General Music Chat

ZITO -can you think of any jazz musicians that dressed wild? I guess that lady singer was kinda out there... ella f, but she was just dressed classy for the most part. Perhaps jazz players have to dress in suits?

Not really. My dad was a musician and his uniform was a Black Tux. That's is when he was playing gigs. He played in big bands. He also did seesion work.

When I do a jazz gig I usually wear black dress pants, black shirt and shoes. Some places you can dress casual and some you can't. If I'm playing with a bar band I'll dress casual.

Cheers,
Matt

Lots of jazz musicians dress wild. Try looking up some players that aren't in "the new real book." There's some avant gard fusion players out there that are really from mars...and dress as such.

feel free to name one so I can look them up... I don't doubt that they exist, I just don't think it is the norm. It certainly wasn't for every contemporary or late great I can think of: count basie, miles davis, armstrong, metheney, pass, bela fleck, branford marsalis, tito puente, django reinhardt, al dimeola, george benson... but I'm not an expert on jazz either. I guess there is that genre 'trance jazz' but that doesn't really qualify as jazz for me. The thing that puts it in the jazz catagory is the deep melodic and harmonic thought that goes into key modulation and chord choice/extension, and I just don't hear that in the trippy jazz catagory.

"I might criticize or like someones attire at the time but it would not change my mind about the music I went to hear." that's just what I want to hear. Nothing wrong with it as long as it is SECONDARY TO THE MUSIC. Some of my fav artists dressed silly: srv wore that stupid poncho with the feather hat and all... but you never got the impression he was doing it cause he thought he had to. If you can bring it like SRV you have my permission to dress any way you want! Cause the music takes yer attention off of anything else going on. If you are as good as les claypool feel free to where long johns and combat boots. But you don't have to dress up either... proven by blues travelor, bruce springsteen, tom waits, david bowie in his later career, elvis costello, johnnie cash, etc.

You named them for me.

Look at the flecktones for example...seriously go to their page at flecktones dot com. You know futureman wears some crazy stuff and he can sure bring it. On the front page is a picture of Bela wearing some kind of...Jimmy Hendrix jacket. Looks like something Eric Johnson would wear (oh wait that's another example.)

Miles Davis wore some shirts that were loud enough to stop traffic.

You mentioned Dimeola but not J Mclaughlin! There was some strange wardrobe choices. Big flowing white ...indian looking robe thingies. Just bizzarre.

Nomatter how good or bad your product is, success often depends on good marketing. That's just common business sense. Take my word for it and change out of that nasty looking sleeveless T muscle man.

As for SRV he experimented ALOT with his image. It took a while for him to strike on to that psychedelic cowboy look that we all know him for. He went thru the newsboy cap period with sport coats that had the sleeves rolled up on them, members only jackets, then there was the fidora period...looked like a blues brothers reject. He lacked alot of self confidence concerning his physical apearance because of his crooked nose, big gums and small teeth. He felt as though he had to cover himself up in alot of clothes. You can find out all about that stuff if you read "Stevie Ray Vaughan: Caught in the Crossfire" by Joe Nick Patoski and Bill Crawford.

I have it sitting right here in paperback.

Everyone is free to dress how they want...but some people dress terribly. The same is true of musicians and regular Joes. I have no issue with telling a non musician that he or she is dressed like a slob or looks haggard as a mud fence. So why hold musicians to any other standard?

I do not judge people based on their apearance, just as I do not judge people based on how clean they keep their yard. I will however judge their yard. Saying "his yard is full of trash...he must be trash" is judging people and that's wrong. Saying "his yard is full of trash...that needs picked up" is judging a yard. And that's fine. The same applies to personal apearance. I only wish people would have enough respect for their profession to dress like a professional.

So Bluesman25, SRV experimented with his image? I didn't know that. Did you get that from the book or is that an personal observation? I'm curious to know, seriously. There's a guy by the name of Billy Hector, a local, who does a lot of SRV's stuff, really good,too. He even has a similar look at times. I think it's interesting that you made this point about him cos I think some musicians need to do that. Maybe they do it cos they really don't know what image they want to put across or maybe they don't even want to have to think about it cos what's important to them is the playing . Maybe someone,depending on their level of entertainment, is telling them how to dress- I couldn't live with that.

Maybe they do it cos they really don't know what image they want to put across or maybe they don't even want to have to think about it cos what's important to them is the playing . Maybe someone,depending on their level of entertainment, is telling them how to dress- I couldn't live with that.

You're quite right. Its like pesonallity conflict. Most of us went thru it at some point in highschool or whenever trying to figure out exactly who we are. People are like creatures in the wild. We use our exteriors as both a means to attract a mate and at times protect ourselves (in terms of how we socialize and apear to others.)

