General Music Chat

I don't have a brand of Christianity.

You belong to the Church of Christ don't you?

I sure do. The church of Christ
The Church that Christ started. The church that follows the new testament guide of examples and commands without adding to or taking away. Therefor it is not a brand of Christianity it is simply Christianity. No prefixes or Suffixes. No creeds or books other than the inspired word of God.

That particular brand of Christianity teaches that instruments are NOT to be used in worship services, merely because there is not a record of the early Christian churches doing this,

Actually what the bible teaches is that we are to sing. Therefore that is what we teach. That is all it says about the music. We are not instructed or given examples of the new testament Church playing. Therefore it is cut and dry - we sing.

Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord (Ephesians 5:19).

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord (Colossians 3:16).

And again....

merely because there is not a record of the early Christian churches doing this,

Did you really just say that? Like there is some other guide??!! Yes! Because there is no example!

although mimicking a human voice by use of an electronic microphone is apparently acceptable, even though the early disciples didn't have those either.

It is not mimicking, it is amplifying. Much like when Christ used the boat to get on the water where his voice would carry.

Seventh Day Adventists apparently believe the Disciples of Jesus were wrong to worship on Sunday as the Christian sabbath, and that Saturday is still the sabbath for Christians as well as Jews.

Again what does the authority of scripture teach....

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Southern Baptists don't accept baptism by sprinkling.

Again what does the authority of scripture teach....

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Acts 8:38

Every example is in the water. Furthermore the word baptizo translated is immersed

Church of God will accuse you of a lack of spirit if you don't speak in tongues.

Again Scripture is the authority. Today we have the bible. Miracles were to prove that the Jesus and the apostles were truly from God.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

All these denominations claim Christ as their savior.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matt 7:22

All of them find it necessary to separate themselves from other Christians because the trivial tenets of their particular brand is more important to them than unity in the body of Christ.

.

Let's run that thinking all the way out....
You're ok I'm ok. Join the Church of Your Choice. Many paths one destination. Sounds like Unitarians eh?

Now let's compare it to the only authority that matters - Scripture.

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matt 7:14

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, eph 4:5

Again when you love someone you tell them the truth. You don't tell people what they want to hear.

Standing "O".

I don't have a brand of Christianity.

You belong to the Church of Christ don't you?

I sure do. The church of Christ
The Church that Christ started. The church that follows the new testament guide of examples and commands without adding to or taking away. Therefor it is not a brand of Christianity it is simply Christianity. No prefixes or Suffixes. No creeds or books other than the inspired word of God.

That particular brand of Christianity teaches that instruments are NOT to be used in worship services, merely because there is not a record of the early Christian churches doing this,

Actually what the bible teaches is that we are to sing. Therefore that is what we teach. That is all it says about the music. We are not instructed or given examples of the new testament Church playing. Therefore it is cut and dry - we sing.

Speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord (Ephesians 5:19).

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord (Colossians 3:16).

And again....

merely because there is not a record of the early Christian churches doing this,

Did you really just say that? Like there is some other guide??!! Yes! Because there is no example!

although mimicking a human voice by use of an electronic microphone is apparently acceptable, even though the early disciples didn't have those either.

It is not mimicking, it is amplifying. Much like when Christ used the boat to get on the water where his voice would carry.

Seventh Day Adventists apparently believe the Disciples of Jesus were wrong to worship on Sunday as the Christian sabbath, and that Saturday is still the sabbath for Christians as well as Jews.

Again what does the authority of scripture teach....

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Southern Baptists don't accept baptism by sprinkling.

Again what does the authority of scripture teach....

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. Acts 8:38

Every example is in the water. Furthermore the word baptizo translated is immersed

Church of God will accuse you of a lack of spirit if you don't speak in tongues.

Again Scripture is the authority. Today we have the bible. Miracles were to prove that the Jesus and the apostles were truly from God.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

All these denominations claim Christ as their savior.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 6:46

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Matt 7:22

All of them find it necessary to separate themselves from other Christians because the trivial tenets of their particular brand is more important to them than unity in the body of Christ.

