General Music Chat

Eh...I hear that most of us would have prob's in France, anyway...cuz they only allow you to work 35 hrs a week...sounds horrible, don't it?

Be OK as long as they dont count the BAND as work !

CHIPPY,

I am VERY fascinated by Egyptian culture and history. I am interested in all ancient cultures really, but Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, etc... are among my favorites. I am also fascinated by ancient astronomy, as displayed in Stonehenge, the Mayan Calendar and many others.


SANS,

I have no idea how this should be implemented. But comparing America to another country, while popular, is not realistic. France has NOWHERE NEAR the economic might as we do. Nor does Canada or any other countries with Universal Health Care.

Now, let's throw the argument back...

How is it that countries with NOWHERE NEAR the economic power and wealth of our nation, can find a way to provide health care for ALL their citizens? If it can be provided in countries like that, then how much more capably could it be achieved here?

Just because France pays it's doctors 50K to 100K per year, does not mean that is what they would make here. And once again, if there was an option to allow private health care, with government insurance filling the gaps, then it is entirely possible that doctor's pay would remain stable.

For me you hit the nail on the head with the whole economic power thing.
Free interprise though difficult due to it's cyclical nature (when left the hell alone) is the generator of said economic power.
The government does not produce wealth, therefore all they can do is bleed away wealth and with it economic power.
Our government should stick with constitutional rolls they swear to defend. We the people should not re-elect and then prosecute, anyone whom would usurp that authority.

Free interprise though difficult due to it's cyclical nature (when left the hell alone) is the generator of said economic power.

Yea "free enterprise" left the "Hell alone" works real good ....

ENRON
Worldcom
GM
Chrysler
AIG
Lehman
City Bank
BoA

God the list goes on a on ... trillions of dollars lost to share holders and or goverment ... sign me up for more of that.

You site all corporations whom are under restriction by government agency or supportedby those same governments for the purpose of greed.
Your argument against true free interprise where competition is the only regulating factor is totally unfounded in fact.

Physicians in France average between (the equivelent of) $50K- $100K an year. And their system is still going broke.

Just a little food for thought.
How many American physicians would work for $50K a year I wonder?

a lot of people seem to think that switching to national healthcare would cause a tax increase equal to or greater than the current healthcare premiums (and COPPAYS) that the average person pays.

Simple truth is that medicare, which through taxes, covers the most burdensome segment of population, is still equally, if not more effective, as most private insurances are. Imagine how effective it will be when the majority of payers are from the healthier segment of the population.

It's factually impossible and an extremely dishonest tactic to argue otherwise.

You site all corporations whom are under restriction by government agency or supportedby those same governments for the purpose of greed.
Your argument against true free interprise where competition is the only regulating factor is totally unfounded in fact.

So, by your definition of a "true" free market place, greed wouldn't factor in, right? I mean, that's a systemic problem, not a people problem, right?

You site all corporations whom are under restriction by government agency or supportedby those same governments for the purpose of greed.
Your argument against true free interprise where competition is the only regulating factor is totally unfounded in fact.

So, by your definition of a "true" free market place, greed wouldn't factor in, right? I mean, that's a systemic problem, not a people problem, right?

Yea Colors ... it's called "socialized capitalism" we bail them out and they get to keep all the profits ....

So you think I dont understand greed?
Oh well, some people just can not grasp a concept.

Sans,

I'm with you on where prosperity comes from. The majority of jobs in our nation are created by SMALL businesses. Small business, has always been the stepping stone for entrepeneurs to move up in the world. I also agree with you that over-regulation is harmful to the success and growth of businesses. But Prevost is also right, that regulation is necessary, because many, if not most, huge businesses have done GREAT evils for the sake of profits, when allowed to get away with it. Toxic waste that has killed people, even children. Whole towns that have become sick. Deceitful accounting that has destroyed people's life savings. Etc...

What would probably help in finding a compromise on this, as has been suggested with doctors, same with businesses... LEGAL REFORMS! Putting a company out of business altogether because of a single lawsuit is not really ideal.

Is it England where the loser of a lawsuit pays the legal fees for both parties?

But Healthcare....

Why couldn't the government usurp the role of INSURER? In effect that's what Medicaid is. Find me an old person who wants to give up their Medicaid. Why couldn't it work for Healthcare in general? What role does an insurer provide really? Making a profit. But they don't PRODUCE anything, and you can't really compare it to car insurance, because the car insurer doesn't have all these restrictions and limitations that HMO's do. It just seems like health insurance is a racket, a middle man. Why not cut that out, through the government, which would NOT be for profit?

People should still be able to choose which doctor they want, etc...

Why would it be so different than current health insurance, other than having more revenue to work with?

Exactly, Craig. Take the profit factor out for investors. We should all of us have an equal investment in the health of our citizens, to some extent. A LIMITED extent, to be sure. The gov't should not get into the biz of preventative medicine to the extent that they rule every aspect of your life in the name of national economic security...LOL...although that is yet another fear that some may have (thus the death camp rumors).

But take the investor out of the health care equation, & you remove the factor of greed. Unfortunately, this probably needs to be done across the board, from the hospital to the Dr office to the pharmaceutical co to the pharmacy, to varying degrees.

At present, WalMart is truly trying to eliminate their competition by selling generic drugs at $4 a pop for a month's worth, & $10 for 3 month's worth, in this area. (Perhaps this is nationwide, I dunno.) They've been bandying about the idea of installing actual Dr's offices in their stores around here. Can you imagine what will happen if WalMart, or even that same type of corporate profit-based mentality, takes over all of our health care, from the initial Dr visit to the testing to the hospitalization to the medication? Now THAT's scary! But it is also, in essence, exactly what we have. It just isn't all the same company.

The very LAST thing we need is for an even bigger & more successful corp to handle our care. By removing the investors' profit margin from this absolute necessity, we can & should make it available to all of our ppl, equally. If we contend that we are all created equal, we should all be treated equally to maintain that creation - yes, we should even be treated as well as our prisoners!

However, our leaders are thinking of going in a different direction - forcing us to buy ins. Will I be jailed if I fail or refuse to comply?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32479506/ns ... re_reform/

How many American physicians would work for $50K a year I wonder?

Just the ones doing it for the right reasons.

Oh, and I think doctors should be paid an hourly wage that would bring them say, 100K a year (just off the top of my head) for working 40 hours a week. If they put in overtime, they should be paid more. My mom has a doctor appointment once a month with a certain doctor. His office called and canceled her appointment for next month. Medicare will still be paying him for it, even though he canceled. It's happened that way every time so far. How can that be right?

The regulation of harmfull practice in business is just as necessary as the rule of law is in the lives of individuals.
Equally so it has nothing to do with the concept of free enterprise.
Surely some of you gentlemen have some education in government and economics to fall back on when I speak of "concept" of free enterprise?
Remember the old story bout the Irish immigant whom when he got off the boat in NY harbor, the first thing he did was punch a fellow in the schnoz because he was free. The cop told him your freedom ended where his nose started.
That being said regulation especially when international trade is considered has done more to promote specific corporations than foster the concept of free interprise.
I deal with MEDICARE / MEDICAIDE daily.
On both the application of care and billing sides.
This is worst example of a care delivery system anyone can imagine.
It simply does not work, and will be totally bankrupt very soon in part due to the siphoning off of funds for other social programs, but I feel quite sure the millions of mansions built in the gated communities by corrupt business owners has much to do with it as well.
The people whom depend on MEDICARE diserve better.
They may be happy with their $10.00 perscription, but the administrative cost of $10,000 for that same perscription is unsustainale by our society as a whole.