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#76057 by CraigMaxim
Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:33 pm
Prevost,

No, I have not been to a Muslim country.

Outside of the U.S. I have been to:

South Korea
Peru
Denmark


But here in the states I have possibly had more personal relationships with people of other countries, cultures and religions, on a more regular basis than most of you have.

My ex-wife was Peruvian (hence spending time in Peru) although it was an amazing experience, particularly my visit to Machu Pichu.

I lived 8 years in Washington D.C. and was director of operations for a catering company there, which put me in the Capitol building and various congressional office buildings and the supreme court and places like this, on almost a daily basis. I have personally met many congressmen, celebrities, heads of state, diplomats, Kings and Queens, Presidents, vice presidents, their wives and families, you name it. Because I was in charge of these events, I often had chances for not only discussions of the events with them, but personal conversations on many occassions. I know alot about many of them. I have seen enough with a few of them, that I could have personally gotten them out of office, or defeated a nomination hearing on a candididate for Secretary for Defense, for example. I have been inside the Russian Embassy, and many other embassies.

I have never been a racist, so living in a place like Washington D.C. in particular, I have had friends from all over the world, and all walks of life, throughout my life. I hung out with Spanish people from more countries than I can count, Japanese, Koreans, Italians, Lebanese, Saudis, Germans, Chinese, Vietnamese, Polish, people from Belize, Holland, Jamaica, Somalia, U.K., France, Austria, Spain, Phillipines... and on and on. I mean seriously, this is for starters.

My mother is also very non-racist, and between the two of us, we have had roomates from Mexico, Jamaica, Italy, Virgin Islands, Lebanon, Poland, France and Belize. These were not just friends, but roomates, and many many discussions were always part of the experience.

Then...

I joined a religious cult called the Moonies, and this took the roomate list to one being on crack. For 2 years I lived in a group house with other members who lived there, and many others who came through for periods of time. The varied nationalities was mind-boggling, and despite eventually seeing through the destructive nature of the cult, the things I learned from these many varied people from all over the world, was rewarding and enlightening. We discussed not only cultural issues between their countries and America, but also religious identities and political realities. I know all too well, what our CIA is capable of, and knowing these people personally, WELL BEFORE THE INTERNET being common, I learned things about other countries and their experiences, that most Americans had no idea of.

I have lived with many people from all over the world, and living with them, even more than having discussions with them, brings knowledge of them to a whole new level, when I witness their cultural traditions first hand, and often have to alter my own to some degree to accomodate theirs. Things like taking my shoes off outside the house, avoiding certain gestures that are meaningless to me, but offensive to their cultures. Living with them, eating with them, being taken to special events related to their cultures. Very enlightening and rewarding.

However, because I saw first hand how dangerous the Moonies were, how they used people to make Moon rich, and buy him power, which he then used to influence other countries, including my own, after sorting their theology out and their claims about Christian theology, and that Moon was the Messiah, all that stuff.... after several years of getting back to myself, I realized that because Moon knew me personally, and I had witnessed things in his mansions throughout America and the world, that few other Moonies had seen... I realized I could be a force for helping some of them leave, and helping others be aware of their manipulative practices, so they could avoid that cult.

In speaking out, I became known throughout the world as a leading critic of thir group. As such, I have been interviewed on national televison in Japan 3 times, been interviewed by the Guardian in the U.K., by the Washington Post, by Agence France...

Many, many others.

There is a partial list here, and a picture of me behind Moon. I'm in the pink Korean outfit:

http://www.geocities.com/craigmaxim/c-3a.html

There are also quotes and sometimes several parapgraphs about me, in 4 or 5 books that I am aware of, and probably many more worldwide. The most recent I am aware of, was John Gorenfeld's recent book, about the powerful influence Moon has achieved within the Republican Party. He has several paragraphs about me in it, and tells me, my story is so interesting that he wanted to do a whole chapter on my life, but it took him a year to find me, and most of the book was done by then. After 5 years or more of working to warn people of the dangers of this cult, I just got wore out, and it wasn't changing anything politically, only for individuals personally. But the indivudals were helped mostly by the information I had on my website, and I realized that the website would remain up working for this end, whether I was maintaining it or not. So I left my website up, but went back to some semblance of normal life.

