General Music Chat

That's funny...awhile back you claimed to have 4 or 5 books written about you...now it's only one, the title of which you haven't shared. How unlike you, Craig!

No Phil,

I never said that 4 or 5 books were written ABOUT me. I said that I was MENTIONED in half a dozen books. But it's more than that I just found out. Closer to a dozen. And I don't recall whether I said before that a book had been written ABOUT me or not. But now you know. It wasn't mass produced, because a publisher couldn't be found for it at the time. The book industry collapsed around that time, and it is VERY difficult to get published by a major company, even now. For a long while now, they stick with things considered safe. Big deals with known commodities, like a Bill Clinton, Sarah Palin, etc... or a tell-all with some high level administration member, or known and proven authors.

But you can find the copyright for it, which is listed on the U.S. Copyright site:

http://www.copyright.gov/search

It underwent a few title changes, so one or both may be listed. I am listed as a co-author because I dictated the story and made some suggestions. Just do a search "Maxim, Craig" and choose the "NAME" field.

I think the last title was "www.Xmoonies.com" which is the name of a website I founded, but no longer have the domain name for. That website became very popular, and it can be found mentioned in the book: "The Idiot's Guide to Religions Online" which used to be found in most major bookstores. I was kind of surprised when I was in Barnes and Noble, and was looking through that book one day, and saw that the book talked about me and my website. I haven't been active in anti-cult work for a decade or more, and I still get mentioned in newspaper stories and magazines from time to time. Books too. Didn't you see the link I left awhile back to the "John Gorenfeld" book that just came out, and several paragraphs talk about me?

So you're proud of those God-given qualities, are ya?

I am happy and RELIEVED to be "in the loop" Phil. Life can be scary as it is, and when you ponder the big questions, like how it began and why, and what our purpose is, it is comforting to have some evidence for a God, who has an ultimate purpose, and to not have doubts about whether anything matters or not, or whether our consciousness will continue or not. Who wants to live their life committed to a belief system, only to find it was wrong. Or worse, not to even find that out, because the grave really was the end of our lives, the end of our thoughts and emotions, the end of our SELF.

What did you do to earn them?

Absolutely nothing.

But I can tell you what I have done to KEEP THEM. Which is that I always LISTEN. And I am always LOYAL to the giver of the gifts and messages. You don't know my heart, so this is all hot air to you, but God DOES KNOW MY HEART. He trusts me. And I have proven to Him, over decades of time, that the trust is justified. I can honestly say, that I would not trade all the money and power of the world, to deny him. And as anyone who knows me can attest, I will cling to Him before anything or ANYONE else in this world. I value that relationship more than I value life itself.

What have you to be proud of, Craig, when it comes to "God-given" gifts?

It's not something to be proud of Phil. I have no special powers, or magical abilities that come from anything I HAVE DONE. I just have a relationsip with someone who IS POWERFUL and who IS MAGICAL. He tells me things, He gives me dreams and visions, HE puts me where I am supposed to be. I am not proud of that, so much as I am GRATEFUL for it. I feel safest in the center of God's will. I don't fear ANYTHING when I know I am where God wants me to be. I trust Him. I trust Him completely.

Now, I am proud of the other things I have done. Things that were about my own efforts. But spiritual things are not about my effort. They are about God's efforts.

I have shared them here, in the hopes you may take the things I have said a little more seriously. Because there are very dark days coming. The likes of which the world has never seen before, and will never see again. The times prophesied by MANY Psychics, Sacred Texts and ancient cultures, ARE HERE. We are about to live them. This nation itself, is about to be shaken to it's core. When it comes, it will come swiftly, and forcefully, as if it was a set-up, with every piece falling into perfect place, as if some grand plan, decades in the making is unfolding at break neck speed. When it comes, everyone will look around in shock and say "What the f*ck is happening? How is this possible?" It will be 9/11 on crack.

Oh yes! "Decades of study," was it? HAH! From what I've seen & heard from you, your "decades of study" don't hardly amount to anything more than my occasional amount of perusing. Perhaps I should be proud of that, eh?

Do you meditate? Do you pray? How forceful and serious are your prayers? I have soaked my shirt in tears when praying on occassion. I have prayed for 5 hours straight or more on occassions. Do you fast? I have fasted with water only, for 7 days, 8 days, 9 days and 10 days before, and done so a dozen times or more. The last time was about 5 months ago. Do you read and study, or merely peruse casually as you indicated? I have owned and read more than 100 books, just on the subjects of God and world religions. Do you just read about other religions or do you visit them? I have participated in many numerous and varied religious services, and have sought out priests and ministers and theologians and teachers of these religions.