You raised an interesting point also in that some of the artists or entertainers we ridicule for their over-polished image are actually dressed by a person or persons acting as a puppet master who measures success in the amount of money earned rather than personal expression. Take for example that chap from the partridge family. He's actually a tallented musician but was pretty much forced into the wholesome family oriented role (in both image and music) that made him a teen idol.

Well I guess nobody really twisted his arm ...

As for the stuff on SRV its pretty common knowledge. Stevie was a shy withdrawn self concious lad as oposed to his older brother Jimmy who was much more confident and self assured. Typical little brother syndrome. I'm not saying he dressed loud to make up for lost attention as a kid, only that it took him a while to sort of find himself in terms of image and self confidence. It also took him a while to discover his stellar singing voice.

"Looks like something Eric Johnson would wear" -I'm not sure eric qualifies as 'over the top'...and as far as the flecktons... admittedly I may be wrong on that one... I've only seen a few pics of them... and I've seen vic woo live sev times and no flashy dress there... but, I believe it is possible they may dress flashy.

"Miles Davis wore some shirts that were loud enough to stop traffic." -hardly qualifies as 'out there', but again I am not saying there aren't any...

"Take my word for it and change out of that nasty looking sleeveless T muscle man." -are you refering to me? A. my avatar is a an impromptu pic from a vacation to the grand canyon... B. I don't think anyone has ever called me a muscle man... expand up the picture and then have a laugh cause I am far from it... but I'll take that as a compliment.

"As for SRV he experimented ALOT with his image. It took a while for him to strike on to that psychedelic cowboy look that we all know him for. He went thru the newsboy cap period with sport coats that had the sleeves rolled up on them, members only jackets, then there was the fidora period..." -not sure what yer getting at... he dressed strange... no matter what the evolution of his dress...

"I have it sitting right here in paperback. " i am not going to read the book based on the idea that the last things I care about - about srv... are the things you can read in a book about his life or costume... I care about his music. Perhaps if it were a book about the music theory going on in his music...


"Everyone is free to dress how they want...but some people dress terribly. The same is true of musicians and regular Joes. I have no issue with telling a non musician that he or she is dressed like a slob or looks haggard as a mud fence. So why hold musicians to any other standard?" -your right. if I saw you walking down the street wearing what ziggi stardust wore I would laugh in my head... other's might not restrict it to their heads... either way we would most likely not take you seriously so why would we take you seriously on stage?

"I only wish people would have enough respect for their profession to dress like a professional" -no ones dressing dirty.... no ones dressing unprofessional... profesional... business... do they where a jimi hendricks feather scarf when they go to business meetings? Dress for sucksess would have us all in suits... I agree with that. You'd look sharp and people might take you more SERIOUSLY.

You named them for me.

they must'v changed up their website cause I see em wearing black tshirts... but I believe you when you say they dress funny. I wouldn't see anything wrong with that as long as they are MORE about the music than dress.

ps, I'd just like to point out that I like "buckethead" too. he dresses like a complete idiot and I think it's hilarious! but i'd listen to him with or w/o the bucket... it just doesn't matter to me.

I can explain the rudiments of srv's wonderful music in only a few pages...I wouldn't bother though because Wolf Marshall beat me to it. Books are best read for information that isn't entirely obvious. Try reading them. You should know that sometimes a person's music is reflective of their personallity and past experiences. Maybe that's not true of everyone but at least that's what I strive for in my music. Learning about a musician can sometimes help one's apreciation for their music. We all are fascinated by the relationship between an artist and their art. That's why we watch movies like the doors, walk the line, ray...the list goes on.

Clothing can also be a reflection of personallity. I'm glad to be in a place where people can dress however they wish withen the limits of decency. I'm sure some people feel that if one wishes to go about naked in the streets like Margot Kidder on a bad trip or Janet Jackson at the superbowl that its a perfectly acceptable expression of one's individuallity.

If I had a kid I wouldn't want it to see your dangling schlong though.

Once again I wish to say that I don't judge people because that's wrong. But I WILL judge your clothing and not hold back from saying that some poeple are dressed downright inapropriately.

Why don't we all just admit it? Being a musician offers us a fantastic opportunity. We unlike so many others are allowed and often expected by society to dress far beyond the measures of normalcy. Wouldn't you imagine that there are secretaries in Cleveland that wish they could dress like a pop singer? We have a free ticket to be as pretentious as we want to be. Do some people go over the top? Absolutely. I personally would have a hard time wearing anything on stage that I wouldn't wear off of it. I'm certainly not saying that you have to wear platform KISS boots but at least wear something nice enough to provide a decent presentation.

