General Music Chat

I love that this all started becuase of my two post about revolution and dont tread on me.
Thank you for getting the message out to people Craig, your a better man than I.

DONT TREAD ON ME!

Well, brother, you sparked something. And as I started paying more attention to everything that is going on, I just realized this is a friggin' molotov cocktail being created by our new administration. The combination of programs being jammed down the American people's throats, and all the government takeovers, leading us toward Socialism, along with traditional Democratic stances, are gonna weaken us, not only economically, but militarily and our domestic security. It's a powder keg. And now they are gonna force Health Care through WITHOUT consensus among both parties.

And think about it. Obama's people are sending position statements to one another, saying things like "Military personel coming home from Iraq may be a threat for joining militias" and "Email us with any information being put out about Health Care which seems suspicious to you."

Anyone remember Hitler's Nazis? Turn your neighbors in to the government! And the military? Heroes coming home? WE NEED TO SPY ON THEM!!!

They are mad at George Bush for spying in order to find terrorist plots, and yet Obama's government is SPYING ON OUR OWN TROOPS? SPYING ON THE ELDERLY AND OUR NEIGHBORS!!!!

WTF is going on here?

Our own troops, our senior citizens and our nation's patriots better watch out... apparently, we are a threat and an obstacle to the revolution!

And what about the push to silence talk radio? Why would they do that? Because radio has traditonally been successful for CONSERVATIVES and not Liberals! Would this government really attack free speech itself?

Damn right!

One of Obama's csars was caught on film PRAISING Castro and Che Guevera and then CHAVEZ!!!! Praising Chavez for what? Because his government TOOK OVER THE MEDIA in Venezuela! Took over the media from the PRIVATE BUSINESSES that had owned the various television stations!

He was basically saying, that this is a necessary step, as a guide for what must be done HERE!!! Take over the media outlets so they can be controlled, and the PROPER INFORMATION be put out from the government instead!!!!!!!

OMG!!!!!!

Is this the realizion of Orwell's "Nineteen Eighty-Four"?

Is this our own Kristallnacht?

What the hell is happening to our country?

Is a government full of Chavez admiring and Communism loving csars what the Democrats were really signing up for? Or were well-meaning Democrats left out of the loop on this one?

If there was any doubt, Obama is out of the closet now!

What are Democrats going to do about this? Loyally follow the Nazi party line? Or rebel and say "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"

And why aren't the Democratic leaders up in arms? Is Obama TRYING to create division? Is he TRYING to foster a modern civil war? Is that the plan? Would martial law then be declared as a precursor to outlawing the Second Amendment?

Why does Obama say that a "NEW" civilian force must be established? One that is as WELL FUNDED and AS POWERFUL as the Military? Is he afraid of the Military? Is this "new civilian force" meant to handle Martial Law if and when it comes, rather than our own armed forces? Is ACORN an example of this domestic force that will be running things and patrolling the streets?

A civilian force as WELL FUNDED and AS POWERFUL as the Military.

Why do they hate our Military?

And you are going to tell me that they are not going to weaken our military? They are already weakening our spy agencies.

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Phil,

Of course you wouldn't be concerned about our loss of Freedoms. You don't even like this country. You tell us that all the time.

Why don't you move to Russia?

You'd like it there.

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Have you started up that rant site yet, Craig?

We really need you to do that.

In the meantime...

GET PROFESSIONAL HELP

Oh, & for the record, when someone demeans you, that doesn't by definition mean they are demeaning christianity, Craig, you ego-driven guy, you!

Phil,

Why is it so difficult for you to have a rational thought? Were you dropped as a baby by any chance?

When someone is in the process of demeaning me, and makes a derrogatory comment about CHRISTIANITY ITSELF, then they ARE demeaning ALL Christians. When you demean CHRISTIANITY ITSELF, you ARE demeaning ALL Christians, you dunce!

It has nothing to do with me personally or ego.

Eat some fish.

You'll process information better.

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GET PROFESSIONAL HELP

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Example of a brilliant argument by Phil:

"Did too!" "Did too!" "Did too!" "Did too!"


You're such a child.

If you can't play with the big boys, go help mommy in the kitchen or something.

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Ya know, Craig - if it's a battle of wits you want, I think you're a bit low on ammo...don't start something you can't handle...like you couldn't handle it before, ya lil candy-ass crybaby.

It's obvious why you work alone, now.

It amazes me that you think you're so persuasive, when I see the results of your posts, but I guess some ppl just don't get it. Ppl like you.

Your only goal appears to be chaos, in any group situation. "Divisive" doesn't begin to describe you. You actually think you're doing GOOD, here or anywhere else? Get a grip, Craig. All you do is bust stuff up.

