General Music Chat

...The rest of the world says we are arrogant and that hurts because we have stood for freedom and I think we can all agree on that. We as a people feel very misunderstood by the rest of the world. I feel like we have sacrificed so much only to be secretly hated by most of the world and the reason for the secrecy in my opinion is beacause the rest of the world needs our money

I wouldn't say "secretly hated", ppl are pretty outspoken about their feeling for the US . Being a Canadian, I was often asked what I thought of Americans, by different ethnicity when I was in college and when I visited other countries. I got to hear a lot of what they had to say about America. So, in a respectful attempt to answer one of your question about why the "world" dislike the US, I will give you the most common comments that I remember:

- behave in a disrespectful manner when visiting other countries...very frequent, apparently!
- tell the world what to do, then turn around and do the opposite
- big bully
- think that USA is better than everybody else, and like reminding the world of it (in your face attitude)
- tells the world that they are the world's police and they stands for freedom, while they have a long history of slavery and torture of the African-Americans. Even today, the black American isn't totally free in his OWN country (at least, not free of prejudice).

Don't get me wrong, I do too think the USA is a great country and have accomplished a whole lot. All American should be proud of that, no doubt!!! But, I think you guys lost track of the real values and sentiment of being a one of the leaders of the free world. It seems that America is all about control, now.

Like, did you know the United Europe have been trying to put a GPS satellite in orbit for some times, now? They have been unsuccessful, because the US have been blocking the project. The US's response on the issue: "this is not in America's best interest". I'm a GIS Specialist for the government, doing GPS Data Collection, Satellite Imaging, Remote Sensing and digital mapping is what I do for a living and it's what I know best, after music . Did you know that the US Defense has control of ALL 30 GPS satellites AND only the US has the switch to turn off the Public frequency? Now, THAT scares the sh*t of a lot of ppl...mainly after the Iraq invasion! Every single GPS Receivers in the world is at the control of the US Defense.

I don't know man, I think I love America, just as much as I hate it. You guys accomplish great things for the world, but the bad things that you do, scar a lot of ppl in this world too. And, the lies, my gosh, the lies. During the whole Bush administration, the world came to realize how the US government likes to insult our intelligence (I know most of my American friends felt that way too).

There are no perfect countries and every country carries marks of bad decisions and low history moments. But, if you ask me which 3 countries I would prefer to live in, I would say Canada, Britain and Switzerland. I lived in the US, for a year. I've made quite a few good friends, but I also had to put up with a lot of insults. You see, I'm a French-Canadian and I do speak with a French accent, a bit. So, I was mocked for being a "Free-loaded" Canadian and speaking French. When I decided to move back to Canada, I was really glad to be back in a land of tolerance and REAL freedom.

Don't get me wrong, I do too think the USA is a great country and have accomplished a whole lot. All American should be proud of that, no doubt!!! But, I think you guys lost track of the real values and sentiment of being a one of the leaders of the free world. It seems that America is all about control, now...

...I don't know man, I think I love America, just as much as I hate it. You guys accomplish great things for the world, but the bad things that you do, scar a lot of ppl in this world too. And, the lies, my gosh, the lies. During the whole Bush administration, the world came to realize how the US government likes to insult our intelligence (I know most of my American friends felt that way too).

There are no perfect countries and every country carries marks of bad decisions and low history moments.

I can see where you're coming from Dave, and I appreciate you being respectful in your responses throughout this thread. As an American, I agree that America has control issues. America (the country) needs to let go of some of the world that her hands are gripping and allow her friends to play too.

You made a good point that no country is perfect, and all countries have hit bumps in the road. I love America, and I love living in America. Lately though, America needs to have her nose in the time-out corner though. From all of the time we have spent in the mid-east, to contreversy over Obama's citizenship, and other things. The people of this country need to unite and focus our concerns on what is happening here. We need to "fix" this country, then worry about "fixing" the world. We don't need to be the police of the world anymore, at least not to the extent that we have been. We need to seize this opportunity and create a healthcare system that works. We need to handle our finances responsibly and mend our economy.

Good thread Dave.

haha, thanks man. I agree too, it's time for Americans to put back the United in United-States!

Like Dave from Canada noticed arrogance and stupidity abounds in this thread

(Dave, this post is no reflection on you...)

When one examines the actions of others, one recognizes the faults because the same faults are in oneself. Prime example: StringDancer and STUPIDITY. You see it on the board because you are full of it yourself. It's sad that you feel the need to cause drama everywhere you post on this site.