You can find John Gorenfeld's book here:

http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Moon-Rising-W ... 0979482232

There is a way to find some of the paragraphs about me from Amazon directly I believe. They offer samples of the books, and my name comes up in a search.


Aside from being married to a foreigner, and belonging to a foreign cult, I have just always loved people, and loved knowledge, so even as a common person, I have ALWAYS had friends from all over the world, and enjoyed deep and meaningful discussions with them.

There are Muslims, Bhuddists, Communists, Atheists, and other diverse people, who consider me family.

I think I have said before:

I'm not easy to peg or pidgeon hole.

I have had many lifetimes worth of experiences and learned from all of them.

#76058 by CraigMaxim
Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:37 pm
ColorsFade and Dave,

I am expressing MY opinion, not yours.

It is MY belief that God is love itself. And through the prism of THAT belief, there are not many real atheists in the world.

When Prevost says there are not many real Christians in the world, I don't take offense. I understand him to be using his own criteria for what a Christian is to him.

#76059 by Sir Jamsalot
Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:38 pm
CF wrote: Here's a tip you might want to become aware of for further conversations: Atheism is a disbelief in God. *snip* - when having a discussion about Atheism with an Atheist.


CF - disbelief as in a positive assertion "there is no God", or more of an agnostic approach - "we can't know, so I'll remain skeptical until I see a miracle that convinces me personally" ?

I ask because depending on the atheist you ask, the term can mean either.

#76060 by CraigMaxim
Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:47 pm
ColorsFade wrote:

Here's a tip you might want to become aware of for further conversations: Atheism is a disbelief in God. Not Love. Atheists do not believe those two are the same thing. You might want to consider that - and not your own personal definition of Atheism - when having a discussion about Atheism with an Atheist.



But I did not try and convince you to abandon your disbelief in God. I merely shared my own personal belief. I know that you are an avowed atheist, how? Because you shared your belief with me.

I shared mine back.

You may not like that I did that.

But it didn't bother me that you shared yours.

I didn't attack you for being an atheist in any way.

The only thing that could be called an "attack on you" was in your demeaning the threat of radical Muslims who seek nuclear weapons to set off in America.

This is not an opinion however.

It is fact.

So, in that case, I didn't feel any need to "respect" your dismissal of facts.

If you told me you believed that the Earth was flat, you can expect something similar.

#76061 by Dave Couture
Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:47 pm
CraigMaxim wrote:It is MY belief that God is love itself. And through the prism of THAT belief, there are not many real atheists in the world.


So, following your logic, "true" Atheists are ppl who don't love?

#76062 by Chippy
Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:51 pm
According to legend he built the STEP Pyramid. I've yet to see a society on this planet that could do such a thing but you are right Imhotep!

Dave Couture wrote:Do you mean Imhotep? If not, I don't get it...hell, I don't get it either ways... :lol:


Edited sorry. Step Pyramid. (Though in earlier years...............)
Last edited by Chippy on Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#76063 by Dave Couture
Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:55 pm
Chippy wrote:According to legend he built the great Pyramid. I've yet to see a society on this planet that could do such a thing but you are right Imhotep!

Dave Couture wrote:Do you mean Imhotep? If not, I don't get it...hell, I don't get it either ways... :lol:


Deep thought, there, Chippy... :P But, I'm still failing to understand how this applies to my post about changing the name of the thread....sorry, haha!

#76064 by Chippy
Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:01 pm
Cuz I am deep Dave. Can't help it. The way I am and I was wrong. It was the STEP Pyramid. Ever been there?

I dunno mate? Life is like walking on stones with hot feet sometimes. But just sometimes that gives you something to talk or write about and I hope that goes some way to getting me brownie points :D

OH Soz! Yeah the name of this thread.


I would name it ANYTHING.. :roll:

#76066 by Dave Couture
Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:07 pm
Ha, OK! And, no, I'v never been there, but my Parents did and they loved it!

You'll get tons of Brownie Points :wink:

#76067 by CraigMaxim
Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:25 pm
Dave,

Seriously. Please.

