General Music Chat

ColorsFade,

I deplore the violence, whether from Christian or Muslim or any other religion. But the Catholic Church has been deplored for their acts for decades upon decades now, centuries even, and what Muslims are working toward is NOW. It is happening NOW!!! Can you understand why this is precient? I cannot affect violence that has ALREADY occured, but violence occuring NOW, can be spoken out against. While you are WAITING for the Muslim faith to "mature" and go the way of other faiths, becoming more modern and mainstream in their attitudes, people are being killed all over the globe, and prefer not to WAIT for this to end, but to end SOON, to end NOW.

As to abortion extremists, these are a relatively few radicals, and of course what they are doing is wrong. But they are not millions strong, they are not represented by entire NATIONS and funded through OIL WEALTH. They will not acquire nuclear weapons and use them.

Don't be so naive that you are stupid with not only your life, but mine and my family's.

Get rid of the politically correct lines you repeat, and deal with REALITY!

Whether you are offended or not, if you are so unknowledeable to compare a few abortion whackos to people who CAN and WILL seek to destroy an entire city with a nuclear weapon or dirty bomb... you are a FOOL!

Well, I, for one, just wish it would hurry the hell up & be done with!

Ppl are bound, sometimes, to fulfill prophesy, esp after they've read the prophesy.

I often wonder if that isn't the reason we (with Britain & Russia) recreated Jewish rule in Israel - to fulfill a prophesy.

Ridiculous as it sounds, it's been done time & again, in many religions. Doesn't make any of them true if you actively force the prophesy to occur, imho. It sounds like someone trying to control others, to me, by manipulating history & superstition (or absolute faith, if you prefer) to their own ends.

And Craig - ppl who disagree with you are not fools. You really need to stop that. They have different points of view, based on their own world view, & the info at hand. It seems that there are a whole lot of ppl that disagree with you. Accept it, for peace' sake!

Phil,

You cannot see the forest for the trees, and with political correctness guiding you, you likely never will.

You can overlook Muhammad's instruction for his followers to subjugate the ENTIRE WORLD, by force if necessary, and KILL ANY INFIDEL who will not consent to Muslim rule, but I assure you, many, if not most, of his followers WILL NOT overlook this instruction.

And when an entire nation, like Iran, finances these people to attain nuclear weapons and use them, and commit terrorist acts against us, then you have a problem. But until it is your neighborhood, I guess you will refuse to see this reality.

And this is NOT because of American meddling.

This is a THOUSANDS OF YEARS old issue ultimately.

Even Muhammad's instructions are HUNDREDS OF YEARS old.

This is a religious war at it's root, and has LITTLE TO DO with meddling. Review the history of the expansion of Islam, and see how it is accomplished through military means.

These extermist Muslim nations will not be satisfied until ISRAEL IS DESTROYED and AMERICA IS DESTROYED. It is shouted from the speakers throughout Iran at every morning prayer. Death to Israel. Death to America.

If America were NOT to meddle, then Israel would be destroyed. Once Israel is destroyed, they would get right back to us. Their faith tells them to SUBJEUGATE THROUGH FORCE the ENTIRE WORLD.

Wake up.

Please wake up!

Well Dave,

If two of your family members were killed or ALL of them were killed, it would make a HUGE difference.

Not if they were all killed for the same reason! Sure, it would be a greater lost to lose all my family, but it’s more about WHY they were killed, rather than the number of killings….as I was pointing out!!!!!!

My mind has been made A LONG TIME AGO about religion and ppl who kill in the name of religion. NOTHING you can say will change my mind. The only thing you can do, is accepting that you and I have a difference of opinion on this issue…no disrespect intended.

Oh Craig! Mohammed's words aren't the only ones in that book. His are the OLDEST, but not necessarilly the driving force that brings ppl into their fold.

Your average Moslem is not out to take your life if you don't convert. Save your paranoia for things that you should fear.

It isn't political correctness that drives me. It's LOGIC. The more power ppl give these ancient words, written for different times with often different meanings, the more strife will evolve.

I do not fear the Nation Of Islam coming into my living room & killing me if I don't convert. I fear my gov't's manipulation of prophesy for their own ends!

And I fear nutcases who refuse to look at things in a logical fashion, & those who truly believe in prophesy, for they can be so easilly manipulated by ppl who have naught but their own greed & power-hunger to drive them. And that's happening on both sides of this religious problem...

guys, seriously-

The Koran, the bible, etc.. ALL written well over a thousand years ago (I know, bible is 2k years)... just making a general statement.

These books are written in 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th hand, six degrees of separation by people about people who know nothing as actual fact. They wrote the books based on broad assumptions and lack of substantiated facts. On top of it all, these same people would have seen something like that northern lights, or a rainbow, as a MAJOR religious experience. Imagine the wonders we witness daily, that are simply explained by scientific fact only as recent as a few hundred years ago.

I don't trust a damn thing written by people who had 25-30 year lifespans, an average 60 IQ, and hadn't yet invented toilet paper. Not only do I not trust it, I can only believe that those books are either story-time fiction used like today's fairy tales to teach kids to be good, or just the ravings of lunatics who saw their own shadow from moonlight and decided that some flying spaghetti monster invented the universe.

