General Music Chat

No Peter did not start the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church is not even in the bible.

The Catholic church was started by the Roman empire.

Matthew 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The original language calls Peter pebble and the bedrock truth that the church is founded on is found a few verses earlier.

matt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Church is founded on the fact that Christ is the son of the living God.

Peter's traditions and teachings led to pauls letters which founded the catholic church. Rome ADOPTED the catholic church later when the emporor had a vision from god before a great battle.

The translation for Peter, the ROCK has never derived from any word meaning PEBBLE, that must be your CHURCHES interpretation. Cause the Catholics, the ones who follow the direct teachings of PETER, throught the authority given him by CHRIST. But, regardless, your opinion or theirs, it is all CHURCH DOGMA, the only mention of Christs church was when he gave that authority to Peter. If you practice anything other than the ritual designed by Peter, the rock upon which Christ's church was built, then you have deviated and changed the scripture to suit your own beliefs. You interpret the bible the way your preacher taught you to. that is church dogma

I gotta say, these threads are pretty funny...
No really, I'm getting some great sermon material...

I have a feeling people will be talking of the great bandmix war of 09 for some time. I just hope and pray no one gets hurt. Funny how many views this one thread has already gotten.



And its another day in Paradise !!!

Hmmmmmm
So you are going to place a Sermon upon people based upon what you have read on this forum/thread?

If this were the old world where belief were God itself I could bring you an Army because I would believe.

What I worry about is that there are SO MANY quotes that lead nowhere. Where are the sources for such documentation and belief? I don't see many people posting these and from a person who has been on some archaelogical expeditions find it odd that there are no sources for this conversation!

It's easy to cut and paste, easier still to quote. Even easier to destroy.
Building is much harder indeed.

Sadly I have to confess that what I have read here does not lead to any pillars that anyone with any sense would stand under.

Thank you.

I gotta say, these threads are pretty funny...
No really, I'm getting some great sermon material...

If the bible had to list everything that wasn't allowed how big would the bible be?

If the Bible had to list everything that WAS allowed how big would the Bible be?

It works both ways Paul, that is why I disagree with an ABSOLUTE prohibition, based merely on the LACK of a RECORD of something happening, that may very well HAVE happened, rather than having a group of elders deciding on things on a case by case basis.

Your argument works BOTH ways.

One small book, cannot list all the SINS or all the GLORIES possible in God's creation and among God's people.

It's just musical instruments Paul.

A voice is little more than a musical instrument itself.

Some guy got a bug up his holier than thou butt, many many decades ago, and convinced alot of other people to divide denominations with him over it.

In Jesus day, he would have been a PHARISEE Paul. Straining the gnat, while swalloing the camel whole.

I think it is a terribly petty thing to divide churches over.

It is a symptom to me, of what is WRONG with modern Christianity.

But your culture, and your position, demand that you obey this new prohibition and division, so you won't be swayed. I get that.

Can we drop it now?

I tried my best, and I failed.

It doesn't make you a bad person, and it doesn't make me a satanic influence. God has bigger things on His mind than our discussion.

My wife is just as pissed at me, as some of you are.

She happens to agree with me, but she sees it as me ramming religion down someone's throat, and better left alone.

It's my heart's belief, that other people are like me. Not enslaved to tradition, and open to God's voice, even when it means admitting previous positions were wrong.

I have had to do this many times in life.

It's how I grow.

It's how I find the best possible position.

I used to be a fan of Rush Limbaugh in my 20's. I have grown up. I used to believe that all environmentalists were whackos. I have grown past that as well. I used to believe that God actually invented a rainbow only after killing 99% of the world's population. I realized later how ridiculous that idea was.

I have pointed out the clear evidence of this.

And I am trashed because everyone realizes how convincing just the "rainbow argument" alone is. But, rather than having the effect intended... LIBERATING people from a fallacious belief, instead I am seen as crushing people's faith, as if fallacious beliefs should be a sacred cow, and everyone feels sorry for this.

