General Music Chat

A short while ago I posted "Out Here."
There's about 7-8 vocal tracks singing in Harmony.
I posted 2 versions - the full song, and a version of just the voices.
.
A discussion ensued about the tightness of the vocals.
The thread was called "A Capella is Cool."
Ok - all is good - there were some good insights.
.
I made the observation that I didn't think this particular song necessarily needed tight vocals - I was vascillating, undecided.
.
So - OK.
I just posted an excerpt from my latest song of this same general style, "Nothing in Life is Free."
The guitar is more classical sounding, more "Earthy," more folk-like.
I feel this song does need tight vocals.
.
So - you can hear tight vs. 'not - tight.'
.
Tight: "Nothing in Life is Free."

Not tight: "Out Here."
.
Also, I'm curious as to how many rockers here would like this style of song . . .
Again, the new song, "Nothing in Life is Free," is posted as 2 excerpts . . . the full song is 5-1/2 minutes . . .

It's hard to say one way or the other. I need to hear the entire song to make a judgement. Tight sounded good but is it better? I'd have to hear a looser version of it to make a decision.

what you feel, they feel...
what you don't feel, they don't feel...
Whatever you feel!

Apples & oranges, if it isn't 2 versions of the same song, Alan.

Far as I'm concerned, when in doubt, tight is always best.

Good tunes, both.

It's personal taste, after all, but I prefer it when a band of singers/musicians act as a single unit rather than a buncha ppl personally expressing themselves through a song, cuz the latter never seems to speak to me as well, & the message often becomes muddied with too many separate attacks until it sounds like an argument rather than an agreement, or unified message. I guess that's the more "classical" approach to music, but it's simply what I prefer, 9 times our of ten, especially in a recording. Live, personal expression is more acceptable, but even there, tightness is more impressive to me than staggered attacks of voices.

what you feel, they feel...
what you don't feel, they don't feel...
Whatever you feel!

Hayden,
You are indeed a Rock&Roll sage!
(I don;t totaly agree with this particular passage, but for the most part, it rings of truth)



Allan,
"Everyone's trip is different"
(You can quote me on it)

Howlin'

This rocker likes the song. I can mellow with the best of em, gives the lump on my forehead time to heal.

I agree NOTHIN IN LIFE IS FREE should be sung tighter than OUT HERE.
OUT HERE has that spontaneous feel of a campfire gathering.

Not to pick nits but tightness is realy not he best desriptive term.

Both styles work, therefore both are "tight" in a sense of the word IMO.
This subject came up last night at practice as we worked out two more new songs, whether the harmony parts should start together or at different points in the measure.

Come on you music theorists help me out with the appropriate terminology.

...."the jam's the jam"...Louis Jordan

.... 'If you ain't got it, I can't explain it to ya".... Louis Armstrong ( one of the true fathers of American music)

anyways, George,
It appers that you're gettin' it.
(it is contagious)

HJ

Since I don't have my headphones and this lappy sounds crappy without them, I'm not listening but I will say this.

Do whatever sounds best for the song to YOU. It's your song, do it the way it sounds in your head. If we don't like it like that, WHO CARES??? If you like it that's what matters.

I've made comments on your songs before you probably didn't like a lot, but you didn't get angry, you had sense enough to realize it was constructive criticism, not slamming you. The songs themselves, I liked pretty well, it was the sound of the instruments and deficiencies in vocals that I commented on. I'd probably like these songs pretty well too, you're a good writer. But don't record it for someone else, record it for you.

If you want opinions in the mix, the general sound, that's what we're here for. I guess the current issue would be included, but I think if you feel the vocals should be tighter, do it that way, if not, then do it the other way. Then when I listen, I might tell you if the vocals need to be hotter or brought back more to the background, and if it seems it should be tighter and I notice it, then I might say something. But for what you're looking for, I think we would have to hear each done both ways.

The main thing though, is do it the way YOU want it to be done.

Paleopete wrote: this lappy sounds crappy

Holy crap! I just spit coffee all over my keyboard.

Careful George, I fried a laptop that way not long ago...

But I'm glad you got a kick out of it.

All sounds pretty good to me.

From a rocker standpoint, I like to hear something emotional jump out of a mix at me. Ussually the vocals have some quaility that draws me in. Some sort of distinctive voice. When I record my own vocals I ussually only try a song about 3 times, why cause each time I run thru it some of the emotion gets lost. I want that raw discovery sound to come thru recordings. I know I suck at it, but I want a reaction, either that sux or its brilliant, anything in between is well for want of a better word boring.

Alan your songs sound great and I think that youve commented to me in the past to do what makes me feel good and play music for myself first, so I will say use your own judgement when mixing your songs. You have the chops and the ears.