Now.. I'm not saying there's no god. But I'm sure as hell saying organized religion is f**k whacko, and has historically committed genocides over and over and over and over and over... all in the name of INTOLERANCE and arrogance.

And the intolerance is what I'm seeing too much of in your arguments with each other..

People like you will get us all killed Craig. Your obvious hatred and fear of Muslims is what will perpetuate this mess for years to come. The circle of death, unbreakable as long as people continue to think like you do.

Muslims are not a violent people. Nor are they hateful. Nor do they want to rule the world. You really should go speak to someone of the Muslim faith who isn't a terrorist; someone who isn't an extremist; a radical; a fundamentalist. You need an education in the worst way.

But it's not surprising, really. You're typical of most people of the Christian faith that I've met. You're guided by fear; you perpetuate the lies you've been told so you can feed the fear and spread it among other people; anyone who opposes your hateful, spiteful thinking is being a "politically correct" idiot.

Your attitude doesn't surprise me at all. I've given up on believing that Christians still understand the message of Jesus. They've twisted it into something evil now...

I can only believe that those books are either story-time fiction used like today's fairy tales to teach kids to be good, or just the ravings of lunatics who saw their own shadow from moonlight and decided that some flying spaghetti monster invented the universe.

Best description I ever heard someone use about the Bible: "It's fairy tales for adults."


Of course, that doesn't mean you still can't gain some personal satisfaction - some meaning - from reading them. I don't find it any different than any other book - you get out of it what you want.

I don't begrudge people who believe they lead a richer life because they read the Bible on a regular basis. I feel like I lead a richer life because of some of the things I read. So to each his own.

Where I take issue is when people start holding the Bible up as strict fact, and try and use it as justification to rule and kill each other.

God's pretty clear on this issue: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28151

And guess what? We're STILL waiting for adequate health care!

Phil,

No doubt that people sometimes work to fulfill the prophecies they believe in. Sure this happens. But some prophecies are visions of the future. No one minds when it is from Nostrodamous but when it is the Bible, or some other religious book, then it is a problem.

But a HUGE portion of the Bible is prophetic, as much as a third of it is considered prophetic or containing prophecies. Many of them have come true, and more are to come.

Many that came true could not be reinacted or created.

This is an example of just one:

TYRE, had a remarkable prophecy concerning it, in Isaiah 23 (in 715BC) and in Ezekiel 26 (in 588BC), ----- this is what was predicted :

1. That Nebuchadnezzar (the Chaldeans) will destroy the mainland city of Tyre (Isa.23:13 ; Ez.26:8).
2. At the end of 70 years, Tyre will recover and to return to business (Isa.23:15-17).
3. That Tyre would give some of her earnings to the Lord (Isa.23:18).
4. That many nations will come against Tyre (Ez.26:3).
5. The rubble of the city will be thrown into the sea (Ez.26:12).
6. That Tyre will be scraped flat like the top of a rock (Ez.26:4).
7. Tyre will finally be destroyed and never be rebuilt (26:14).

This is how those prophecies were fulfilled :

1. Nebuchadnezzar laid seige to mainland Tyre in 585BC, and overthrew it in 573BC, and the people of Tyre retreated to an island half a mile off the shore, and built up a city there.
2. 70 years later, when the Persians overthrew Babylon, island-Tyre recovered to prosper fairly well.
3. Cyrus, king of Persia, forced island-Tyre to contribute materials to rebuild Yaweh's Temple in Jerusalem.
4. The Assyrians and Egyptians attacked Tyre, and Alexander the Great (Greece) brought military forces from Sidon, Aradus, Byblus, Rhodes, Soli, Mallos, Lycia, Macedon and Cyprus.
5. Alexander's forces took the stones & rubble of fallen mainland Tyre, and threw it into the sea, to build a causeway out to the island-city of Tyre.
6. To smooth out the causeway, the lose topsoil and "dust" was scraped off and added to the causeway.
7. Alexander reduced island-Tyre to ruins in 332BC, and although people tried to rebuild it, island-Tyre was completely destroyed by the Saracens in 1291AD. Though an condominium area they call "Tyre" has been built a few miles away, the flat-topped site where the ancient ruins used to be has never been rebuilt, despite a flowing spring of fresh water running through it. That flat site is still only used for the spreading of nets.


God has given me dreams and told me of things to come. Some have happened, and some are coming. Call me whacky, but God speaks to me, and has proven his reality to me MANY times in my life. It is why, and my wife knows this very well, I will listen to and follow God, above anyone or anything else, and it doesn't matter what it costs me personally. It doesn't matter, even to death.

I could share more experiences than you would know what to do with. Where God has saved my life literally, where He has shown me a video in my mind of my wife as a child, and what she was doing, and she CONFIRMED that these things were true, and there was NO WAY I could have known them.

God is real.

He has been distorted by well meaning religionists, who filter the revelations they receive through biases, or through their limited understanding of the time, or scientific things shown them through their unscientific minds, etc... Their interpretations of the revelations they receive have not always been accurate, but God continues revelaing Himself, even to this day.

