General Music Chat

1. If Canada's single-payer system is so god-awful, why have repeated Conservative governments at the provincial and national level in Canada never touched it? Canada is a democracy. If Canadians don't like their health care system, why haven't they gotten rid of it in 35 years? Since the system there is run by the separate provinces, many of which are very politically conservative, why has not one province ever tried to get rid of single-payer?

2. Why is rationing by income, as we do it here, better than rationing by need, as they do it in Canada?

3. Wouldn't single-payer mean that companies could no longer threaten working people with the loss of their health insurance? Why is this a bad idea?

4. The bigger the insurance pool, the better. So doesn't having a national pool, as with single-payer, make the most sense?

5. Why should we be allowing politicians who are taking money from the medical industry to write the new health care legislation?

6. How can the Congress be developing a health system reform scheme and not even invite experts from Canada down to explain their successful system?

7. If Medicare--a single-payer system here in America--is so popular with the elderly, how come it's no good for the rest of us?

8. Isn't it true that Medicare currently finances the most costly patient group--the elderly and infirm--so that extending it to the rest of the population--most of whom are young and healthy--would be much cheaper, per person?

9. The AMA, the Pharmaceutical Industry, and the Insurance Industry all bitterly opposed Medicare in 1964-5 when it was being debated in Congress and passed into law, with the right, led by Ronald Reagan, calling it creeping socialism. It became a life-saver for the elderly and didn't turn the US into a soviet republic. Why should we give a tinker's damn what those same three industry groups and the Republican right think of expanding single-payer now?

10. The executives of Canadian subsidiaries of US companies all support Canada's single-payer system, and even lobby collectively to have it expanded and better funded. Why does Congress listen to the executives of the parent companies here at home, and not invite those Canadian execs down to explain why they like single-payer?

1) Because we would revolt. The majority, by a large percentage, of Canadians like our health care ... it's the US propaganda machine the tell you otherwise.

2) Personaly I don't see any rationing. Yes, for some things there are wait times, but these wait time are being worked on and are coming down.

3) Yes

4) Yes, the bigger the pool the better. To add to the if you took all the profits the the health industry and put that into coverage for the people, think of how many ppl that wouls cover.

5) This pretty much sums it up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbWw23XwO5o&feature=popular

6) Your Health Industry wouldn't like that ... see 5

7) Propaganda?????

That's the way it works up here

9) I think the US is too hung up on the word socialism, when it come to HC. I wouldn't call Canada's HC socialism, yes the hospitals are owned by the goverment but are run as a non profit business, the doctors are contractors as are the pharmacist, all hospital support staff are unionized. All Canadians pay a monthly HC fee ... where is the socialism.

10) See 5

I not saying our HC is prefect. I doubt that any system in the world is. But we have affordable HC and drug prescriptions. We don't have to wait to get into see a doctor and most operations are done in a timely manner, depending on it's ugency. I know quite a few ppl in Canada that have had heart attacks, hip replacement, knee surgery ect. and have had nothing but great care, at no cost. My mom had Macular Degeneration, Osteoporosis for 15 years and Alzheimer’s for 10 years before she died last year and receive nothing but the best of care ... same as my dad, who died 2 years ago. So I don't get where all this information is coming from that says Canada's HC sucks ... because it doesn't.

As I've said before I know a lot of ppl in the US that are in Kramer's position and are one sickness away from bankruptcy ... I don't think that is right ... you work hard all your life and save your money to get ahead only to lose it all to your HC system in the last years your of life ... sorry that doen't sound like a very caring country.

I would NEVER trade Canada's HC system for the US model .... NEVER

Ron

I would NEVER trade Canada's HC system for the US model .... NEVER

Ron

There are a lot of people abroad who would agree with you:

http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23WeLoveTheNHS


It seems sad to me, that in the year 2009, we (America) can't do health care better than we're doing it now.

I think people in general, but especially in the U.S., undervalue intelligence way too much, and overvalue traits like athleticism and musical ability.

Until we, as a society, start to value intelligence and education, we're going to continue to live in a primitive, hostile, ignorant world full of malcontents breeding hate and fear. And we're going to have a hard time solving the world's problems that way.

Neither does one's college standing, when it comes to the everyday trials of leadership.

Leadership is a different issue from problem solving.

On the contrary, CF. We overvalue intelligence (while we undervalue education - I'll give you that one), & claim genetics as its source, while we ignore the far more valuable EQ scale indicators (EQ = Emotional Quotient). A person less liable to react in a knee-jerk fashion, or to rely too heavilly on their inherited attributes, will be a better leader, & less likely to perform the quick fix, while seeking an actual solution to a given problem.