Thanks for sharing.

Ive got a session scheduled for next tuesday night to start putting together one of my songs from years ago. Hopefully I will get a version to post here. Ive decided to go back thru the songs Ive written thru the years and get a current recording of them and actually take the time to make a somewhat finished product. I think people on here including you Alan have helped me make the decision to do this. Thanks for that!

I guess I could clarify one point that I left out above - the background voices, imho, should nearly always be in synch, as it were, but the lead vocalist has a little room for creative expression, to keep it all from sounding too mechanical. That's just my take on it. In choral arrangements, however, all should be "tight." (with apologies to sans)

Again, it's just my useless 2 cents...

Wow - lotta responses . . .
.
Yeah, you guys are right about doing a song the way you want it to sound.
.
That's my #1 goal: to really enjoy the music. That means playing it the way I like.
.
But I also like to meet the audience 1/2 way.
If it sounds too weird or too amateurish, it'll never sell.
And - the more an audience enjoys a song - the more I enjoy performing it.
Everyone has their ideas of what sounds best; folks all have different musical backgrounds.
.
So, if I ask about a song, someone might notice something I didn't.

I expect a lot of reactons; everyone has a different mental framework . . .
If everyone mostly agrees that "A" should be "B," then I need to re-examine "A."
But - on the other hand -
. . . if people's opinions are all over the place: that's a good thing.
Hell - we're all different; fine by me.
Or, if folks are pretty evenly split - then that's good too.
.
What I'm being careful about is to not write songs that give people a 'lemon-face.'
.
What we, as artists, should be careful about is being too esoteric.
Yeah, I want to express myself and all . . .
But if only 1 out of a hundred people like a song - that's pretty bad.
If 10 out of a hundred like a song - 10% approval - that's not very good, either.
If 10 out of a hundred LOVE a song - well - that's probably good . . .
. . .
Where's the line?
20%? 30%?
I think that if 1 out of 3 people like a song - that's really pretty good.
50% of folks liking a song - is asking a lot . . . everyone has a favorite style of music.
.
Somewhere, down the line, we all have to decide how, - shall we say 'adventurous' - we can get with our music.
Too adventurous, and we'll be left playing at home in our living rooms, eh?

Alan, I think you just have to be true to yourself. If people like it fine. Ive always felt that there is an audience for almost any song, its just a matter of getting the two together.

Ive shared a lot about my cover band. We played alot of the same songs when I was a teenager, old Kiss, Aerosmith, AC/DC ZEP, whatever and at that time couldnt get anyone to hire us. We still play in that same vein and we get request for us to play cause people do request our band. One guy I used to play with always said if you do what you want to do musically long enough and stay at it, an audience will develop for your music. I hate to say it but I still like that music cause its my foundation.

Your music sounds great to me. I think anything I might say would be nitpicking. I will agree w Philby that Choral type vocals should be tight. I played in a gospel bluesgrass outfit for a couple of years at one time and that was something the vocalist really worked on was getting their vocals tight. If they had only been in key we would have had something, ha ha

Good Luck and keep going the way your are headed.

It's all subjective. Every listener is different. I prefer a tight sound myself, but who am I?

Wow - lotta responses . . .
.
Yeah, you guys are right about doing a song the way you want it to sound.
.
That's my #1 goal: to really enjoy the music. That means playing it the way I like.
.
But I also like to meet the audience 1/2 way.
If it sounds too weird or too amateurish, it'll never sell.
And - the more an audience enjoys a song - the more I enjoy performing it.
Everyone has their ideas of what sounds best; folks all have different musical backgrounds.
.
So, if I ask about a song, someone might notice something I didn't.

I expect a lot of reactons; everyone has a different mental framework . . .
If everyone mostly agrees that "A" should be "B," then I need to re-examine "A."
But - on the other hand -
. . . if people's opinions are all over the place: that's a good thing.
Hell - we're all different; fine by me.
Or, if folks are pretty evenly split - then that's good too.
.
What I'm being careful about is to not write songs that give people a 'lemon-face.'
.
What we, as artists, should be careful about is being too esoteric.
Yeah, I want to express myself and all . . .
But if only 1 out of a hundred people like a song - that's pretty bad.
If 10 out of a hundred like a song - 10% approval - that's not very good, either.
If 10 out of a hundred LOVE a song - well - that's probably good . . .
. . .
Where's the line?
20%? 30%?
I think that if 1 out of 3 people like a song - that's really pretty good.
50% of folks liking a song - is asking a lot . . . everyone has a favorite style of music.
.
Somewhere, down the line, we all have to decide how, - shall we say 'adventurous' - we can get with our music.
Too adventurous, and we'll be left playing at home in our living rooms, eh?