Look, if we were discussing bass techniques, you have forgotten more than I will ever know. If we were talking woodworking, Shredd knows more than I will ever know. You are in my field of expertise now. It's funny how their lifetime of experiences and learnings in their respective fields, earn respect from you, and yet my lifetime of experiences and learnings are only worthy of ridicule by you. Religion and religious beliefs, whether right or wrong, are documented and CAN BE studied and mastered. Things of a spiritual and religious nature have not been a driving force in your life. You have pursued OTHER interests more vigorously. And so you know more about those things, than this, because you have spent more man hours on them. But these things HAVE been a driving force in my life, and have created in me, an unquenchable thirst for knowledge of them, and so I HAVE spent more man hours on this, than ANYTHING ELSE (including music).

I don't insult Shredd for claiming to know more about woodworking than just about anyone else here. I believe what he says. It seems clear, he has spent the time necessary to have a mastery of it.

I don't need to try to stack myself up against a self-inflatable blowhard, Craig.

Then why do you? I am not competing with you. I just shared personal experiences publicly. You say that I cannot know you, and you assault me for saying a few things to you like: "Whatever is motivating you, doesn't seem to make you happy, or encourage others toward love" and yet, YOU DO know me somehow, and are assured that I am egotistical and suffer mental disorders and think I am better than everyone else, and I have a messiah complex, and the list goes on.

How is it that I don't know anything about you, and you attack me for even suggesting a few things, and yet you know so much about me? And are perfectly justified in those opinions?

In other words, it's wrong for me to presume to deduce A FEW things about you. And yet you are perfectly justified in assuming VOLUMES about me?

But I am the hypocrite?


.

I have to agree with Crip.

You should ASSIMILATE if you are going to be a part of this nation.

Why?

Why "should" they assimilate? Because you said so?

I happen to be fascinated with Japanese culture (well, many cultures really, but going to use that as an example). If I were going to move there for a few years, I'd certainly want to learn the language and customs. But I'd want to do that so I could be successful in that society - not because someone else thought I "should".

If a person doesn't want to assimilate, that should be their choice. That doesn't mean you have to cater to them. They may end up not making it, they may not survive or thrive, but at least they have the choice to choose their own fate.

Man, I hate people who try and force their views on the world, and take away people's choices...

It will be a source to destroy us

America was born on the backs of diversity. Embraced, our diversity is our strength.

It will cease to be a nation of "states" and become a nation of "mini countries".

Really? You think? Or is that just your standard right-wing fear talking?

Isn't the opposite just as likely? That we'll become a diverse nation of many customs and that our diversity will make us stronger, because we'll have a wider pool of experience to draw from?

Diversity is not something to be feared.

What is the cohesive factor, if not language and a common belief in freedom?

The cohesive factor is freedom - not language. Freedom and the ability to choose one's destiny. This is why people come here - because they don't think they have a choice where they are at now. They come here because of HOPE - the hope that they can choose for themselves, and that their own choices will give them the life they desire.

Most people are willing to fail as long as they can fail on their own choices. What human beings cannot tolerate is failure on someone else's terms, without their own voice being heard and their own heart being followed.

And you can have that without common language. Freedom is a concept anyone can understand, and choice is a concept anyone can understand, and that should be the thing that binds us.

And it has been, and I believe it will continue to be. But the fear-mongering right-wing uber-religious types are the ones I worry about. They try and take away rights, they try and remove choice, and they use fear to intimidate people, and they hide behind hate and prejudice; but people aren't all stupid, and they can see beneath the veneer.

"Because YOU are not spiritually open, does not mean that others are not. "

"Of course I am proud of my qualities."

Dude...seriously...get some help. I feel bad for what you prolly went through & all, but jeez...I don't wanna wade through all the crap you've written to find specific quotes & all. You ain't the friendly, touchy-feely guy you think or claim you are. You're no leader, from what you've shown us, in any realm, spiritual or other. You ain't no messiah.

"Just do a search "Maxim, Craig" and choose the "NAME" field."

I'm sorry, but I just don't find you all that interesting. Not nearly as much as you seem to interest yourself.