"They were happy with their primitive beliefs... so what if they think the world is flat? They're happy believing that. Leave them alone."

I get it.

But is clinging to a flat Earth belief system truly enriching? My heart is to help liberate the mistaken parts of Christianity so it can be a viable and powerful force for good again, rather than the increasingly ridiculed and faltering religion it is becoming.

Sadly, I have not liberated anyone's heart here however.

I still believe there are those, who are more in love with God and truth, than the traditions of men, but I see now, they will be few and far between, so the best thing is for me to avoid these discussions here.

We all understand each other.

We won't change each other's heart, or improve each other's condition.

Because I have failed. It's obvious I wasted my efforts, and I admit, that I made a big mistake.

I apologize for all the ruffled feathers.

.

Say somebody decides to add burning a small animal to the Lord's supper. would that be ok with you? We know not to do that or anything else because God didn't ask for it.

Once again we added a don't add?

Nope doesn't make sense.

It is a poor analogy.

The Bible "IS" clear, that Jesus was to be the final sacrifice.

It does not say anything similar about MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS.



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Second, you never heard me say "we" are right and all of Christianity is wrong. That is just another common slander.

It is a fact, not slander.

You would not need to split a denomination, and form a new denomination, if ALL OTHERS were not wrong. If any other church were RIGHT, you could have joined them, and not split the Body of Christ, YET AGAIN with a new denomination.

Surely you can't argue that point?

If another denomination, ANY denomination was practicing religion, the way the founders of the Church of Christ thought was appropriate, they could have simply joined those churches. And would not have felt the NEED, to create a NEW denomination.

Which "IS" precisely what they did.

.


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The Catholic Church is not even in the bible.

The Catholic church was started by the Roman empire.

You were right about Peter meaning "pebble" and that Christ is the real Rock that the church is founded upon. But not about the Catholic Church. It is directly linked to the earliest disciples. And the term "Catholic" simply means "Universal"

They may be corrupt as Hell, but they ARE the longest game running. Everything else split from them.

.

MOMMY!

Ruffled feathers, Craig?

What, now you're a master of understatement, too?

Ppl have been trying to get you to stop for weeks. Just look at these posts, Craig -

I think Craig you are here for a reason and it nothing to do with notes.

one suggestion craig... spoon feed me... I can't take all these big bites.

Oh boy.....
This/These threads are a real downer. I think you'll find a lot of good posters are staying away because because of yours.

I think it's a partial criticism in that this IS supposed to be a music forum and it keeps getting turned into everything but, and it's not just you Craig, but you have been a big part of it. The occasional post away from music is OK, but it seems to have gotten out of hand of late. I mean, I'm fairly new here, and enjoyed my first six or so months, but the past three have caused me to lose interest... Aren't there separate political and religious etc. forums out there for this? If I wanted to debate politics, I'd look for a political forum to join and just have a field day with all those like minded individuals that are sure to be on there. Same with religion, medical, and all.
Sans telling people that he loves the Lord and plays for His glory does not call for a religious debate.
Neanderpaul doing his one man band thing, but belonging to a church that doesn't allow musical instruments does not call for a religious debate.
Kramerguy having CP trouble and getting screwed around with healthcare does not call for a political healthcare debate.
As a matter of fact, NOTHING on here calls for debate. Stating your opinion is one thing, but arguing it back and forth is a debate. If I ask for an opinion on a song, give it to me. I'll take it into consideration, but I won't argue with you why I think it's good if you say it sucks. That's debating and doesn't really belong here.
All around, I think Chippy and I and others on here, are just saying, "Keep a music forum about music."
No hard feelings here. Just kinda bummed about the direction this forum has gone. Maybe get the Mods to add more places for other topics.

Wouldn't this be better in the USA forum?

In any case - I'm yawning biggly here...say whatever you want, but this isn't a "general" issue, & ppl's personal fears over the overthrow of the gov't by Obama or Bush are getting tiresome, wherever you decide to post it.