Religion ends up doing almost as much harm as it does good, because as time passes, the more honest root, grows into a large tree, and it's adherents begin loving the form and culture of the religion, more than they do the original purposes of the religion, and more importantly, the Creator who it is meant to serve in the first place.

So Christians believe Muslims are worshipping a false God, even though these people are close to God's heart, and their own Bible tells them that God promised to build them into a great people. Christian accuse Jews also of worshipping a false God, even though they admit that more than 2000 years ago they had the right one.

Muslims want to destory Israel, because God promised them he would build them into a great people. But God did not promise them they should destroy Israel.

Jews have the most ancient tradition. Jesus was a Jew. Their Messiah had come, and they rejected Him. They had come to love the law, more than the law-giver. Over time they got off the path.

Christianity today is making the same mistake as Jews did 2 millenia ago, and yet they don't realize it. The have come to love their sancturaries and cultures more than the God who blessed them in the first place. So you have them more concerned about politics than bringing souls to God.

They pass out pamphlets that proclaim "If you said this prayer, then you are now saved"

Which is offensive and untrue. Reading something off a piece of paper will not save anyone. Praying a prayer will not save anyone. Just about all Christians recognize that Paul was saved on the Road to Damascas, but he didn't read anything off a piece of paper. He did not pray a salvation prayer. He did not ask for salvation. He didn't even know He was talking to Jesus at the time.

The thief on Jesus' right side, who dies along side him, didn't pray a prayer of salvation, he didn't read anything off a piece of paper. He didn't confess his sins. All Christians for the most part, recognize that he was saved right then and there, and Jesus' wasn't even dead yet.

Christians tend to forget their own theology, that Jesus "IS" Creator God. And when ANYONE is praying to the God who created the universe, they are PRAYING TO THE RIGHT GOD!

God knows who created the universe, even if Christians or others forget.

And when that person prays to the one who created the universe, the one who created the universe hears them and responds. Whether that message is understood correctly through the filter of religious and historical and political bias, is a matter between the Creator and that individual.

But God knows who they are talking to!

And guess what? We're STILL waiting for adequate health care!

Yes we are.

But remember - it's not your "right" to have health care.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/281590/Healthcare-Is-%22Not-a-Right%22-and-Obama%27s-Plan-Will-Cost-Way-Beyond-1T-Ron-Paul-Says

You have a right to life... just not a healthy one, apparently...

You have a right to life... just not a healthy one, apparently...

lol, priceless!!!

ColorsFade,

I am not your typical Christian. I do believe that the Bible is inspired by God, but many Christians believe it is literally the words of God. They believe this, even though they use the term "Inspired by God". Yet when they see a movie that is "Inspired by true events" they are not confused, that there may have been some embelishment or mistakes here and there, and that the important thing is that the movie has captured the "HEART" of the story. the basic truths of the events.

Christians are holding onto interpretations of scripture that were handed down thousands of years ago by church fathers who were doing their best to present what they understood the truth to be. Because of this, even with the advent of scientific advances, you still have Christians who believe the world was created in 6 literal days. They believe that evolutionary processes are somehow "evil" because the Bible says that Adam was formed out of the dust of the Earth, and it doesn't mention anything about evolutionary processes. The Earth therefore, is thousands of years old, and not billions.

But because people misinterpret the Bible, does not mean it is not a holy book, inspired by God, and profitable for instruction and correction of the souls of men.

Some of Einstein's theories have been proven to be incorrect. It doesn't mean we reject ALL of Einstein's work.

Why would religious text be held to a higher standard than you would apply to scientific text?

There is only one likely reason, because it's adherents claim it to be infallible and perfect in every respect, and so when you find it to not be perfect, you reject it altogether. Which means, you are investigating it for yourself, and yet using a standard you don't even believe in, to reject it.

That's intelligent.

Craig ... have you ever been to a Muslim country? Have you ever traveled outside the US? I think if you had your views would be different.

Like in the US, most ppl around the world are trying to make a living and survive. Yes there are a few drum beating religious fanatics, like you, in every country, but the majority are in the center.

I'm in ColorsFade's camp ... religions wants control over your life and to control free thinking and if you do everything right, your next life will be glorious ...

Well, I live for today ... hair straight back living life to it's fullest. Having said that I do live by the morels setout in the Bible ... I think that that is one good thing about that book .... but it's a book and nothing more.

I think Jesus would be shocked at the direction religion has taken in the extreme

But I don't see what this has to do with HC

And guess what? We're STILL waiting for adequate health care!

Yes we are.

But remember - it's not your "right" to have health care.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/281590/Healthcare-Is-%22Not-a-Right%22-and-Obama%27s-Plan-Will-Cost-Way-Beyond-1T-Ron-Paul-Says

You have a right to life... just not a healthy one, apparently...

What is meant by "right"? This has confused me for a while when it comes to discussing politics. I mean, if 5 people made up a small commnity one of those people was a doctor, and the constitution stated "you have a right to healthcare", does that mean the 1 doctor has to treat everyone free of charge? Is that right a dictatorial statement forcing the one to serve the others?

The term "right" I think is not being used correctly.