General Music Chat

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Craig, I am a student of the bible and the bible is a joke. Do you really believe in the god of the bible? I'd love to debate him. The god of slavery and female abuse you worship and I don't get along. Think of it as science fiction if you like, hell, scientologists believe aliens had a war and deposited their dna here to restart their race. My beliefs are science fiction!?! I love how you jesus freaks always assume you're correct. Well, got news for you...less people worldwide believe the hooey of jesus and christianity than muslim faith. Whos right? U all believe strongly that you are. I don't believe i am right, I see for myself and my church doesn't expect you to believe on faith. we can show you for yourself, what you beleive can be seen with not only your own eyes, but everyone else who follows the method. But if you want to continue to worship a slave monger (1 Timothy 6:1-3) I would be glad to have that debate with you. You who must abide by the laws of a god who seems to love money over all else (leviticus 27:30) and dont be late on your payments cause he charges interest (leviticus 27:31). And lest we forget that god wants you to suffer (1 Peter 2:20)...not for the bad stuff you do, that is expected, but for the good too. According to 1 peter 2:20 only the beatings you received for your righteous acts count.

And lets get the record straight, if you believe in the god of the bible, then you should automatically be FOR legalization of marijuana. As early as Genesis 1:11 did god create marijuana and by Genesis 1:29 gave it to us for our use.

But your bible does talk about the current government in the US (Psalm 35:20)

You guys can continue to go to your churches and dress up and pray (Matthew 6:5) and do your charitable deeds (Matthew 6:2) all the while convinced of your righteousness because you worship a god of peace right? (Luke 12:49)

Now that you've actually read a little of your bible, are you ready to debate me? You have my forum address

WOW!! Go get 'em Rev!!

Mike,

btw... Regarding alot of Old Testament rules and admonitions, you have to realize a couple of things:

1) Spiritual inspiration is still filtered through IMPERFECT humans, even when God is sending the message Himself. They could be taking things to an extreme in such situations.

2) In darker times, it may have been NECESSARY to be excessive in punishments, even unto death, for the people to change. There are MANY examples in the past, of people sacrificing THEIR OWN CHILDREN, bashing their heads against rocks and such, for whatever superstitions they had. And think about it... If God had to actually TELL the people, to actually GIVE RULES to them, that they should not... Sleep with their own mothers. Sleep with their sisters... Sleep with animals, etc... You can be sure that THIS WAS GOING ON. You are placing modern sensibilities on a wicked and cruel time period, where men slept with whom they chose, relative or not, even animals. For the salvation of humanity as a whole, to avoid them destroying themselves through such evil practices, it may have been necessary in another time, to be TOUGH AS HELL, to get the people to change. While ultimately, over thousands of years, it has brought us to where we are today, where EVERYONE takes for granted that INCEST is wrong, that BEASTIALITY is wrong, that HUMAN SACRIFICE is wrong. Do you see what I mean?

Just as one may have to be more strict and severe with a child, than a thinking mature adult, so too, has humanity gone through a growth process, from selfish childishness to maturity. Humanity is like a growing organism, and God has had to deal with it, on the level it was at the time.

However, whether prophets confused the message or not, or whether God was simply dealing as harshly as necessary, at the time or not, whatever confusion someone may find from the Old Testament, is certainly cleared up in the New Testament, where you will NOT find rules condoning stoning people to death, or putting disobedient children to death, or any of the like. Jesus example speaks for itself. Turn the other cheek. Forgive everyone. Love even those who despise you.

I would appreciate it very much, if you would not use biased arguments, simply to disprove a book, that more than any other, has helped foster love and civility in our world.

I think what I shared above is a fair reasoning of why punishments could have been harsher in times past. And this doesn't mean an inspired book, even when parts of it no longer apply to modern thinking, should be split in half or disregarded. It is part of humanity's spiritual history of growth. To discard the past, even when offensive to modern sensibilties, is a little like discarding Mark Twain's "Tom Sawyer" because it was written in a different time, and includes use of the "N" word. It is magnificent literature. To throw it all away because it was from another time, is a mistake. Modern people can UNDERSTAND that Mark Twain's book was written in a different time, and make exceptions for it, putting things in their proper perspective.

The Bible TRULY is inspired of God, and has been a tool for the world's healing, not it's destruction. People can ALWAYS use a "tool" improperly, but it is not the fault of the tool itself, it is the fault of the sinner who uses it for ill purposes.

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Look, I'm not a Christian. Its my choice -- one of the great things about living in America. I'm not saying that anyone in this forum is wrong for believing what they believe, but having been a Christian in the past and really reading the bible and studying it, I have to agree with Rev on some of his points. Not all, but some.