Before you came back, we had MONTHS of peace in the forums. That, for me, says it all. Yeah, there was the occasional asshole to deal with, but there was nothing that came close to the arguments & face-offs we've seen since your return. It's YOU, Craig. "It's ppl like you what cause unrest!" I LOVE that Monty Python quote, cuz it describes you to a "T."

Did you come back as "Stringdancer" for a short time? Nah, even HE had more wit than you.

I'd be willing to bet the homestead that you can't leave this alone. You always must have the last word.

You ARE a Chicken Little personality. Just look at the threads you've posted! America's COLLAPSING!!! GUITAR HERO GAME TAKES OVER BARS!!!! Eeeek! Look OUT for what's coming around the next corner! They're gonna legislate HURRICANES!!!

You keep bragging about how you've kept your visions to yourself for TWO WHOLE YEARS, like that was some sort of wonderfully powerful act of will. WHY, oh why, did you have to break that silence, ya wannabe? Just when did you think that one up, anyway? I'm still waiting on my miracle, ya liar!

Don't come in here presenting yourself as something you aren't & expect me to keep off your back.

You aren't interesting, no matter how many books you may claim to have been written about you. You are a narrow-minded, selectively well-read individual who thinks he knows way more than he actually does about every given subject. You are an EXPERT on Billy Ray Cyrus? MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!! I think even HE would have a good laugh at your expense on that one!

Was it God that told you about ol' Billy Ray, Craig?

STFU

Get a REAL life so you don't hafta give us all these outrageous claims, Craig. I don't believe 90% of them, bub, cuz if even HALF of them were true, you'd be a MUCH better person than you are.

From what you've said, even your wife doesn't wanna hear your droning on this sh*t anymore. Take a hint, lard ass. Get off the soap box.

GET PROFESSIONAL HELP

I'll make a deal with ya. Gimme a prophesy about something totally unusual that will happen this week in the news. Something unexpected. You do that, & I'll stay off your back.

Until then, go start your rant site & quit bugging us & stirring the pot of dissention in here. We quite like it here. We don't need your constant buzzing in our ears with tales from the dark side, ya lil demonish implike squirrelly mouthy wordy twit.

Whatever you do...

GET SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP

...cuz it's really clear that you need it.

My only purpose for my last post craig was to point out that you are right, often people do accuse others of things they are guilty of themself. You accused me of being a narcisist egomaniac. Now you are on the receiving end of such accusations of your belief...only difference is I know my place, I know my mission from god, and it is not to defend the bible, it is not to declare superior knowlege, none of it.

Phil, you want a miracle, you will get one as a sign that the universe is always with you, it is not a sign to prove anyone's righteousness. Watch for it, often we dismiss the little miracles we are given everyday, but this should be just enough out of the ordinary that you realize what it is and you are expected to do nothing for it. One of you said it right, I think it was sam, there is no cost to salvation, no price need be or needed to be paid...god is not bloodthirsty, he doesn't need human sacrifice, NEVER DID...and that is part of why the story of jesus never made sense to me, why was god so bloodthirsty? Anyway, watch for your miracle phil, Craig, keep the ego in check, and sam, write some more music so you can get it up here! lol

Hey Mike, can I ask you to do one thing for me?

Can you please not dissect my posts for your responses? It makes it very hard for me to respond to multiple quotes when I push the quote button. And it would make a post so long for the others to scroll through to read something that has already been written. I would have to go through and delete any of my parts that you quoted, and that would take forever, and it would also make your response look like it makes no sense, because people then won't be able to see what you were responding to.

If we are to have any kind of debate, you should be able to respond without dissecting in that manner. It's ok to just type your thoughts out in a post without doing that. It would just be easier on everyone. And I do want to than you for keeping this discussion civil. This discussion isn't going to come between us on my end ok.

I understand that your stance is that if illegal immigrants didn't exist, then the work would be outsourced. That is just not true in the field of custom woodworking shops, or even the Mold-making shop I spoke of earlier. In these fields, the whole purpose of having a custom shop is to build the product... In the shop. And install.. On site. Do you honestly think that a custom shop would be able to solicit work by saying "let us build your custom remodel, we buy everything and have it built from China?"

What happens in the auto industry means nothing as to how things are done in custom woodworking. The analogy doesn't work when talking about this field.

Custom woodworking shops cannot feasibly economically have their work done in another Country and have it shipped over here to then be installed. Large Corporation production basic cabinet shops do that. But the product is cheaply built with inferior materials. People looking for Custom Entertainment centers, Cabinets, Bars, Cedar closets, built to specifically fit their homes or mansions, usually aren't looking to have it done with cheap production products. The materials, hardware and methods used in custom woodworking are far superior to production products.

