found their common enemy. Laws were beginning to loosen in the area. Minds were beginning to be more open. It was a natural process toward a more open society, one that we could more easily accept & be accepted in.

Then the progress suddenly stopped. Rules became more strict, again. What occured to cause this? For some reason, they haven't splintered as far as the christians have, even as they've grown over the last few decades. It's still rather easy to band them together for a common cause, & while this is happening, they have become more unified in every other area of their lives. Their religion is what binds them. "It's time to return to the roots, & make sure everyone is on the same page, because we have a common enemy," would seem to be their current state of mind. It could be that they have not had enough time to evolve as a religion. They've only been around for 1400 years, after all...

Or perhaps the enemy is considered to be so dangerous, that it seems a more dire situation that requires them to stand as one against the superpower?

I can almost pinpoint the moment when this natural trend began to reverse its progressive momentum...it was 1946....

By all rights he should have been the richest man in the world while he was alive, but instead he died a poor man due to the greedy nature and sabotaging of J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, Ford, and Marconi

You left out Edison, who should have been first on that list.


But in fairness to the greedy lot, Tesla was also a victim of himself. He had mental illness which contributed to his lack of knowledge or caring, for how to use his money, and he just epected to be financed to continue his studies for the science of it alone. But of course it doesn't work that way. For the wealthy to spend a fortune backing something, the investor needs a reasonable epectation of financial reward.

And I think you are mistaken about any government conspiracy to take his papers to prevent the spread of free energy, or anything similar. It was more likely due to national security concerns. Shortly before his death, Tesla was working on a "death ray" that he had pitched to the U.S. Military, but they showed little interest at the time.

After his death, the government was most likely concerned that his discoveries and research would fall into foreign hands, since, after all, Tesla, though a naturalized citizen of America, was of foreign decent, with family in what is now, modern day Croatia.

The government would not have had to wait until his death, to steal his papers or perform some kind of sabotage. The fear was that his work would end up in foreign hands, and potentially be used against us.

But I have been fascinated by Tesla, quite literally, since I was a child. To me, he was, for inventors, what Newton or Einstein were to physicists. He was brighter and more ground-breaking than Edison or any of his contemporaries. He was a genius, and far and away, ahead of his time.

He's one of my favorite people in history.

.

I was waiting for someone to bring up Edison.. And parts of your post is what gives validity of what Sans was getting at.

My view of Edison isn't so great. Tesla was a genius, and a hard working man, and very honest. And this was his first encounter with the U.S.

"Tesla claims he was offered US$50,000 (US $1.1 million in 2007, adjusted for inflation) if he redesigned Edison's inefficient motor and generators, making an improvement in both service and economy. Tesla said he worked night and day on the project and gave the Edison Company several profitable new patents in the process. In 1885 when Tesla inquired about the payment for his work, Edison replied, "Tesla, you don't understand our American humor," thus breaking his word. Earning a mere US $18 per week, Tesla would have had to work for 53 years to earn the amount he was promised. The offer was equal to the initial capital of the company. Tesla then immediately resigned when he was refused a raise to US $25 per week.

Tesla, in need of work, eventually found himself digging ditches for a short period of time for the Edison company. He saw the manual labor as such a terrible job, but Tesla used this time to focus on his AC polyphase system."

While my history books were teaching me how great these people were when I was a kid. I can see now how horrible they were as people.

The only person according to what I know of Tesla's history who gave him an honest chance was George Westinghouse. And that's where I'm guessing you're getting at him being his own enemy as well. And you would be correct in the case of his dealings with Westinghouse. But Westinghouse did have a choice to be honest and handle things differently with Tesla. From what I remember, Westinghouse was facing bankruptcy unless Tesla forgave him a major debt. And Tesla dropped the debt. But my memory is a little hazy on that subject.


I honestly have no clue why the FBI seized Teslas belongings. But I do find it odd that his death ray IS used in modern day warfare by the US, just in a different way (or so they tell us).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFRoMUorNEc

I don't know man.. Looks like a modified modern version of what would have been initially invented long ago as Tesla's Death ray to me.

Death ray...free energy...free transportatiom...the list goes on.

I agree with you Ted.