I do believe that a god (meaning some kind of supreme being) created everything in the universe to be beneficial to all life. Why wouldn't that include substances from nature that are utilized in their natural, unprocess form? We eat fruits, veggies, and herbs from the earth, utilize the flesh and skins of animals for food, clothing, and shelther (yes, shelter -- teepees were made of skins), and we use various rocks, gems, woods, metals, and other natural materials in our everyday lives. I agree that there are passages in the bible that are contredictory, but it would be useless for me to argue those points any further. Rev Mike has done well enough doing that, and arguing that one "belief" is more true than another is futile. After all, beliefs are just that. I'm not "wrong" for not believing in Christianity, and you're not "wrong" for believing in it.

Back to the main subject of this thread, I am absolutely FOR the legalization of marijuana, and I absolutely agree that penalties for crimes committed while under the influence should be more heavily punished, just like involuntary manslaughter carries a heavier punishment when the driver is intoxicated with alcohol. Irresponsibility with marijuana will be punished, and responsible use, just like responsible use of alcohol, would be recreational.

Along with legalizaion, I think the fed's should tax the pants off marijuana and use these taxes to payoff the national debt and stock a national surplus. The taxes from this can also better fund our schools and bring American education back up to the standards of the rest of the planet. There would also need to be regulations in place like with tobacco and alcohol, including a minimum age to purchase/use. Less crime, more prepared future generations, and an uber case of the munchies... Well, America already has the uber munchies, huh?!

I believe that if it harms no one or yourself, do as you may. My belief, therefore, includes taking responsibility for one's actions.

I agree with much of what you said PocketGrooves.

Look, I'm not a Christian. Its my choice -- one of the great things about living in America. I'm not saying that anyone in this forum is wrong for believing what they believe, but having been a Christian in the past and really reading the bible and studying it, I have to agree with Rev on some of his points. Not all, but some.

I do believe that a god (meaning some kind of supreme being) created everything in the universe to be beneficial to all life. Why wouldn't that include substances from nature that are utilized in their natural, unprocess form? We eat fruits, veggies, and herbs from the earth, utilize the flesh and skins of animals for food, clothing, and shelther (yes, shelter -- teepees were made of skins), and we use various rocks, gems, woods, metals, and other natural materials in our everyday lives. I agree that there are passages in the bible that are contredictory, but it would be useless for me to argue those points any further. Rev Mike has done well enough doing that, and arguing that one "belief" is more true than another is futile. After all, beliefs are just that. I'm not "wrong" for not believing in Christianity, and you're not "wrong" for believing in it.

Back to the main subject of this thread, I am absolutely FOR the legalization of marijuana, and I absolutely agree that penalties for crimes committed while under the influence should be more heavily punished, just like involuntary manslaughter carries a heavier punishment when the driver is intoxicated with alcohol. Irresponsibility with marijuana will be punished, and responsible use, just like responsible use of alcohol, would be recreational.

Along with legalizaion, I think the fed's should tax the pants off marijuana and use these taxes to payoff the national debt and stock a national surplus. The taxes from this can also better fund our schools and bring American education back up to the standards of the rest of the planet. There would also need to be regulations in place like with tobacco and alcohol, including a minimum age to purchase/use. Less crime, more prepared future generations, and an uber case of the munchies... Well, America already has the uber munchies, huh?!

I believe that if it harms no one or yourself, do as you may. My belief, therefore, includes taking responsibility for one's actions.

I agree with this statement. Each of us has every right to believe whatever we want, debate is healthy however and I have enjoyed the debate with craig, but these guys are right, we should take this back to a private place or at least a forum dedicated to it. This forum is about marijuana legalization.

The government claims that the marijuana industry is a 100 billion dollar industry on its own, well, as someone who knows the pricing structure, believe me, that is alot of tax, tax because of its illegality. Pay a premium to those who risk incarceration. Imagine what the government could do with all that tax revenue?!?! Pay for Obama's healthcare reform...just with pot! And pot users are used to paying the high tax so when the high tax is applied to the legal stuff that people will be able to grow better cause they don't have to hide it (after paying heavy licensing fees) will produce better product for the same price. Government gets 100 billion in new revenue without raising taxes, and we get better marijuana. Its win win.

I think though I have not voted on it legalizing it might help matters some? Perhaps I am wrong, who really knows?

Is it as bad as smoking? Of course. Anything you put down your windpipe that does not belong there will do you harm. (Cough!)

I'm a beer boy so I won't vote on it.

If you are a drinker, than you must support the less dangerous marijuana?

Mike,

I am pleased that you are pursuing a spiritual path, but if you were where you could be, you would have been told about me. I have been testified about, by psychics (including one who is used by police agencies for crimes they have no leads on) by fervent Christians who have had visions and been told things in prayer, and a Prince of Zaire, to name a few. People here think I am whacky enough as it is, but if I shared all the signs that accompanied my birth and throughout my life, the personal experiences I have had with God, angels and the deceased... they'd have me committed.