" Because there are very dark days coming. The likes of which the world has never seen before, and will never see again. The times prophesied by MANY Psychics, Sacred Texts and ancient cultures, ARE HERE."

This has been said time & time & time again, Craig. The 1st millenium. The 2nd. A gazillion times in between. Lots of others are saying it, too. You're just another dark voice in the void. "Want some Kool-Aid?"

Give ME a miracle, Craig, or shut the f*ck up already. Put your money where your mouth is. Far as I can tell, you're just one of them "false prophets" the bible warned us about. Looking at your background, that statement even seems more believeable than anything you've said thus far.

Your reactions to Y2K say a lot about your "in" with the divine, Craig.

Guess what? I DID NOTHING THE SLIGHTEST BIT DIFFERENT! You know why? Cuz I had FAITH, man! I KNEW there was nothing to fear. Yeah, I know there are darkER times coming, but it ain't gonna be the end of it all, & I am NOT gonna allow you to frighten me with your warnings of woe & disaster.

Buzz off with that sh*t. Get some real help. I feel very sorry for you, but warped by bad experiences or not, you're just a lil skeeter in here that won't quit buzzing us all, & you need the occasional swat to keep you in line. Take my advice, for yourself.

GET HELP

BOOK ABOUT ME:

Type of Work: Text
Registration Number / Date: TXu001019322 / 2001-10-15
Title: www.Xmoonies.com.
Description: 489 p.
Copyright Claimant: Craig Maxim, 1965-, & John C. Smith, 1955-
Date of Creation: 2001

John Smith is a theologian and author of several books. This one is about me and my anti-cult work.

-----

John Gorenfeld Book:



The book above has several parapgraphs on me. The author considered my experiences so important, that he had planned on writing an entire Chapter just on my life, but had already finished most of the book before he located me. He had been searching for me for a year. You can read some of this book from the Amazon site, and several of the paragraphs on me come up. Search my name in the book. "Craig Maxim"


Amazon.com SEARCH:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%22craig+maxim%22

This brings up 5 books I am mentioned in, but there are many others. Some are out of print and others are foreign language books, not always listed on Amazon.

-----



The Complete Idiot's Guide to Religions Online:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Idiots-Guide-Religions-Online/dp/0789722097/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251842192&sr=8-1

The book above gives a short paragraph about my life, and my former website www.moonies.com - If you click on "Look Inside" from the book cover on Amazon's site, and choose "Index" you will see my site listed on page 377

-----

Interview with the Washington Post newspaper:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/cult/unification/main.htm

You can search the ARCHIVES of the Washington Post newspaper and I am quoted in at least one other article. Maybe several. I have been interviewed by the Washington Post a few times.

-----

This page lists some of the interviews I have done:


http://www.geocities.com/craigmaxim/c-3a.html

-----

Fox News "The Edge with Paula Zahn"

While no one has posted the ORIGINAL story where I was interviewed on-air, I did find a FOLLOW-UP story posted on YouTube, where I am mentioned by name within the first few minutes:

VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENBUTZL47kc

-----

Wikipedia:

Ha ha... I used to be mentioned on Wikipedia as a famous critic of the The Unification Church but I just checked, and someone has altered the article, and gotten me taken off. They're still afraid of me. LOL

-----


In any event, strangers have recognized me from the Fox News interview, and others, and MILLIONS of Japanese know me by name, cause I have been interviewed on national television there 2 or 3 times. One of my interviews with the Washington Post stopped one guy's run for the Senate dead in his tracks. He was pissed to say the least. I caused some trouble for Jerry Falwell when I was interviewed on TV in his hometown of Lynchburg, VA. I am told I appear in several documentaries. And there are students in various universities worldwide who have done projects and educational papers on my life.

I joined a group that I thought was following God. God lead me out of it, through prayer and dreams, and after a few years of piecing what happened all together, I realized how destructive and dangerous this group really is, and became a vocal critic of them. Because of my first hand experiences with the cult leader, a false messiah, named "Sun Myung Moon" and because of my extensive articles exposing the group, and providing information to the public, I became world renowned as an expert on this group.

I had been a part of it, and I was determined to help others get out of it, or avoid it altogether. This was not FUN, and in fact was dangerous and risky. Moon has a complex web of business and media enterprises, not the least of which is the "Washington Times Newspaper" which you guys no doubt hear quoted on radio and TV on a nearly daily basis. This is a POWERFUL group, they are evil and deceptive, they want to take over the world for Moon, and they have high level contacts worldwide, including in our own government. Like President Bush Sr. who has taken millions of dollars in speaking fees to promote Moon's newspaper in South America.