.

Let's run that thinking all the way out....
You're ok I'm ok. Join the Church of Your Choice. Many paths one destination. Sounds like Unitarians eh?

Now let's compare it to the only authority that matters - Scripture.

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matt 7:14

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, eph 4:5

Again when you love someone you tell them the truth. You don't tell people what they want to hear.

Many of you love to WORSHIP text, that was "INSPIRED" by God, as if that text WAS GOD.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

We use the bible to learn how God wishes to be worshiped.

Wow! 10 pages (4 of which are chock-full of Craig's meanderings, I bet) & still going strong - what a thread! Of course, there's nothing been resolved other than the Rev Mike prob, but I s'pose that's alright, too.

I just noted that on Sept 7, I posted in the humorous band names thread, & the 1st 2 band names I listed were "The 5th Elephant," & "Bitchy Wife."

Well, yesterday, my wife brought home a book entitled "The Fifth Elephant," by Terry Pratchett, one of her favorite authors. I had no idea that the book existed. I was making a reference to that movie "The Fifth Element."

Still, it's all very eerie & spooky & I feel like a seer & such...LOL

Now all I need do is figure out why it was so important for me to "see" that title in advance...I don't even know any elephants!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Not to step on anyone's faith, but I've read in lots of sources that it's entirely possible that all of Jesus' miracles as reported are little more than odd turnings of language, as Chris was saying, which have been reported as fact by later writers.

We say things like "making a mountain out of a molehill," or, "making a silk purse out of a sow's ear." Ppl reading that in some distant future, say 2,000 years from now, may erroneously conclude that we're talking about miracles instead of using rather popular sayings of the time.

"Raising one from the dead" could well mean bringing one into the faith, or even into a political group, as "he was dead, but by joining our group he has been 'reborn'," for all we know. The inclusion of this mistaken "history" could well be a direct result of the rather unfortunate dating of the writings from a time 60 to roughly 100 years after Christ's death, or even later, as supposed by some experts.

When dealing with the christian bible, I find it difficult to ignore the fact that a) it's entirely possible, nay, probable, that Jesus manipulated prophesies to his own end, as he was one of the few who had read them beforehand; b) his immediate job was not to save the souls of the world, as I understand it, but to oust the Romans, & to rule Israel by his birthright; c) he was not the peaceful lil guy some ppl would have me believe - he used violence & his own frustration to oust the money lenders from the temple- he instructed one of his followers to bring a sword on at least one occasion; d) it's highly unlikely that he was a carpenter - it'd be difficult to be a carpenter in a land with so few trees, where buildings were of stone & brick; e) due to the huge amount of Pauline content in the book, I have to remember just what Paul's job was - to stop the Jewish revolt & insure Roman rule - it seems he did his job all too well, as Jews have become reviled by many (see Farakhan, Gibson, eastern Europe, etc) & Rome was the center of the world for so very long; f) it's highly unlikely that Jesus was unmarried at the time of his death, or that he had no children, due to the mandate given by God to the Jews to go forth & procreate, & the customs of the time - why was this historical fact left out, or why, if indeed he was an unmarried guy, wasn't there some sort of explanation as to why he never married?

If there are this many questions I have just in the gospels section of the bible alone concerning possible incorrect translations, twisted meanings, possible manipulations by the man himself, etc etc etc, how can I accept this as the word of the god? This alone makes me question so much, to which the bible scholar can only say to me that I must have faith...faith in this man-made book? We KNOW it's man-made. It doesn't grow on trees. It doesn't magically appear. It's bought & sold like any other religious or secular book. It's physically created by the same co's that create porn or pulp fiction. Nope. I just don't buy it anymore.

This is not to say that I don't have any faith. I have lots of faith, just not in what I perceive to be a manufactured religion. I'm not saying that you're wrong & I'm right. I'm saying that I perceive things differently. Your faith may be working very well for you & yours. Mine is working for me just as well, as far as I can see.