Perhaps one day I'll take that risk.

But not today.

For now, you'll have to consult your "council of elders" about me.

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Others have claimed what you claim, if you are claiming to be the one I think you are, you would know the message; validate yourself. Do not post it here, message me privately.

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That's why we love you Chippy!! No, not in that way... Not that there's anything wrong with that (remember that episode of Seinfeld?).

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Others have claimed what you claim, if you are claiming to be the one I think you are

A messiah?

No Mike.

The world has seen enough "messiahs"

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Mike,

I was going to post some of this stuff, in another thread, but some are getting offended at discussions they don't like personally, so maybe we can discuss our spiritual related topics here for now, and keep it in a single thread, and that way, people who think they have nothing to learn spiritually, can avoid this thread, and continue living life in order to keep their physical bodies alive, while they wait to die.

That said...

I have some things to share with you, and hopefully, TEACH you, and I think your heart may be such, that you would consider them seriously, and you may find them useful. And personally, I NEVER FORGET, that ANYONE in this world, may have something to teach me as well. So I listen to EVERYONE and keep my heart open to truth WHEREVER I find it.

As a precursor...

Sans' quoting of Jesus statement about "Casting pearls before swine" is appropriate sometimes. Everyone is clear enough about the meaning of that statement, that a pig, an animal that was considered (and still is) unclean by many, cannot appreciate the worth of things of great value, as typified by the pearls.

But this is not merely about something "having" great value, and the potential recipient, being in a state that prohibits them from recognizing that value. What sometimes gets lost, even by people who USE that statement. Is that to obtain things of great value, a GREAT PRICE had to be paid. For physical things of value, the price is usually monetary. For spiritual things of great value, the cost is FAR MORE.

Jesus admonition was for his followers to NOT waste their time on those who are so self-absorbed, that they would not recognize the value of the spiritual truths he brought, and what they represented, no matter how long you talked to them, no matter how much you poured your heart out to them. The people that "hear" and "understand" are those who are READY to hear and understand. These people are usually NOT self-absorbed, and they are NOT so arrogant as to believe they have nothing more to learn from others. Usually, they have ALREADY paid some price themselves, looking for answers, or paid some price, to put their hearts in a place, where they are ready to receive great truths.

I have paid an enormous price for the truths I have been given.

I have walked with God, I have served Him, I have prayed in tears to the point of soaking my clothes with them. I have suffered, and suffered, and suffered, and I have not sought revenge on my abusers. I have had a deep and profound love for others, and for the world, for as long as I have memories in life. If my soul were ever put on trial, there are hundreds, there are thousands, of lives who would come forward in my defense, though I knew some for only a moment, and have not seen them in decades.

Consider this, a small part of my spiritual resume. Offered here, so that as I share some of these things over the next days, it puts a little weight on the things shared. That they may be far deeper than anyone realizes at first glance. That they are timeless truths. That in some cases, they answer questions that the greatest of theologians throughout the centuries could not solve themselves.

That they are pearls.

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who said anything about a messiah? I simply think you seem to be claiming to be a false one. No messiah is coming. The day of reckoning is upon us in just a few short years. Saving yourself from it is a fruitless pursuit. Being prepared for it is all I can offer anyone. I can show you the tools and you can use them or not. It will not change the day of reckoning. It has always been coming, and its too late to change the nature of humanity. Hypocrites will cling to their self serving beliefs until the very last day. This earth will reject our infestation and destruction and it will protect itself, and in the great alignment, will once again wipe the slate clean.

Anyone who believes this world is only 5 thousand years old is insane. Perhaps 5000 human civilizations may have come and gone, but this earth spans millenia millenia. Our generation of humans have had 26000 years since the last alignment to get it right, but once again greed has taken over and earth must protect itself before our impact becomes permanent.

Funny how in protecting itself from us, it will make a complete transformation, but if we had only made a small transformation, it wouldn't be necessary. Many have come to try to save humanity with messages of hope and only watched as greed and arrogance turned their words into reasons to kill each other. All animals kill to protect or survive, but only the human animal kills out of greed.

whatever it is you think you claim to be, craig, i don't sense that you are the dark energy that will begin the destruction, so if you don't want to be enlightened, that is your choice, it is the choice of all. Anyone who does should contact me. Believe what you will, disbelieve me and call me crazy, many have...but many have listened, and tried it for themself. Once they do, I don't need to tell them any more. Whatever your choice, I encourage all to keep your "soul" unstained, do no harm, and when the day of reckoning arrives, you will be fine.