Chippy wrote:
I'd rather God be involved with making water appear for people where there is none, Warmth enough when it is really cold for someone, the signed cross upon ones chest at some ones side when they are ill, not before taking a kick in a football game.
Well, I certainly understand your position. And I think you make a good point. Prayer for the welfare of others, is certainly more serious than praying for the outcome of a football game. I'm not even sure that it is reasonable to pray for one side or another to win a GAME. But to be fair, if someone believes God should be a central part of their lives, then it is not wrong to have the heart to include God in EVERY aspect of one's life... even games. Perhaps a better prayer is "God, help me to do my best in this competition today, and to show good character in all my actions on the field. And please protect both teams in health and safety."
Chippy wrote:Just like PolitRockets I try to steer clear of Religion too.
Me too!

Chippy wrote:I only have to open a paper to see man killing man in the name of some prophet or God.
Oops... lost me on this one. I was kind of with you on the first two!
But this last one will never be a reasonable argument intellectually, as it's purpose is biased and is not about facts or logic. The proof of this, is that no one applies this "standard" to any other subject, only God or religion.
For example...
Jilted lovers kill their former partners all the time. Is anyone saying that this is the fault of "love"? Or do they place blame on the INDIVIDUAL for his actions? The individual of course.
Parents get ejected and even arrested, for their unsportsmanlike and even criminal conduct at their child's soccer games. Is this the fault of soccer, or is the INDIVIDUAL responsible for his own actions?
Suicides increase dramatically around Christmas time. Is this the fault of a Holiday? Should Christmas be illegal? Or this an issue related to whatever an individual is dealing with themselves?
And...
Not that you made this point, but MANY do... Blaming God for everything bad that happens in life. I see this all the time. In fact, I commented someone's status message on my MySpace friend's list the other day, because some guy left a status update that said:
"My friend has a brain tumor. He is a good person. What kind of God would allow this? There is no God!"
I commented this message with...
"No offense intended, but can I ask... How are you sure this was God's doing? How are you sure God is personally responsible for this? Imagine if you had a close friend, and you decided that it must have been this friend who was responsible for doing something that hurt you. So you turned your back on this friend and never spoke with them again. Decades passed, and then you discover that it actually WAS NOT your friend who was responsible for the infraction, and it turned out that you blamed someone who was actually innocent, and lost decades of relationship with that person as a result. Wouldn't that be tragic? When you are going to end a relationship over something, it is pretty important to be really, really sure, you are placing blame in the right place. Just something to think about."
And Chippy, not that this is your heart, but...
It's been my experience, that people are far more quick to BLAME God when things don't seem to be going the way they believe they should. And far less quick to THANK God for when things do seem to be going the way they want them to. Not only that, but interestingly, VERY OFTEN the same people who BLAME GOD for the bad things in their own lives, then thank THEMSELVES and praise THEMSELVES when they realize good things in their lives. In other words... If some success comes to my life, then I AM RESPONSIBLE, but if some failure comes to my life, then GOD IS RESPONSIBLE!
Somehow, for many people, God seems to be nothing more than some kind of "bad luck charm" who is available merely to be blamed for anything unfortunate that occurs.
In an EXTREMELY limited way, I can personally understand how it feels to give so much to someone, out of love and compassion, and with the best of motives, only to have that same person turn on me and then blame me for his own actions.
The bad apple in my former band is a prime example. This guy in essence stole the band I formed, and the name of the band that I had created. He actually tried to claim, that trademarking the band name in his own personal name alone, and doing so behind my back, was somehow in the best interest of the entire band!
He had forgotten...
I hired this guy moments after his first audition. I know this shocked him at the time, because he didn't play very well at that audition. But I saw enough to know that he was competent, and I knew he was playing on music (my originals) that he didn't know, and after learning the songs would be much better. What I saw, was that he enjoyed the songs very much, and was getting into the music. OK, so, he didn't play amazingly. He felt the music... the rest would come. I hired him. He was so excited. His MySpace page had claimed that he was not able to get out of the "garage" in over 8 years time.
Not only did he get out of the garage with me, but I took this band from the practice room, to playing gigs in 3 states, a finished demo from the studio, that eventually was played on 5 different radio stations, two of which we were interviewed on, as well as them playing the demos on air. Imagine... he had not been able to get onstage with a band in 8 years time, and in the first 6 months with me, he was sitting in a radio station being interviewed live, on air, to many thousands of people.
He also forgot...
When I found out that his forte was Southern Rock, and that was what he played best, I made that our primary genre. Yes, I actually centered our entire genre around Southern Rock to minimize his weaknesses and help him shine better.
Later I found out that his son was residing in Illinois, whereas we were in Gerogia. The boy's mom had died, and he was being raised by some close friends of hers. The father, my guitarist, had decided that they could provide for his son better, financially, than he could, so he let them raise his son, and he visited him every few years. I found out that he had not seen his son in 4 years or something, and I told him he should go visit his son. He said that he would love to see his son, but his car would never make that trip. I told him I would drive him up there. He said "To Illinois? You're gonna drive me all the way to Illinois and back, just so I can see my son?" - I said... "Sure I will." - And he teared up a little, and said that none of his "so-called" friends, that he had known for many years, had ever offered such a thing, and here I was, he said, even though we had known each other for only a matter of months, offering to drive him from Georgia to Illinois and back, to see his son. He said he was very moved by the gesture.
Well, there are dozens of examples of my generosity toward this guy, and yet HE IS THE ONE, that stole everything I worked 8 hours a day for.
And he blames.... ME!!!
I wonder just how often God does the same thing. Gives and gives and gives again, only to have the objects of His love, turn their hearts against Him and then blame Him for their separation?
I know how painful it is to endure this, even once. He effectively endures it millions and millions of times over, and continues to love, in spite of it.
Wow!
To have a heart like that...
Wow!