No need to get mad & go, but really...do I need more of this after all I see on tv, or hear on talk radio, or read in the papers or o/l in my e-box from well-meaning folks who really want me to pay closer attention to the fall of whatever?

Craig, I understand your need to remind us, & I can appreciate it.

Can you appreciate that there's only so much I can handle at a time?

Threads like this are why man made Zoloft...I can't take it anymore...I'm so depressed...why can't we all just get along?
...This is sure a gr8 way to start our collective day, ain't it?

...I gotta tell you though, I am disappointed to see this kind of stuff on the boards on a music site where I paid for a premium membership.
I know the argument that this is a general thread but to the moderators now.... do you really want to have a turn-off like this front and center or do you want to sell premium memberships because I personally came here because it's a music site?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09vbngMkCdo

If we must discuss americas politicians on a music site let's discuss this. On a scale of 1 to 10 how do we rate Bill Clinton as a saxophonist? I'll start the bidding at 3.

Craig...

John 4:19

Mark 6:4

This forum has long been your home, but its time. Get to work now.

Wraun,

This gets old. How are you inconvenienced.... dicussions about other things on occassion?

Who said I was inconvenienced? Not me, I am not inconvenienced, I am dissapointed and I'm thinking that I am glad I only bought the 1 month subscription. Do you like knowing that you're having a negative effect on the revenue stream of the site that you think you're contributing to?

Craig...

John 4:19

Mark 6:4

This forum has long been your home, but its time. Get to work now.

You miss this one craig?

WOT THE FUK DOES THIS HAFTA DO WITH WETBACKS???

BTW... everybody..... I'm not that evil cretin that you see in my posts, I'm just trying to bring the hate on me for once.... Don't like the personal attacks that Im seeing of late...

How quickly we anger, especially for spiritually enlighted souls...

Really, seriously...

Are the members of this site going to constipate the forum with threads like this?

Bees soooo glad when I have some music to put up here again!

I'm going to write a song about internet forums... it's gonna be called "don't feed the trolls".

...I don't think anyone considers the physical united states as a believer, so thats why I said it was a turnoff to bring that particular point up in an argument, it sounds condescending

Wow, leave for a while and the forum turns into a religous discussion

I don't have any idea what you guys are talking about. Lol.

I lovr to add fuel to the fire (and brimstone), but I really couldn't care less about this conversation. I just wanted to let everyone know that I am still here and watching...kinda like God. (Oh, boy, now I've done it.).

Anywho. No worries, life is short. so what do you think? Can we terminate this thread (If they are willing?).

Craig you type and type and type and it is so hard to make myself read it all.

It's amazing to look at how smart we think we are, and how much we know about our creator, the universe etc...

Way to write a novel, Craig

The best thing about this thread is it made it easy for me to find a bunch of you guys in one place so I could update my Music list.

Craig! Brother! I enjoy you. We butt heads. It's ok. I love you as a brother in Christ. We can continue this debate. But please be nice.

Just lightening things up a bit. Missed most of this discussion as I have my own beliefs in God and don't feel like opening them up to criticism.

True story. This happened just last year at a local church...

Craig, have you ever been in an anechoic chamber?... Lighten up, dude.

Wow, this is a long read! Craig, do you think you are a prophet? You sound like you think that at the very least...

Hello BobdoB, I see you're a blues guy...

good grief..

Not kidding...

My way of worshiping god is better than your way
My church is better than your church
My GOD is better than your GOD .... ect.

Seen this playout way to many times ... Self-righteous

Man!! Put "Religion" up as a thread-topic and get 16 pages of arguments!! That's some religious beliefs there!!

I am reading through the forums, and I do see that you have a lot of good advice, solicited and otherwise, but one common thread in all your posts, you are certainly sure of yourself to the point of vanity. I do not like to criticize, but I do not mince words either

...To me (and probably most Christians on here) Paul comes across as the most righteous, and you come along as the most self-righteous.

I wasn't refering to you Paul ... you seem to be a mumble person ... unlike Craig

...Do you have any close friends at all, or just people that will just agree with you, just to shut you up?