And in the mold-making business??



All the parts you see on the floor are made of concrete. That amount of work was produced daily. Look at how many concrete parts are on the shelves. Do you even realize how much that would have cost to ship from even another State? Why do you think Sheldon Addelson wanted the stuff built here in Vegas? That kind of production went on for 2 1/2 years.

Look.. I can see where this is headed. And it's going to be very circular between us.

My stance is that this kind of work could have been done by American workers, and the lower paying jobs could have been given to American youth (young adults), instead of illegal immigrants.

Your stance will most likely be that the owners shouldn't have hired them, and should have had their license pulled. It's not the fault of the illegal immigrants that they received all of the work.

My stance would be that they shouldn't have been in this Country in the first place, they had no legal right to be.

Your stance would most likely be that it doesn't solve the problem, the work would have been outsourced if they weren't in this Country.

FLAG This is where the circular motion stops. This is where your stance doesn't hold water. The work CANNOT be outsourced.




That's not the problem.

That is the problem. They illegally entered this Country and denied work to legal Americans.

The company shouldn't have hired them, they should have had their license pulled.

They shouldn't have been here in the first place.

If they weren't here the work would have been outsourced.

FLAG

Do you see the circular pattern here?

I have stayed out of this rambling thus far but I have to say I am a little hurt. Not that anyone gives a flying f**k.

I just want to share the good news I have, and I am used to persicution.

Yet this: Are the members of this site going to constipate the forum with threads like this? Go find a Jesus site to push your religious beliefs. Kinda stings.

What about my First Amendment rights?

You guys can sing about anything you like. Why cant I?

Me and mine will praise the LORD.

Hey sans. I care, man. I doubt that that post was meant for you, but was written in the heat of the moment, at least it's my hope. Ppl have become pretty tired of this thread. It's just frustration talking. Don't take it personally when things get out of hand, as they seem to do whenever a disruptive influence gets going on a thread.

As far as whatever you want to sing about, you GO, boy! I'm all for it, even if my beliefs are different.

I want to say that I appreciate the fact that you don't hit us with all the lengthy posts, or try to force anyone to your way of thinking, all while staying true to your beliefs. You're a good christian, for that if for nothing else. Teach by example. Yep. I respect you a lot, & hate to see you, too, get worked up in this clusterfuck.

So far there have been several ppl at each others' throats over ths stupid, stupid thing. It's a damned shame that it occurs. But I expct it to continue for awhile yet before it simmers down. Take heart, though. We'll be back to our old selves soon, grid willing.

I'm sorry Sans -- that comment was not meant for you. It was written hastily in the heat of the moment. Phil is right. I (along with several others) am sick of this thread, Instead of doing the bigger thing and ignoring it, I became a troll of sorts, instigating the thread to go further.

Like I wrote earlier in the thread, I'm not going to tell anyone they are wrong for believing what they believe. I happen to not believe in Christianity, but that doesn't mean that Christianity is wrong. Who's to say, really?! I like the way you approach your faith Sans because you aren't pushing your system of beliefs on the others in the forum, though you make your beliefs clear. I respect that, and had no intention of offending you. I'll make more of an effort going forward to choose my statements more carefully out of respect for the people that I like on this forum.

Please accept my apology.

Done.

I love a happy ending

Hey Mike, can I ask you to do one thing for me?

Can you please not dissect my posts for your responses? It makes it very hard for me to respond to multiple quotes when I push the quote button. And it would make a post so long for the others to scroll through to read something that has already been written. I would have to go through and delete any of my parts that you quoted, and that would take forever, and it would also make your response look like it makes no sense, because people then won't be able to see what you were responding to.

If we are to have any kind of debate, you should be able to respond without dissecting in that manner. It's ok to just type your thoughts out in a post without doing that. It would just be easier on everyone. And I do want to than you for keeping this discussion civil. This discussion isn't going to come between us on my end ok.

I understand that your stance is that if illegal immigrants didn't exist, then the work would be outsourced. That is just not true in the field of custom woodworking shops, or even the Mold-making shop I spoke of earlier. In these fields, the whole purpose of having a custom shop is to build the product... In the shop. And install.. On site. Do you honestly think that a custom shop would be able to solicit work by saying "let us build your custom remodel, we buy everything and have it built from China?"

What happens in the auto industry means nothing as to how things are done in custom woodworking. The analogy doesn't work when talking about this field.