Wear something that informs your audience that you respect them enough to dress for the privledge of playing for them.

1) I can explain the rudiments of srv's wonderful music in only a few pages...I wouldn't bother though because Wolf Marshall beat me to it. Books are best read for information that isn't entirely obvious. Try reading them. You should know that sometimes a person's music is reflective of their personallity and past experiences. Maybe that's not true of everyone but at least that's what I strive for in my music. Learning about a musician can sometimes help one's apreciation for their music. We all are fascinated by the relationship between an artist and their art. That's why we watch movies like the doors, walk the line, ray...the list goes on.

Clothing can also be a reflection of personallity. I'm glad to be in a place where people can dress however they wish withen the limits of decency. I'm sure some people feel that if one wishes to go about naked in the streets like Margot Kidder on a bad trip or Janet Jackson at the superbowl that its a perfectly acceptable expression of one's individuallity.

If I had a kid I wouldn't want it to see your dangling schlong though.

Once again I wish to say that I don't judge people because that's wrong. But I WILL judge your clothing and not hold back from saying that some poeple are dressed downright inapropriately.

Why don't we all just admit it? Being a musician offers us a fantastic opportunity. We unlike so many others are allowed and often expected by society to dress far beyond the measures of normalcy. Wouldn't you imagine that there are secretaries in Cleveland that wish they could dress like a pop singer? We have a free ticket to be as pretentious as we want to be. Do some people go over the top? Absolutely. I personally would have a hard time wearing anything on stage that I wouldn't wear off of it. I'm certainly not saying that you have to wear platform KISS boots but at least wear something nice enough to provide a decent presentation.

Wear something that informs your audience that you respect them enough to dress for the privledge of playing for them.

1 - guess I hit a nerve... and I wasn't even aiming. I'm really sorry you feel so offended. for one lets keep it civil if you can. Is my dissagreement with you so offensive that you need to be vulgar?
"If I had a kid I wouldn't want it to see your dangl### schl##g though." "Books are best read for information that isn't entirely obvious."
Does the juxtaposition of these two sentences strike you as kind of not-belonging?
Are you asking me to compare libraries? Let's not play that game.

"That's why we watch movies like the doors, walk the line, ray...the list goes on." ...and have discussions on discussion boards where people often dissagree but that's ok cause we are all smart enough to keep it civil, right?

"Wear something that informs your audience that you respect them " -I'm your audience too are you respecting me?
I hope I can aspire to respect my audience, even in your case. I am trying... but I'm not gonna give it too much effort.

Hey Mike, Been busy all weekend. Will be back here at BandMix within the next week or two. Catch you later Brother....VB......Peace

Me? Offended?

hardly...

First off Mike I think there's been a bit of miscomunication. The vast majority of that wasn't pointed anywhere near you. I'm sorry that I wasn't more clear on who my comments were dirrected at. For that I apologise but actually only the first part of the first paragraph were comments directed at you. My message to you was that although there's no wrong reason to read a book, the most obvious purpose is to gain knowledge you couldn't pickup by other more convenient and obvious means...like listening to the actual music.

But now that you've opened that can of of worms...

Aparently that message was lost on you somehow because your ego driven paranoia leads you to believe everything I say is a putdown directed at you. But now that you mention it ... I ESPECIALLY wouldn't want my kid to see YOUR dangling schlong.

I havn't been seeking an argument with you. I didn't even bother to point out that you made the weird assumption that the book never discussed SRV from a musical perspective. How could it not?

You're my audience? What have you payed me lately? You DO understand the concept of being a professional musician right?

Oh ... and I'm ALWAYS ready to compare libraries. I'm positive however that their are much more insiteful discussions that the people here could be reading.

Now by all means let's demonstrate our maturity and return to this thread's intended topic. Life's too short to play the "last word" game.

"My message to you was that although there's no wrong reason to read a book, the most obvious purpose is to gain knowledge you couldn't pickup by other more convenient and obvious means...like listening to the actual music" so what yer sayin is reading the life story of a musician is more convenient than actually learning to play his stuff? - I think your fingers are lying.
"... I ESPECIALLY wouldn't want my kid to see YOUR dangling schlong." -wow you have kids... that scares the hell outta me.
"Now by all means let's demonstrate our maturity and return to this thread's intended topic. " -that is the only decent point you have made.

I still think dressing up is ok if it makes you happy. I think it can harm or help you depending on the circumstance. I think in some cases it has become more important than the music and I would point to "lipsinking in concert so that you can perform coreography" is eveidence of that. I think the better player you are the more likely you are to get away with dressing like an idiot. That's all. You can dissagree if you want... doesn't bother me at all. Have a nice day.