When christians talk about how they're the only ones who will be saved at the end of time, it just amuses me these days. There was a time that I got my butt up on my shoulder over it, but I outgrew that, & have come to realize that it's yet another inherent flaw in the religion to look down upon others & claim victories not yet won & such. The pious wanderings of some ppl are indeed insulting to us that do not share the faith, but we have to also be thankful that the behaviors of those types of ppl have been thwarted after the witch burnings & the stonings & the 2nd class citizenship that these would have us endure until we bend to their will & join in with the band, as it were. That's what they did in the past. I'm glad we're a secular nation that doesn't allow such things anymore.

There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. Prov 16:25

If you think it through your (my) ego clutters the process. Just trust that God loved us enough to give us all we need.

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 2 pet 1:3

Chris,

I am very familiar with any terminology you will share, so you can avoid the definitions. I have spent far more time on understanding the Bible and the origins of life and any meaning behind it, than I have ever spent on music. I went to Seminary for a short time, and only left for financial reasons, but NEVER stopped studying on my own, despite it not being officially credited to me.

What you should know about me, is that since childhood, I have wanted to know the TRUTH behind all things. I am famous in my family for this, famous for it, since childhood.

So, you can rest assured that ALL I DESIRE, is to know, understand and then FOLLOW the truth, wherever I find it.

So, what I am trying to explain to you, is that you will not find me playing a game with the Bible or any other text. Of course it is absolutely essential to understand the INTENDED meaning of whatever propositions or declarations are being made. Even in human communications, WE MUST be able to UNDERSTAND what the other party MEANS by what he is saying, before any serious consideration can be given to the ideas expressed.

Having said all that (for future consideration on your part)...

Your lesson on establishing the intended meaning of something, has no application here. What are you arguing about? I accepted that the Bible uses the term "day" as a 24 hour period in the first part of my response, and I rejected it as MYTHOLOGY. I compared it to the story of the Rainbow, which is ALSO MYTHOLOGY.

Now, call me a heretic if you like, but DO NOT give me your stock response to the typical characters you argue with on Christian discussion forums.

God DID NOT create the Cosmos, in 6 of OUR 24-hour days.

But for the sake of argument...

Yes, the term "Yohm" can mean a 24 hour period, although it has other connotations as well. But the term "day" as used in 2 Peter 3:8 "A day with the Lord is as a thousand years" comes from the greek word:
"Hemera" and ALSO REFERS TO A LITERAL DAY from sunrise to sunset.

In Genesis a sunrise to sunset DAY is expressed, and yet in 2 Peter 3:8 a sunrise to sunset DAY is ALSO expressed, when it says that a DAY with the Lord is as a THOUSAND YEARS.

This verse in 2 Peter is a QUALIFIER to the term DAY, OUR DAY, A 24 HOUR PERIOD, OR A SUNRISE TO SUNSET PERIOD. It qualifies it, so that WE UNDERSTAND that God's DAYS are not the same as OUR DAYS.

No one is talking about using the term "day" as an ERA.

The Bible itself qualifies OUR TERM "DAY" that when used in reference to God, it could very well mean A THOUSAND YEARS.

Maybe "YOU" personally reject the Bible? Maybe "YOU" personally reject this qualifier? Because you want to IGNORE the clearly stated comment, that a DAY (24 hours) with THE LORD, is as A THOUSAND YEARS (quite a bit longer than 24 hours wouldn't you say?)

This verse is found in the Bible in the first place, to explain to us, that God's time is not the same as OUR TIME.

This is only logical, since OUR TIME is COMPLETELY MAN MADE and derived by NATURAL OCCURANCES that are dependable, such as the Earth rotating around the Sun. Time is MAN MADE.

HUMANS divided the day into something called "hours" and "seconds". And while this time is based on natural events that we can observe, even still, it is ONLY applicable in OUR PHYSICAL WORLD! Without the Earth rotating around the Sun, and without US living on Earth, there would be NO 24 HOUR DAY for us. As you are well aware, a DAY on another planet would NOT be 24 hours.