For a LEADER, leadership attributes are exactly what we need for the job. We don't need a health or social sciences or economics expert to lead us, but our leaders need them to explain what needs doing in their area. I do not expect a president to have all of the solutions. I DO expect him to work with the experts of various fields, to make good decisions based on info from those experts (NOT croneys, as GWB surrounded himself with), & to begin the process of leading congress to write the best ideas into law.

The nuts & bolts of it all should be worked out in committee, in conjunction with the pres, not BY him. Cabinet members should prolly have the "higher IQ's" while the pres should have the highest EQ, to choose the right paths, to find the best ways to implement the strategies developed in comittee.

The problem-solving that IS done by him are the requisite skills of any leader. GWB was extremely weak in these areas, as we've seen.

Obama lies or contradicts himself everytime he opens his mouth.
He admits he has not even read the healthcare reform bill.
Leader?
A dictator is not a leader.
That is all he is, and all he ever wants to be.

Obama lies or contradicts himself everytime he opens his mouth.
He admits he has not even read the healthcare reform bill.
Leader?
A dictator is not a leader.
That is all he is, and all he ever wants to be.

Outside of Carter, Kucinich, and Paul, I can't think of a single politician who has held an office in Wash DC in the last 40 years, who doesn't fit that description, to be fair.

Hey prevost, I've asked several of those questions to the most die-hard "americas way is best" folks down here, and according to them, YOU guys hate your own health-care, and they even cite all the angry canadians who call in to shows like Limbaugh and stuff. It's amazing how you can just create facts by repeating lies, until people finally start believing them.

Here's an article, that quite frankly, scares the SHET out of me, check it out:

http://www.alternet.org/politics/141819 ... age=entire

You people arguing about nothing makes me laugh @ you.


Go run for senate or governor or wtf.

Make sure you write a song about it so you can be at least as famous as "The Naked Cowboy".

You bunch of gits.

Kramer ... Scary indeed.

Hehehe I dont have to quote Canadians from the radio. Just the ones I pulled the staples out of their hip incisions, in TEXAS.

You people arguing about nothing makes me laugh @ you.


Go run for senate or governor or wtf.

Make sure you write a song about it so you can be at least as famous as "The Naked Cowboy".

You bunch of gits.

If only it was that easy. The entire government is corrupt. Anyone who reflects real change is marginalized almost instantly. Look at what happened to Kucinich in the last election. The press ignored him, and when the people started liking his ideas? Well the press just stopped letting him into debates.

Yeah, gits.. Unfortunately, most people won't realize how bad it really is until it collapses upon them.

Hehehe I dont have to quote Canadians from the radio. Just the ones I pulled the staples out of their hip incisions, in TEXAS.

I guess america also makes the best cars, watches, and electronics too?

We have the best schools, roads, and space program too?

are we that arrogant?

This is worth reading folks...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/potter.health.insurance/index.html

Health Care is simply too big of an expense for most Americans to handle. This is why insurance companies are needed. What if defense of the country worked this way? Can anyone here pay for a stealth bomber? ICBMs?

Throughout history, members of a tribe or nation were provided defense and health care.

Ever heard of the Hippocratic oath? Hippocrates was perhaps the most famous physician in history. He and his students wrote over 70 books on health care and medicine. This could probably be considered the beginning of professional medicine. The working philosophy of his tradition was that health care should be practiced for love of mankind and NOT for profit. To this day, the Hippocratic oath must be sworn to, before beginning a private practice.

The ancient Egyptians not only kept meticulous records of medical cures and procedures, but DETAILED PATIENT RECORDS! Over 700 different drugs and medicines were known to them, for the preparation of over 800 treatments. Typically a patient would be worked on by a combination priest/physician as well as a pharmacist. His case was documented, so that other physicians could look at the patient's records, giving them their medical history with that illness, telling the new physician what to look for, and how he had been treated previously.

The world over, there are examples of very modern-like treatments by capable physicians of the time. These were not mere medicine men in grass skirts, practicing voodoo.

The health of a community, has ALWAYS been understood to be in the NATION'S best interest!

A healthy nation works more, accomplishes more, defends us better, etc...

It is a modern idea that we are islands and can fend for ourselves in every aspect of our lives. Ancients have always understood that there is greater safety and prosperity in numbers.

I liken health care to national defense. It is a role of government, paid by our taxes, for the benefit of THE NATION!

.....................................

Physicians in France average between (the equivelent of) $50K- $100K an year. And their system is still going broke.

Just a little food for thought.
How many American physicians would work for $50K a year I wonder?