...good heavens...

Pretty awesome, ain't it? All this & WWIII in here, nearly all thanks to you.

GET HELP

You STILL only want to end it after you get the final word, don't you? You state your point & then ask for it all to end...HOW NOBLE OF YOU!

HYPOCRITE!

You had your say, but wanna end it before anyone else can counter your last word. You're a coward, cuz you obviously don't want to face any more, but you'll fire a parting shot over your shoulder as you run away, all while you cry for mercy. Candy-ass-cry-baby. THIS is what defines you with me, "Glutes." THIS is the same thing you did last year, "GLUTES." You start sh*t up, bug the hell out of ppl for days or even weeks, until they fight beck just a little too well, & then you can't handle the feedback. I'll bet you were a LOT of fun to be around as a kid. And you call ME a bully! Har-dee-har har!

You're damned right you failed, dumbass. We've all been telling you that, in myriad ways, ever since you started up your little jihad against Paul last frikken year, you self-righteous blowhard. We said it again in your last thread.

You aren't trashed for anything other than your boasting & your lousy arguments & your outrageous claims that you have yet to prove. You aren't trashed for anything you haven't EARNED the trashing for.

You may have a very high IQ (which I TRULY doubt), but your EQ's in the basement, & that makes you very stupid, indeed. Get a handle on your mouth. Get a grip on your ego. Listen & keep your counsel to yourself, cuz we've had more than anyone will ever need from you again.

But apologising after you make your last point yet again is STILL considered to be very bad form, "Glutes." In fact, it erases the apology completely, & merely shows you to be still the same old argumentative jerk who now has proven to us all that he can't take the results of his own actions. And then you felt the need to add even MORE bullshit after you apologized & asked for it to end. What a complete asshole you are, "GLUTES!!!"

I have no respect for you. You are not respectable. So go on & run & hide & start up your own little forum to spout your bigotry from, but don't you EVER try it again in here, or any one of us wil no doubt remind you of this little escapade of yours, you big wuss.

Phil,

You are a hateful tiny little man. I have never used the language toward you that you have used against me. You are miserably unhappy. So much so, that having a target for the resentment you feel in your own life, actually brings you joy. You are a bad father. You are virtually alone. And you can't admit the mistakes you have made in life. You mostly bitch, even about the amazing responsibility of caring for a precious two year old. You are a hard and cold individual that believes the world owes him something, for treating you so unfairly. You are a child. Whining for yourself.

Grow up. Or get a real hobby.

And...

I started WWIII did I?

For voicing opinions?

I must have made some strong arguments then. Who gets that upset otherwise? How does calling "stupid" a belief that a rainbow never existed in history until God destroyed 99% of the population, and needed a visual aid, so He doesn't forget not to drowned us all again, how is that damaging to anyone.... unless... it is persuasive as hell.

Which then puts someone in a tenuous position. They either have to change their previous position to the one they now are realizing makes more sense, or they hold to the fallacious and mythological one they previously held. But that's not good enough either, because the truth will nag at them. They can never be quite the same. They won't be as happy as they were holding onto the lie, and they can't easily hold a different position than the entire church they belong to.

That's why I suck.

That alone.

Without that, it's just an argument isn't it?

If I told everyone that they were stupid to believe the world was round, because I KNEW for a fact that it was FLAT.

Would I start WWIII then?

Of course not.

That wouldn't be threatening would it?

Everyone would have laughed at me then, and even looked forward to my posts, so they could laugh at the ridiculoousness of what I believe.

But I have started WWIII, you say.

That is only possible, because I AM having an effect on what they have believed. And THAT is scary. THAT gets people scared and angry and confused.

Just contemplate the truth of what I said again.

If you substituted an argument FOR A FLAT EARTH, in place of a powerful argument AGAINST GOD CREATING A RAINBOW as something humans had never seen before in the sky, until AFTER he killed 99% of the population...

We wouldn't be having this discussion.