I have received NUMEROUS death threats for speaking out against them.

But as I have said. God puts me where he wants me, and I fear no evil, when I am doing his work.

.

ColorsFade,

Assimilation does not mean abandoning your own culture and background. It means fitting in, conforming to some degree to the cultural norms of the society you live in.

This is important for COHESIVENESS.

If large parts of the country began speaking other languages, running the local governments in those languages, and they found more common bond in their own past culture, than in the ideals and laws of this country.

What do you think will happen?

One day we could break apart just as the Soviet Union did.

.

Two words for you, Craig -

GET HELP

I have to agree with Crip.

You should ASSIMILATE if you are going to be a part of this nation. It will be a source to destroy us, as this gets out of hand. It will cease to be a nation of "states" and become a nation of "mini countries". What is the cohesive factor, if not language and a common belief in freedom? And yes, all of us paying into the same system.

.

Like I said.... I was being facetious .... I was posting as a typical, stereotypical, redneck bastid! I honestly feel every human being should strive for success no matter how they go about doing it... if it means sneaking into another country to try and eek some sort of living because they can't survive in their own predicament, more power to them! We are all human beings.... we don't own this earth.. we have to "assimilate" wherever we can on this planet... even if it means moving out of our homeland to survive!

You know what Phil?

I participated for a year and a half here, without mentioning any of this stuff. I didn't mention that I was known worldwide as an expert on destructive cults. Or that a book had been written about me and I am quoted in a dozen others. Or that I have had a wealth of other experiences. Am I just supremely clever in my egoism and alleged messiahness? Was it a 1 and a half year set up?

You have challenged me on just about all of the things I said I have done, and I spent an hour here running the links down, and then you say you won't bother to check them out, and accuse me of being full of myself and thinking I am the messiah. Like I said previously, you are not interested in evidence for ANYTHING. You want to believe what YOU WANT to believe, whether it is true or not.

Grow the f*ck up.

You are a wounded little boy, and you have hurt a great many people in your life as a result, because you are so angry over the injustices done to you, both real and perceived. It's time to grow up and time to own up. God has been after you for a very long while, and you spit on Him constantly.

Your life would have been far different by now, but you refused to walk through any of the doors God opened for you, and chose to feel sorry for yourself instead.

You can't admit how true this is, because you work so hard to make people think you are something you never were.

You cannot fake a life, any better than Christian Lee can fake a musical career.

God loves you in spite of what you have done to others.

He isn't a myth. He is your Father.

You are incredibly selfish and incredibly shallow. The people who really know you, know this, and God is gonna break you, so he can save you.

But you've been stubborn all your life.

So you'll keep fighting it.

No one has ever won that fight.

Surrender, and discover that God wants something different for you.

You will never be happy until you do.

.

Mikey, if you read the time I posted that, it was something like 4 in the morning. I didn't have the time. I have a guitar to rewire and set-up, band practice, and 2 back to back gigs Wed and Thu. I didn't leave in a huff, I was simply tired and I know I have a lot to do in the next few days.

For one thing, you're adding your own time-frames to things. Show me where I mentioned a matter of 6-months. That's what I consider spinning.

Cheap labor had taken over the cabinet business here years ago. That's why I eventually left that craft. The highest paid person in any custom shop was eventually dragged down to $15/hr (now it's around $11). Do you think it's because the job isn't very hard to do? Or would you rather tend to see it as cheap labor dragging the wages down?

Let me give you another example of something I experienced in the pattern-making business.

After a mold is made of an architectural part, it is sent over to have the part made of concrete. In the company I worked for at the time, the whole concrete department was employed by illegal immigrants. The crew was about I would say 50--60 illegal workers in the department.

We were building the whole outside facade of the Venetian hotel.

Not only was there not ONE American worker in that department, but the head of the department was illegal himself, and he would solicit other illegal workers FOR A WEEKLY FEE TO HIMSELF IN CASH to be employed there. Very few of them made a dime over minimum wage.

This guy had developed such a stronghold on the people he brought in that when the company found out about his skimming of their wages and they fired him, THE WHOLE DEPARTMENT refused to show up to work for 3-days. The company had no choice but to bring him back. Their overhead was $800,000 per month.

