Ryan_Strain wrote:Hmm, how come when a religious conversation comes up, all the Christians run away and don't back me up...I know there are Christians here. Where are ya, Paul?
George is Christian too Ryan.
Their faith is genuinely held, and neither of them feels the need to get caught up in this kind of fare. It doesn't mean they are afraid. Both of them have shared some of their faith here publicly. I have a feeling they prefer sharing personally with others, and a forum can seem impersonal. I am quite sure that BOTH of them have shared faith in Christ with many others when they saw an open heart willing to listen.
I believe in Jesus too Ryan. I believe I am saved by grace through faith. That Jesus Christ is God in flesh among his children. I agree with you that salvation is by faith and not something that can be accomplished through works. Works are a SIGN of salvation, but not the CAUSE of salvation.
But I DISAGREE with you that 74% of the world is WRONG.
Being "wrong" is a very condemning and broad swipe of the brush to paint other people of faith with. Like many Christians, you may have forgotten that Jesus is "God". Creator God. If other people of faith are praying to the Creator of the universe, and having a relationship of FAITH with the Creator of the Universe, and turned their life over to the Creator of the Universe. Who are you, or anyone else to PROCLAIM they are not saved by the same FAITH you are? God knows who created the universe. God knows who they are praying to, and who they are having faith in, even if you disagree.
The name Jesus is an English version of His aramaic name Yeshua. There is no power in a name. This is a misunderstanding of scripture. It it weren't, then you are believing in the "power" of a wrong name. Since Jesus' mother did not name Him "Jesus". And when the scriptures were written, it was not "Jesus" of whom this power was spoken of. It was Yeshua. The power is in WHO the name is representing. Not the name itself.
Traditional Christian theology teaches that salvation comes through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross. This is mostly due to Paul's elaborate teachings on the penalty of sin, and blood sacrifice, and Jesus being the lamb of God. Paul is not wrong, the Old Testament refers to some of the same theology. But CLEARLY it is NOT Jesus' death on the cross that brought salvation itself. Because people were saved BEFORE Jesus' was even born, and even after He was born, the thief on Jesus' right, was pronounced as saved by Jesus Himself, BEFORE Jesus had died yet.
I don't think any Christian doubts that Paul Himself was saved on the Road to Damscus, and HE DID NOT KNOW at the time, that it was Jesus who was speaking to Him in spirit and a blinding light. Paul merely recognized that the appartition before Him was his MASTER and he bowed down in that very moment, and asked "What would you have me do?"
He didn't call him Jesus at THAT time.
Paul didn't know to call him Jesus at that moment. Paul hunted down and persecuted the followers of Jesus up until that very moment.
But in calling the spirit "Master" he was calling him "Lord" just as the thief on Jesus' right had done. In recognizing that someone is your Lord or Master, you are pronouncing them as your God. This is a crucial and necessary step of salvation. And when Paul said "What would you have me do?" he was asking to SERVE his newfound Lord. He was clearly turning his life over to that Lord. In asking Jesus "Remember me when you come into your Kingdom", the thief on Jesus right side, crucified with Jesus, was AKNOWLEDGING that Christ was Lord, a King, and had POWER over all. He was humbling himself BEFORE THAT POWER. And as a result, what did Jesus tell him?
"I tell you the truth... THIS VERY DAY thou shalt be with me in Paradise!"
That thief was saved! Paul was saved. Both in a single moment.
NEITHER had done any good or charitable work to EARN that.
But also, NEITHER had prayed any traditional prayer of salvation either. Neither said "I admit I am a sinner, and that Jesus died for my sins, and I ask you to forgive me of my sins, and come into my heart and live in me."
Faith in Christ (God) can certainly be expressed through a prayer, but it can be expressed in MANY ways. Because it is not PRAYERS or CORRECT THEOLOGY that saves the soul. It is the transformative MOMENT where the sinner, STOPS BEING THE LORD OF HIS OWN LIFE, and accepts the TRUE GOD, CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE as Lord of his life.
THIS REVERSES THE ORIGINAL SIN, and puts the sinner in the CORRECT relationship to God.
God's love then comes into that person's heart, and becomes ONE, with the sinner. And THIS is salvation. And it CANNOT be lost again. Because the Bible promises that NOTHING.... NOTHING CAN SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD!
If a Muslim or a Buddhist or ANYONE ELSE, has come into this relationship with Creator God, then THEY ARE SAVED. And for you to judge that relationship, is for you to DENY not only their relationship with God, but God's relationship with them as well.
Are you sure you want to make that mistake?
Why then did Jesus' lay His life down, when it was not REQUIRED for the purpose of salvation? Because, as Jesus' said "There is NO GREATER LOVE than to lay your life down for your friend." He willingly went to death, OUT OF LOVE. It is the GREATEST EXAMPLE OF LOVE THERE IS, the greatest example of the deepest love possible. Because we only have ONE life to trade for another's. If Jesus was truly God in the flesh, would he not also display that "Greatest Love" possible that he taught his followers about? And being FREE OF SIN himself, and not deserving such a brutal and painful fate, how much more LIFE CHANGING and MEANINGFUL is that act of love, for those who learn of it? It moves hearts. It changes lives. It affects people, who recognize the injustice of it, and yet respect deeply the SACRIFICAL NATURE of it.
And if people can be saved in other faiths, then why would Christianity be important? Because it was the ONLY religion that God in the flesh established. It is the HIGHEST understanding of God and his LOVE, that the world had ever known. And it still is.
And the love taught in Christianity makes it the most powerful religion there is... if only... the followers of Christ Jesus would PRACTICE more of the love, that He Himself came to Earth in Flesh to SHARE WITH THE WORLD. If only this occured, maybe MANY MANY MILLIONS OF OTHERS would ALSO be moved by the example of Jesus, and not be turned off instead, by the follower of Christ who seems to have less understanding and forgiveness in his heart, than even the soldiers who actually CRUCIFIED Christ.
You yourself admitted that RELIGION does not save people, and yet you are JUDGING 74% of the world's population, based on THEOLOGY which is at essense the STUDY OF RELIGION.
Neither YOU nor I, can know whether a person has a saving relationship of Faith in God. The only parties which can KNOW this of a certainty, are God, and that person. Because it is THEIR relationship, and not YOURS or MINE.
Keep the faith Ryan, but please don't forget that YOUR FAITH and MINE, is supposed to be based in LOVE.
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