You can deny scientific facts and findings as irrelevant as a method of DEFINING the arguments on YOUR TERMS, but this is merely a seminary game, and has no basis in REALITY. Paul Himself declares that the CREATION is evidence of the UNSEEN NATURE OF GOD. Understanding the Creation, would then elucidate our understanding of that UNSEEN NATURE of God, would it not? Science is NOT a religion. It is merely a system of finding truth about the nature of physical things through observation, developing hypothesis, and then testing that hypothesis through experimentation and replication of results.

When Paul has said that MUCH can be learned about the Creator through His creation, it would BENEFIT you to pay attention to scientific findings regarding the Creation, as a method of enhancing YOUR understanding of the Creator who designed it.

So, I am sorry Chris, but I won't play YOUR GAME with you. I DO find that scientific facts ARE RELEVANT to an understanding of God's personality and His creative nature. And the Apostle Paul agrees with ME on this, and NOT YOU.

I DO find that understanding scientific facts, is COMPLIMENTARY to understanding even spiritual matters in some instances. We are BOTH spiritual beings AND physical beings, and Science and Religion are ideal PARTNERS in resolving these natures, and understanding them.

Your argument that science has no place in a spiritual discussion, is not intellectual in my view. Rather it is ESSENTIAL, since we are beings of BOTH physical and spiritual natures, and while alive, we can no more separate these aspects of OUR OWN IDENTITY than I would separate science from an understanding of how and why God created in the first place.

God wants you to discover His truths Chris. And the Bible alone can no more contain all the truth of God, than a shot glass could contain the world's oceans.

Broaden your horizons, so you can begin to embrace MORE of the fullness of God, rather than trying to limit our Creator to a niche you are comfortable keeping Him in.

.

Your faith may be working very well for you & yours. Mine is working for me just as well, as far as I can see.

Working how? In this life? great! But we won't know if it really "worked" until judgment day.

When christians talk about how they're the only ones who will be saved at the end of time, it just amuses me these days. There was a time that I got my butt up on my shoulder over it, but I outgrew that, & have come to realize that it's yet another inherent flaw in the religion to look down upon others & claim victories not yet won & such. The pious wanderings of some ppl are indeed insulting to us that do not share the faith, but we have to also be thankful that the behaviors of those types of ppl have been thwarted after the witch burnings & the stonings & the 2nd class citizenship that these would have us endure until we bend to their will & join in with the band, as it were. That's what they did in the past. I'm glad we're a secular nation that doesn't allow such things anymore.

If Christians are following the guide right they don't talk about how they're the only ones who will be saved at the end of time. they instead show what the bible says on those subjects. And they don't kill or persecute if they follow Christ's teaching in the bible.

I'm glad we're a secular nation that doesn't allow such things anymore.

Me too!

God wants you to discover His truths Chris. And the Bible alone can no more contain all the truth of God, than a shot glass could contain the world's oceans.

.

True....

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. John 21:25


But....

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 2 pet 1:3

I sure do. The church of Christ
The Church that Christ started. The church that follows the new testament guide of examples and commands without adding to or taking away.

Bullsh*t!

Your DENOMINATION, the one YOU BELONG TO PAUL, the ONE YOU LOOK FOR, if you were to move to another city, IS your religion. It has a charter, a tax exempt number, and a date that I could look up, if I chose to, of WHEN it was founded. And trust me, the date WILL NOT be 2000 years ago.

And you VERY WELL DO "add" to the disciples example.

You use microphones, which translate a human voice into an electronic impulse, and this travels through a cord to be translated back through speakers, into a FASCIMILE of your voice. It is NOT your real voice, but a DUPLICATION or MIMICKING of your real voice. A sampler on a keyboard does primarily the same thing.

Can I bring a keyboard into your church and play it, as long as each of my keys is assigned using SAMPLES of my voice?

I am betting not.

And yet you do the same thing by using a microphone.

The early disciples DID NOT have air conditioning - YOU DO!
They DID NOT have microphones and PA's - YOU DO!

The early discples DID share ALL THINGS IN COMMON with the other Christians - YOU DO NOT!