I think the statement is clear enough.


To clarify:

Of course "Atheists" believe in love, and because it is my belief, that God "IS" love, then by default, you are in a relationship with God, and simply unaware of it.

Now, you are free to take this statement, which you baited out of me, to now slam me for demeaning your belief, and insisting that you DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD and that I am therefore demeaning you, but this is not reality, because we are discussing opposing BELIEFS.


Imagine this scenario:

We are discussing aliens, and you show me a picture of President Obama, and ask "Who is that?" and I say "It's President Obama" and you say "You just THINK it's President Obama! But he is really a shape-shifting alien, they are all around us! And when you see that form, it is NOT REALLY President Obama, it is an alien posing as President Obama!"

Should I then say "How dare you demean me, for suggesting that when I see President Obama I am really seeing a shape-shifitng alien and only think it is President Obama! Boy, you just crap all over anyone who doesn't believe in shape-shifting aliens don't you?!!!"

There are people who believe in shape-shifting aliens that hold positions of power throughout the world. There are in fact, masses of people who believe this.

Maybe they are right. Maybe they are wrong.

But I wouldn't take the position that because I didn't believe the same, they are offending me, by suggesting that I am seeing an alien in reality, though I believe I see only a man.

If I believe that God is love, and by extension, that if you believe in love then you believe in God, this is a natural conclusion of my belief. It in no way demeans you or your beliefs, and contrarily, it actually demeans my own right to express my belief, because apparently the only way not to "demean you" since I hold a different view than you, would be to not express my view.

And yet, in another thread you said we could agree to disagree.

You see, I have no problem with you expressing your viewpoint, even though it contradicts mine, and yet you and Colors don't extend the same courtesy, if you claim you are demeaned merely by my expressing my own belief system.

Your attitude in this would be as if I were forcing you to accept my belief and denying your own right to believe what you choose. Neither of which occurred. Because sharing a belief is not forcing someone to believe it, and never once did I ask you to desist from continuing to share your beliefs with me.

Amazingly, though I never demeaned anyone for their atheistic belief system, I was attacked for doing so anyway, and then promptly demeaned and insulted myself.

Wow!

I never insulted either one of you for being professed atheists.

I did not receive the same courtesy in return.

#76071 by CraigMaxim
Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:32 pm
Oops,

My apologies Dave, I was in a rush and misread your question. I have been checking on this thread in between other stuff. Sorry.

Yes.

If God is love (my belief) then the only people who don't believe in God, or more properly, don't have a relationship to God, would be those who disavow love.

#76072 by Dave Couture
Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:40 pm
CraigMaxim wrote:If God is love (my belief) then the only people who don't believe in God, or more properly, don't have a relationship to God, would be those who disavow love.


You know what, I like that ....I truly do :P

I rather see someone who believes that God is love and love is in "everyone", than seeing someone who believe that God is the puppeteer of mankind and we shall obey him (without questioning it)...sort of speak!

I wish more religious ppl be like you.

#76076 by CraigMaxim
Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:58 pm
Dave,

Not meaning this arrogantly, but I truly believe that God Himself wishes there were more people like me.

Humanity is a family.

The life-blood is LOVE

If I see a professed atheist loving others and doing good things for people, and a traditional Christian would warn someone away from them: "Oh, stay away from that guy, he's an atheist, he's evil!"

I would be compelled to try and correct them, asking them whether or not it was satan that provided the loving motivation they clearly hold and more importantly, practice!

I would then ask whether that Christian believed the Bible, when it said "God is love" and when they said "Yes" which they would, either with or without a qualifier, I would then ask if satan borrowed, and then loaned God's love to the atheist temporarily, because he sure has alot of it.

I would point out that the proof of God in their life, is the very love itself, they practice.

Based on my experiences with God, One thing I can assure you of, is this:

If limited to a choice, God will choose atheists who practice love, over Theists who do not.
Last edited by CraigMaxim on Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#76077 by Sir Jamsalot
Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:00 pm
haha. thought this was pretty neat. It helps to put into view what a trillion dollars looks like.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... &aid=12754

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