Edison had a stable of very talented inventors. It's hard to determine whether he was a better inventor (much of "his" work, was his employees ideas and projects) or whether he was simply a better businessman. He was shrewd where that was concerned. I don't fault him for being a good businessman, but like you, I am familiar with the stories of his going back on his agreements, and this is not good business. It is poor character.

Tesla could care less about the wealth. He was a true scientist. He was brilliant and inquisitive and almost A.D.D. like in his work, jumping from one thing to the next at blazing speed, which is indicative of his brilliant mind, which was literally flooded with ideas and theories constantly.

But going back to Edison type people, fortunately, America is also full of talented and gifted people who, like Tesla, were more interested in improving mankind's condition, than merely profiting from it.

Benjamin Franklin is a prime example of this ethic. He invented a stove which became a standard throughout America, the "Franklin Stove" which was superior and more efficient, etc... and his contemporaries told him he should patent it, but he refused, believing he had no right to profit from something so essential, when it could improve the lives of so many by simply giving it to the world. He did this not once, but several times, and could have made additional fortunes on these inventions of his. But his ethics were just so superior, and he is a true American treasure. When Kramer or someone else, trashed our founding fathers' characters in another post, Franklin was just one of the examples I had intended to use, to show him that many, if not most, of our founding fathers were of very high character and integrity.

Not just America, but the world, is incredibly fortunate that such men were the founders of this country. The world would have had an entirely different, and certainly not better, history, without men like these, setting the foundational stones, not just for this country, but as an example to the rest of the world.

George Washington, for example, who commanded the revolutionary army, after winning the war, could easily have become King of the new country, but following the example of Cincinnatus, whose conduct Washington greatly admired, he presented himself before Congress and resigned his commission. He would have stayed in private life for good, but after time passed, and the first election was held, every single elector, put a ballot in for George Washington.

To this day, he is the only president to ever have a unanimous vote of all electors.

And even then, he limited himself to two terms, a precaution for power not being held too long, in one man's hands. That example was followed by every president since, until FDR.

We are fortunate, and the world is fortunate, that men like these formed this nation, and gave it a foundation and examples of moral and selfless conduct, that have helped carry it now for more than 2 centuries.

God willing, such character will be remembered and even recaptured, so that this nation, freedom's light for the world, will not fail, but endure, and continue leading the world toward freedom and tolerance.

.

I agree with you Ted.

Benjamin Franklin is a prime example of this ethic. He invented a stove which became a standard throughout America, the "Franklin Stove" which was superior and more efficient, etc...

.

And I agree with much of what you said, Craig,
Except for the presumed superiority of the iron stove over other technologies for the purpose of space heating with wood fuel.

The use of high mass (masonry) devices used by many European countries at that time are slowly being recognised as a cleaner, safer, and vastly more efficient heating method over the Franklin stove.
(I'm building one into our new house)

The true genius of that period when it comes to heat transfer was not Ben Franklin, but rather , another American named Ben Thompson!

Thompson, however, stayed loyal to the King of England and, subsequently, moved to Europe, wher he perfected the efficiency of fireplaces, and deduced the nature of insulation. He was thereafter known as Lord Rumford and his contribution to science is well documented.
later,
Howlin'

My primary point was how unselfish it was of Franklin to not seek profit on his invention, but...

Wow!

The diversity of knowledge and information here, never ceases to amaze me!

Thanks for that info John!

And I agree with much of what you said, Craig,
Except for the presumed superiority of the iron stove over other technologies for the purpose of space heating with wood fuel.

The use of high mass (masonry) devices used by many European countries at that time are slowly being recognised as a cleaner, safer, and vastly more efficient heating method over the Franklin stove.
(I'm building one into our new house)

The true genius of that period when it comes to heat transfer was not Ben Franklin, but rather , another American named Ben Thompson!

Thompson, however, stayed loyal to the King of England and, subsequently, moved to Europe, wher he perfected the efficiency of fireplaces, and deduced the nature of insulation. He was thereafter known as Lord Rumford and his contribution to science is well documented.
later,
Howlin'

Craig, once again you hit the nail right on the head. It doesn't surprise me that we see eye to eye a lot. Obama sold the country that he recognized Corporate and political abuses and that he was going to change it all.

I think Obama still has people sold that he can make a lot of changes, and that's why he won this award. I haven't exactly heard any reasons why he won it exactly, but whatever, the Nobel Peace prize don't mean a whole lot to me anyway.

Good men dont necessarily agree.