So, you can SPEAK that you follow their example to the letter, but you do not! And this makes you a hypocrite where that issue is concerned.

When and if, you truly get in touch with the heart of God, our Father, you can ask Him, and He will tell you, that this is a BLIGHT on Christianity, not a redeemer of it. This division is FOOLISHNESS and NONSENSE, and is inspired by the FORCES OF DARKNESS and NOT the forces of light.

You would have done better to join a group such as "Watchman Nee" and "Witness Lee" (look them up) then to have FOUNDED a NEW church, with a REGISTERED NAME and tax exempt ID.

At least the men I mentioned, encourage Christian churches to DROP their denominational titles and names, and have Christianity united by the churches being called "The church in Jacksonville" or "The church in Hollywood" as they were in early Christian history: "The church at Corinth" - Where the churches were UNITED and ONE, and merely used the city name as a geographical reference.

You are part of a PROBLEM.

Not a solution.

Satanic forces DIVIDE AND CONQUER. Denominationalism is EVIL. It is NOT Jesus' plan for his church. It is NOT helpful to the lost. It is SELFISH and EGOTISTICAL and UNPROFITABLE to the work of God.

When the King went off to a far away country, he left His servants in charge. When He returned, he found that they had abused the people under their charge, and had used the King's treasure for PERSONAL gain, and power for themselves.

Jesus was speaking of the Christian Leaders and Churches of TODAY! The treasure was the love and truth in his words, which he left behind. They have been pillaged and used imporperly ever since.

God will judge this more harshly than you can imagine.

Keep your ears closed though.

Keep thinking you are the elite, the chosen, because you so honorably refuse to allow a musical instrument into a worship service. Let's see if this is really on the top of God's agenda, while millions upon millions of people starve throughout the world, under harsh and brutal dictators, and churches claiming the name of Jesus fight one another over ridiculously trivial doctrines.

Let's see whether God was as devoted a religionist as you.

We already know Jesus wasn't.

But maybe God changed since being in the Flesh?

Or possibly YOU have a higher standard than God Himself did, in the form of Jesus Christ?

Maybe YOU are God? Since you are more loyal to rules than Christ was?

.

I think GOD is where your heart is. It doesn't matter what you follow, just that you follow, abide by rules, do your best in all things though you will fail because of variables.

Everyone has their own beliefs.

Just do the right thing if at all possible, change someone's life for the better. Be there when you are needed and console when you can.

All religions to my thinking say the same thing. It really is up to YOU to make that difference and it has nothing to do with bombs.

There, I commented!

Don't quote..... DO GOOD THINGS!

Craig, it's not my place to call someone a heretic. All the known heresies have been identified in previous synods and councils, so if you fit one of those bills, then they've identified you as such, not me. I don't have the authority or desire to call you anything.

I AM free however, to point out what I think is obvious. You're picking and chosing what you want to believe the Bible to mean, and treat whole sections of the bible as Mythology. At that point, why trust any of the Bible Craig? Certainly if there's one mistake, there must be others, including the part about there being such a thing as God.

You interpret the Bible using the world as your guage.

I on the other hand, take the opposite approach - I interpret the world using the Bible as the guage.

My "lesson" as you put it, on establishing intended meaning has everything to do with the discussion. Either God made the claim, or He didn't. If you're going to say He didn't make the claim, then you can't use science as evidence that He didn't make the claim because at the time of the Genesis account, the sciece for or against long-age theory wasn't adopted - you have to presume it was in order to go there... so you have to presume all you have to go on is God's Word, and do an internal critique of all of God's word to determine if His use of the term is consistent- you have to demonstrate how his claim would create tension in the rest of what He wrote.

It would be inconsistent or at best arbitrary to attribute a thousand years to a Day for Creation, and not to the work day in the command. And yet, in the same and following chapters, we see people breaking the sabbath on a particular "day", not every day of the week because it's currently the sabbath 1000 years.