So not only did the head of the department discriminate and decide who worked there, he held the company hostage for the next year and a half and still continued to skim his worker's wages. Had the company tried to turn him or his crew in to any authorities they would have went under. There was no way to replace and re-train a workforce that large. And they had their hands tied behind their backs by the high-profile of what was being built, and who it was being built for.

So these particular illegal immigrants had created their own rights to work within our Country. Can't say I feel too sorry for the company, it was their mess they created. But it still stands that American workers were barred from working in that department by the illegal Mexican nationals themselves. And even if one had been hired, he would have been denied a chance at a fair wage.

I just don't think you understand how big of a problem it can be Mikey. Once a group of illegal immigrants make up a big portion of a company, they have a way of holding the company hostage, and finding ways to keep American workers out of the picture. The only way they can keep that stronghold, is to work for cheap wages, and band together as a unit..

You can't justify any of it by saying, 'well if it was that easy of a job to do, then you deserve to have the job taken from you" or " If it's that easy than you deserve to be denied the right to work" or "they're doing work Americans don't want to do".

A legal American worker in the US has every right above ANY illegal worker no matter how "easy" the job may seem to be. And at this stage of the economy, I know of a huge amount of American people from the 18-25 range who are dying to find ANY job no matter if it's minimum wage or not.. I personally know of many kids in the 18-20 range who haven't been able to work their FIRST job yet. A lot of the construction jobs around here are being eaten alive by illegal workers who may have years of experience in their craft and are still willing to work for minimum wage. Construction companies in the market today would rather hire them than a legal American kid with no experience.

What do you have to say to those kids Mikey? They are being denied the chance of even learning the craft of woodworking due to the abundance of illegal immigrants who have some sort of experience in an economy that is looking for cheap labor now more than ever..

***The instance I spoke of before, it was very common for a shop foreman to make anywhere from $20-$25 per hour. But every now and then you would end up in those companies who took a gamble that cheap labor would give them bigger profits and they got burned. Whether a company decides to lower their standards for quantity over quality, I WAS replaced by that ideal and the illegal workers I trained to carry out the defunct ideal that eventually tanked. One American job lost at the cost of illegal immigrants who had no legal means to be there in the first place. Had they not existed to work for such small wages, the plan doesn't exist either. What you're trying to say is "you weren't replaced as an expert". But I WAS. It was the assessment of the owners that the others were trained to be "expert enough" to carry out their plan, thus, get rid of the higher wage. Unfortunately for them their assessment was wrong, and the workers eventually jumped ship. By that time, unfinished projects, pending invoices, and high overhead had folded the company.

Being a good woodworker and running a shop are two different things. What the owners and the workers themselves failed to realize was how easy I can organize an operation, and make it look easy. Not everyone has that skill. While they did end up being descent custom woodworkers, they were never really all that organized at efficiently building $50,000 Kitchens. I was the only one who knew who was capable of doing the tasks I needed done at the time. They didn't even know themselves. I masterminded the building of the projects from beginning to end and handled the building of the most intricate aspects. I also was the one who knew who was best suited to order the products from. From the hard-ware, to the materials, parts for tools, and the wood, and who would get it there on time.

But the owners of the company were rarely there to see and understand that. And of course if you ask any illegal immigrant whether they can perform to the task, the answer is always "YES". Whether they think they can or not. You have to watch them very carefully and understand when they really have no clue and are winging it.

The owners believed them when they said "YES". Therefore they thought they were "replacing an expert" with "good enough workers to get the job done enough to get paid" who were being paid minimum wage. They felt like they hit a jack-pot scenario. When I was let go, the newly appointed "good enough" workers were put on a "trial period" for a month and were only given a $0.25 raise. After which they would receive higher wages, which was all a ruse that never happened. After many months had gone by and no raise was ever given for various excuses, the crew started to lose interest. How do I know this Mikey?? Because the head of the crew was calling me up asking if there were any openings where I was working at the time. The crew eventually went somewhere else. I think a couple actually went back to Mexico for a while. But the owners were looking for a spike in profit, they decided to sacrifice quality for quantity, developed a poor reputation, and they were dangling a carrot in front of the illegal crew until they ALL LEFT AT ONCE, and the plan backfired, and the company couldn't recover. They were left with too many unfinished projects and had to return down-payments. But NONE of this happens without the enticing presence of exploiting the illegal immigrants by the owners.