What pisses you off, is that I am right, more often than I am wrong.

My own wife hates me for this sometimes.

And she RELISHES, RELISHES, RELISHES when I am wrong.

But that's only because I AM right more than I am wrong.

If I was regularly wrong, then she wouldn't feel that way. It wouldn't be surprising or out of the ordinary then. She wouldn't smile so big and point her finger at me, and rub it in: "You were wrong! Ha!! I got you! You were wrong!!!"

.

Hmmmmmm
So you are going to place a Sermon upon people based upon what you have read on this forum/thread?

If this were the old world where belief were God itself I could bring you an Army because I would believe.

What I worry about is that there are SO MANY quotes that lead nowhere. Where are the sources for such documentation and belief? I don't see many people posting these and from a person who has been on some archaelogical expeditions find it odd that there are no sources for this conversation!

It's easy to cut and paste, easier still to quote. Even easier to destroy.
Building is much harder indeed.

Sadly I have to confess that what I have read here does not lead to any pillars that anyone with any sense would stand under.

Thank you.

I gotta say, these threads are pretty funny...
No really, I'm getting some great sermon material...

I know where those dead end passages you refer to are. They are in the books that were taken out. Alot of references still remain. For example, no where in Neaderpaul's bible does it tell the story of the war in heaven between lucifer and god. Why? its in the Book of Adam and Eve, which was removed by consensus of the church leaders in the early catholic church. There are many references to the "water of life" in the bible, but the reference points to the Book of Soloman, removed by the same humans.

I think that all these people SURE THEY ARE RIGHT, need to rethink it all. Yes, you can find anything you want in the bible. You want a passage to make slavery an ok thing? Its in there. Want it to be ok to divorce? Its in there. Want to kill someone? Its ok, its in there. The bible is like Prego, whatever you want it to justify, its in there. You can take the same quotes and reversed it all too. Its all about interpretation. I see Neanderpaul arguing with his scripture quotes, but a few of them could be interpreted to support or not support both sides. Don't you think if God wrote it, it would be EASY to understand? Its not, and you are stuck on the "church you follow's" opinion if you cannot see that the bible is NOT and easy to understand book, its filled with parables and stories to help explain what, if God had written it, would be easy to understand. The bible is written in the ancient tradition of writing all laws. Word them so only the ones involved in writing them can really understand the author's intent, and let everyone else guess. Keeps them under control better that way. Interpreting the bible is like interpreting the law, it changes by perspective.

LOL Phil. This post is priceless. How long did it take you to weed through all those posts to gather snippets?

Craig, Philby, why fight this out? when the apostles turned their backs on Jesus, did he say hateful things? did he lash out at them? No.

Craig, if you truly are a prophet, and that Rev Mike guy seemed to believe that there was something there, you should take what he wrote you to heart. A prophet in his house will be disrespected.

Philby, craig has a point, you seem to get the most hostile of any one on these forums, you and that crip2nite guy. I really think craig may be on to something when he says you are unhappy, but I think he needs to move on as well.

At least someone had the sensibility to make a specific thread for this discussion, and it seems to be the most popular thread here. People are hungry for dissent. People are looking for a fight. This country is arming itself against each other like prior to the civil war, only this time, the south has the midwest as help, but the north has the west and east coast pretty well locked up, and more populated. Either way, yet another "holy war" is decending upon us, only this time, the end of days will come.

Yes it is.
I don't frankly know how long I will be here? I mean this forum OF COURSE!
To be honest however scrutinizing every simplex means that we want to find something and that something has long since passed.

I'd rather just be, or try to be a good person. Saved a cats life last week which made me feel good. Been a heck load of situations where folks need help and others would just stand back and watch, (Sometimes). Peeps don't like a burden. I'm one now as it happens.

You get the message right?

My message is in my music and that is where it will stay really. I'm NOT a big person. I am a believer in humanity though sometimes I really fear for us all.

So BobdoB
What do you play?
We've been here before, all of us.

Its in there.