Furthermore, to say that because God makes the statement "a day is as a thousand years to the Lord" is to mean that wherever you run accross the term day, you should just ignore it as meaning a literal day (replace it with a non-human experiential day) is just absurd. Context means everything. If God's concept of time is conceptually beyond our ability to understand it, then why would God bother trying to convey the un-conveyable? The fact that he does convey things to us presumes we CAN understand it in the first place.

I don't think anyone reading this thread would say I "reject the Bible". I may make mistakes, I think most reading it would say I believe the Bible too much!

You on the other hand, have explicitly made it clear you believe the bible is riddled with mistakes and myths. How is one to take that statement to mean that you Believe the Bible? I'm not saying this to fluster your feathers - it's just obvious by reading your posts that you hold a very skeptical view of the Bible.

Like any other text, you should just read it and presume it means what it means until you have reason to disbelieve it. God, of all authors, is certainly not going to tell you something He knows you're incapable of understanding. The presumption is that the reason He's telling you is because you CAN understand Him. We were made in His Image, so His conceptual framework is Our conceptual framework, only limited in scope.

The best thing about this thread is it made it easy for me to find a bunch of you guys in one place so I could update my Music list.

tsk tsk tsk, Craig!

Challenging a man's faith? His church? Calling him out on it?

Are you on some sort of a quest, or a jihad, or a mission from god, dude?

YOUR ego knows no bounds, does it?

Labelling others with that "hypocrite" tag again? Calling him some sort of blight or problem for mankind? PAUL? Wtf is wrong with you?

Paul is the least divisive person I've met in here. He has his beliefs. He doesn't push them on others, but merely states them, & answers questions about them.

You, however, are at it yet again, ain'tcha? Determined to stir up yet more crap. Get over your bad self, man.

Ah...I remember the months pf peace...MONTHS, Craig. Even Rev Mike knew when to stop being a pain in the ass & leave. Use that intellect you're so fond of. Use your head for something other than a hat rack.

You calling anyone at all a "problem" is really quite humorous, Craig. You don't seem to be able to find any sort of satisfaction unless the rest of the world is as miserable as you, or bowing to your all-knowing "BULLSHIT!!!" You demand answers that you then proceed to tear apart like the beliefs of others were mere tinker toys to you. You obviously have no respect for anyone or anything outside of your own pathetic self.

Your message, once again, Craig, is buried in the considerable depths of your boundless ego. You don't appear to be able to hold an adult conversation without resorting to your usual antics, you poor pitiful excuse for a man. This one just has me at the point where I have zero respect for you. Less than zero. You have become a negative - a negative influence in an otherwise pretty good forum - a negative in regards to your debating abilities - a negative as a human being.

So tell us all again how much you care for others, how much of a peacemaker you are, Craig. Tell us how high your IQ is again. Tell us how you are the only one in the world who has all the answers, direct from the godhead itself. Tell us again how great a person you are, & how you always try so hard to help ppl.

"You are part of a PROBLEM.

Not a solution. "

LMAO!!!!

F*ckin' jerkwad! Grow up, or better yet - STFU!

Or you can cry some more about how "some ppl" have so much antagonism towards you that they can't see your fine qualities, like you usually do, ya clueless buffoon. You'd THINK that god would tell you how much of an idjit you appear as you continue to show us all the red ass on any given subject.

I sure do. The church of Christ
The Church that Christ started. The church that follows the new testament guide of examples and commands without adding to or taking away.

Bullsh*t!

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Your DENOMINATION, the one YOU BELONG TO PAUL, the ONE YOU LOOK FOR, were you to mov e to another city, IS your religion. It has a charter, a tax exempt number, and a date that I could look up, if I chose to, of WHEN it was founded. And trust me, the date WILL NOT be 200 years ago.

A denomination is a division. 1 cor 12:25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.

We do not divide. When a group adds to the scripture I.E. instrumental music, infant baptism etc etc they have divided. If we only follow the scripture we are the Church Christ started.

And you VERY WELL DO "add" to the disciples example.