Mikey, it's not like I hated the people I trained or worked with. I understood that they were looking for a better life. But by no means should I ever be considered a "moron" for losing my job to illegal immigrants. In a lot of cases it's not the fault of the average American worker, but greedy unethical owners and CEOs. And occaisionally, as I mentioned before, hostage mentalities of the illegal immigrants themselves. Do you see what the very presence can create?

I do have a right to be angry at illegal immigrants for being here. They don't have the right to side-step the legal means for citizenship. And that goes for ANY illegal immigrant from any part of the world. We have a legal process, and it should be respected to uphold our sovereignty, security as a nation, and our economic stability. They don't have a legal right above US citizens to work, and yet they ignore every aspect of those laws without hesitation. I can either choose to be sympathetic or angry. Sometimes I'm a little of both. It's hard to look at a good hearted honest illegal immigrant in the eyes and tell them that you wish they would just go back to where they came from, knowing that they're just looking for a better life. But at the same time, I've seen the adverse effects of what it does to our own brothers and sisters, and I'm sorry if I care for their well being just a little bit more.

As a US citizen, I do have a right to be angry toward purposeful illegal entry and employment. By side-stepping the legal process, they are delaying the legal process for someone else. And in a lot of cases, filling up jobs that our own Americans badly need right now.



So there you go.. That's enough for now. I really need to get going on other things. I'm way behind.

Crip,

We are a nation of immigrants. My name "Maxim" is French, and comes from my Father's French Canadian ancestry. It is a beautiful thing being considered the "melting pot" of the world, but it is also important to have a shared language and some shared values, or we become divided over the most fundamental of things that have previously united us.

An article on the importance of a shared language for a nation:

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97apr/english.htm

How quickly we anger, especially for spiritually enlighted souls...

I'm sorry.. Call me crazy. But this has been one of the best threads to come up in a while.

In the words of Rod Tidwell- " You think we're arguing, and I think we're finally talking!"

Really, seriously...

Are the members of this site going to constipate the forum with threads like this? Go find a Jesus site to push your religious beliefs.

As far as man, myth, or legend; Father or phanton; Goddess or God; no deity whatsoever -- we're all composed of the same stuff that filled the universe upon formation. Whether created, or formed from colliding dust and debris. There are no new air molecules (for example) from the time of formation of the universe. We are breathing all of the same ones. There are no new atoms that have formed. In fact, scientifically speaking, there is nothing new in the universe. Whatever "force" is driving this universe, therefore, is in each and every one of us, since there is nothing new. We are made of the same "stuff" as Moses, Jesus, Socrates, Napolean, Caesar, etc (and breathing the same air as well).

What is the point in arguing a belief? By the very definition, you cannot prove a spiritual belief. It is not a factual thing, it is a spiritual thing. Who is anyone here to tell anyone else they are wrong for what they believe? A whole spiritual movement's entire spiritual existance is based on book that wasn't even published in its entirety. The bible is missing more than half of the tablets and transcripts that it should have if you want to have a complete work to reference. The authors of the books were not even around to account for the actual events that are portrayed in the bible. These are written accounts of stories passed down through generations of believers. Who's to say if half of the events actually happened, or if any of the material is true? It is a belief.

Craig - I ain't angry. I am not trying to hurt you.

For you to say that I spit on God is actually kinda funny to me, & shows how little you know about what you speak. I'm sorry, man, but when you're funny I'm gonna laugh.

For you to tell me to grow up is the pot calling the kettle black.

How long you wanna keep this up?

I didn't ask you to look that sh*t up, & for you to THINK that I'd be interested only shows how into YOU that you are. I thought I'd made it pretty clear in my last post that I don't care. Get over your bad self, & realize that there are a great many of us out here in the real that don't give a crap about your ramblings. It's in your head, man, not mine, & not in a great many others.

GET HELP

I doubt you'll ever be either happy or healthy until you do.

As far as your spirituality, that isn't for me to judge, bub. That's quite true. All I know about it is what you show me. So far, I'm not impressed enough to be interested enough to investigate further. Does that spell it out for you now?

Why don't you go work on YOU, Craig, & leave the rest of us to work things out for ourselves, cuz it's pretty obvious you ain't no saviour either o/l or off.

GET HELP

I'm sorry.. Call me crazy. But this has been one of the best threads to come up in a while.

In the words of Rod Tidwell- " You think we're arguing, and I think we're finally talking!"

You know Shredd, that's a great post!!