Custom woodworking shops cannot feasibly economically have their work done in another Country and have it shipped over here to then be installed. Large Corporation production basic cabinet shops do that. But the product is cheaply built with inferior materials. People looking for Custom Entertainment centers, Cabinets, Bars, Cedar closets, built to specifically fit their homes or mansions, usually aren't looking to have it done with cheap production products. The materials, hardware and methods used in custom woodworking are far superior to production products.

And in the mold-making business??



All the parts you see on the floor are made of concrete. That amount of work was produced daily. Look at how many concrete parts are on the shelves. Do you even realize how much that would have cost to ship from even another State? Why do you think Sheldon Addelson wanted the stuff built here in Vegas? That kind of production went on for 2 1/2 years.

Look.. I can see where this is headed. And it's going to be very circular between us.

My stance is that this kind of work could have been done by American workers, and the lower paying jobs could have been given to American youth (young adults), instead of illegal immigrants.

Your stance will most likely be that the owners shouldn't have hired them, and should have had their license pulled. It's not the fault of the illegal immigrants that they received all of the work.

My stance would be that they shouldn't have been in this Country in the first place, they had no legal right to be.

Your stance would most likely be that it doesn't solve the problem, the work would have been outsourced if they weren't in this Country.

FLAG This is where the circular motion stops. This is where your stance doesn't hold water. The work CANNOT be outsourced.




That's not the problem.

That is the problem. They illegally entered this Country and denied work to legal Americans.

The company shouldn't have hired them, they should have had their license pulled.

They shouldn't have been here in the first place.

If they weren't here the work would have been outsourced.

FLAG

Do you see the circular pattern here?

"I understand that your stance is that if illegal immigrants didn't exist, then the work would be outsourced."
That's quite a simplification.
If you argument is true/correct to any degree, then we only have ourselves to blame. We are to blame for letting our govt allow biz owners to hire illegals w/o severe consequences...
regardless or your argument - we are to blame for the outsourcing that has (IMO) had a much greater impact on our economy.

you make at least one good point: that some of this stuff can't be outsourced. Sure, what can't be outsourced is done here, very true, but I spent about 10 years in the cab biz and I saw first hand how things became more and more modular. The custom work that is being done is getting more competitive because they don't get all those new home build/kitchen jobs now - those are often modular kitchens that are 90% pre-built (more on that later).

next time your at the shop working on concrete... take a long hard look at your tools...

Anything that can be outsourced IS (all the hardware for doors, all the screws, all the drawer slides, the tools we use, the sandpaper, the stain, the mdf, the delivery trucks, the work boots we wear, the earplugs we use), and anything that can become modular DOES.

all this means there is less and less of a position for guys with any skill.

I mostly built countertops, but In the shop I worked in, when I left, raised panel doors were about 50/50 between what they actually manufactured and what was purchased pre-built and I believe that the pre-made stuff was made in mexico, begging the question: would'nt you rather they build them in america, pay tax here, spend money on food here etc?.




As with any argument nothing is ever all 'one way'. sure, illegals impact our un-skilled/semi-skilled jobs to some degree... but I still don't know anyone who's lost their job to an illegal... and I know tons of folks in the IT biz who's job has been outsourced. Turn on the tv and hear all about the gm jobs going overseas... I would bet that impacts our unemployment rate on as scale that immigration cannot even compare to.

so, in summary... I just want everyone to be mad where it will do the most good.

I'm going to write a song about internet forums... it's gonna be called "don't feed the trolls".

I'm going to write a song about internet forums... it's gonna be called "don't feed the trolls".

See?

This is the kind of remark that fuels the flames. You just got here to be so uppity. If you don't enjoy a lively debate then don't participate in it. But don't go around trying to enforce your will on everyone else.

Why do some people act as if a heated discussion is going to make someone wet their panties? We've had heated discussions before. Everyone gets over it, and continues on.

Serious discussions on these kinds of issues usually means strong opinions one way or the other. Why is that such a big deal?

When everyone is throwing their best arguments out there, EVERYONE is bound to learn something.

Immigration affects Shredd in a strong way. So it brings up emotional responses. This is how I feel about God and spirituality. And when SOME people here criticize me for my belief system, it affects me in the same way.

The issues we care most about are going to bring out the strongest emotions. Adults can deal with that.

IT's funny how I post a thread on my OPINION and get attacked for it. I didn't tell anyone they had to believe in my position. I didn't threaten anyone. I simply posted my opinion.

Am I really at fault for having an opinion? Or are the FEW people sticking their noses into a thread they allegedly don't care about at fault here?

It has to be the latter, otherwise the statement being made is, that we are only allowed to post threads on approved topics. Who does the approving? Did someone elect a committee?

If you have no interest in a thread, why inflame it?

That makes YOU the troll doesn't it?

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