You use microphones, which translate a human voice into an electronic impulse, and this travels through a cord to be translated back through speakers, into a FASCIMILE of your voice. It is NOT your real voice, but a DUPLICATION or MIMICKING of your real voice. A sampler on a keyboard does primarily the same thing.

It is the human voice amplified. What sound is coming out the speaker? A human voice. What is the image in my avatar? A bunch of ones and zeros? Pixels of light? or my head? It's my head. Talk about trying to divide.

Can I bring a keyboard into your church and play it, as long as each of my keys is assigned using SAMPLES of my voice?

I am betting not.

You're right you can't. But you can sing as directed in the bible. That is what we do.

The early disciples DID NOT have air conditioning - YOU DO!
They DID NOT have microphones and PA's - YOU DO!

They had buildings. The buildings had windows. The air moved about. AC is not an element of worship.

The early discples DID share ALL THINGS IN COMMON with the other Christians - YOU DO NOT!

We share the bond of Christianity. We share that our only guide is the bible.

So, you can SPEAK that you follow their example to the letter, but you do not! And this makes you a hypocrite where that issue is concerned.

Where do we differ? AC and a mic? and I am the divider?

When and if, you truly get in touch with the heart of God, our Father, you can ask Him, and He will tell you, that this is a BLIGHT on Christianity, not a redeemer of it. This division is FOOLISHNESS and NONSENSE, and is inspired by the FORCES OF DARKNESS and NOT the forces of light.

So sad that in anger you lash out as we simply follow the commands and examples. And judge my heart while condemning me for rightfully dividing scripture .

At least the men I mentioned, encourage Christian churches to DROP their denominational titles and names, and have Christianity united by the churches being called "The church in Jacksonville" or "The church in Hollywood" as they were in early Christian history: "The church at Corinth" - Where the churches were UNITED and ONE, and merely used the city name as a geographical reference.

So The Church of Christ is a denominational title? Wow. If you read the name it say we worship,,,, Christ. Wow that is really weird because in Romans.....
Romans 16:16 Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.

So now the apostle Paul is in your view calling the Church a denomination. Is that right?

Denominationalism is EVIL. It is NOT Jesus' plan for his church. It is NOT helpful to the lost. It is SELFISH and EGOTISTICAL and UNPROFITABLE to the work of God.

Absolutely that's why we use the bible as our guide and call bible things by bible names. I.E. The Church of Christ. Romans 16:16 We are the church that follows Christ. The church I worship with is autonomous. With the biblically qualified elders as the highest office. This is a bible appointed leader.

Keep your ears closed though.

They will always be open.... To God's inspired word.

Keep thinking you are the elite, the chosen, because you so honorably refuse to allow a musical instrument into a worship service.

1 pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

All Christians are Chosen Craig. I don't think I'm elite. I think that I am a sinner and that God gave me his will so I could please him, be happy here, and make it to heaven.

and churches claiming the name of Jesus fight one another over ridiculously trivial doctrines.

we don't fight. We just follow the guide.

Let's see whether God was as devoted a religionist as you.

I'm simply a devoted Christian.

Maybe YOU are God? Since you are more loyal to rules than Christ was?

.

I know I'm not God. Christ wrote the rules I try my best to follow. It seems you are trying to rewrite some things. It seems you are trying to say what's in my heart. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed, hoped that your heart was right. It seems that I quote scripture, it convicts you, and you lash out. It also seems you don't trust scripture. Try to be nice Craig. So we can debate like Christians.

And change your avatar pic to one that doesn't encourage destroying the body.

Satanic forces DIVIDE AND CONQUER. Denominationalism is EVIL. It is NOT Jesus' plan for his church. It is NOT helpful to the lost. It is SELFISH and EGOTISTICAL and UNPROFITABLE to the work of God.

Wow Craig. That's pretty certain of you. Did you get that notion from God's creation or the Bible? You certainly can't trust what the Bible has to say about such a thing can you?

I'm being facetious. When you say the Bible can't be trusted or has mistakes, then you've lost the ability to call something Evil since the standard by which evil is defined has been dismissed by you, making everything subjective.

Chris