What's wrong with you man -- didn't the letter you received teach you anything? You're going to get kicked off the site for good because you have this irresistable urge to offend everyone you're around. Are you this way in person? Do you walk around your community with a chip on your shoulder insulting everyone who happens to get on you nerves a bit? You're nothing but a trash talking punk who has nothing better to do with his time than to bring other people down in order to make yourself feel better about your pathetic little existence.

I don't particularly agree with GONGHEAD on everything, but that doesn't mean that I should call out GH on everything and insult GH's family. You're crossing lines here that you may not be able to uncross. Some friendly advise, IF the online community here decides to tolerate you much longer: tread lightly.

Hey Groove thanks for the morality lesson I know you mean well even thought your language toward me is harsh, since you took the time to reply to my post let me answer some of the questions you posed.

First I did not insult Bongo head’s family Bongo brought his grandmother into the discussion in his idiotic post I just followed up with and hypothetical using his grandmother.

Second when I debate people with some intelligence usually I’m diplomatic and civil when knowing that my interlocutor usually takes the time to listen and evaluate my point of view even if s/ he disagree the whole affair is done with civility, but when debating a programmed mind or bunker mentality, civility is as useful as a bib on a pig, in that case I behave just as badly as they do, the purpose is mirror their behavior and maybe making them realize how they come across to informed and civilize people.

Third, Bandmix has got me on parole I think that’s why I’m still able to post, but I did replay to BM notifying them that due to my lack of tolerance to xenophobia, racism, prejudice and views expressed with ignorance, arrogance and condescending tone, my rebuttals will be just as harsh and offensive for the fore mentioned reason, now if BM wants to silence me for it fine let them do so coz I will not compromise my views and values and method of addressing stupidity for the sake of BM membership.

Dave from Canada gave a fair and accurate assessment of our health care system problem the causes effects and the people behind it, only to be attacked by an ignorant (here I go again) bunker mind who in his zeal to defend the USA he ends up defending a morally a financially bankrupt health care system while at the same time knocks down other counties health care programs without having a clues how people in other country benefit from their respective health care programs, do you know how frustrating is for a guy who travels the world and seen firsthand how beneficial and superior other countries health care system are compare the USA system?

For those who care to know what other counties think of our health care system here it is; they say our health care is barbaric and uncivilized, human suffering should not be a source of revenue to be traded on wall street, people’s health should not be treated as product to be bought sold and traded on the stock market, I heard more but smart people got the idea of what the rest of civilized and industrialized world think of us.

I believe part of our educational system curricula should include one year abroad for all student prior to high school, it would go a long way in turning a lot of red necks into individuals with some empirical experiences and knowledge.

Second when I debate people with some intelligence usually I’m diplomatic and civil when knowing that my interlocutor usually takes the time to listen and evaluate my point of view even if s/ he disagree the whole affair is done with civility, but when debating a programmed mind or bunker mentality, civility is as useful as a bib on a pig, in that case I behave just as badly as they do, the purpose is mirror their behavior and maybe making them realize how they come across to informed and civilize people.

Stringdancer, this post makes you seem friendly, intelligent, and with some actual ideas to express. Maybe this is because bandmix has you on parole, or maybe you're trying to come across as a nice guy to some of the newer people (like Dave) so that you can keep stirring them up against others on here that you've battled with in the past. I don't know. But as far as debating people with intelligence and being civil, just go back and read your posts and you'll see that you jumped in on civil conversations that had nothing to do with racism or bigotry, and just said some really hateful things, just to disrupt that post. And that is why you were labeled as a troll. I'm sure that the bandmix people, when reviewing your posts, will see this. So, if you can remain civil and intelligent in the future, more power to you. But if you slip back into your past style, you will be booted and it won't be because of anyone but yourself and your past activities here. If you don't remember some of those posts, I'll be glad to go back and bring them up and show them. Personally, I'd rather just drop them and let you keep posting on here, as long as it contributes instead of destroys.
Peace, bro.

haha, thanks man. I agree too, it's time for Americans to put back the United in United-States!

What if George W. Bush had:

1) ...made a joke at the expense of the Special Olympics, would you have approved?

2) ...had given Prime Minister Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVD's when Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

3) ...had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?

4) ...had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have approved?

5) ...had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?

6) ...had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current on their income taxes, would you have approved?

7) ...had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single tree on "Earth Day," would you have concluded that he is a hypocrite?

...and his Administration had okayed Air Force One flying low over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown Manhattan, causing widespread panic all for the sake of a photo op, would you have questioned whether they actually realized what happened on 9-11?

9) ...had been the first president to need a teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how inept he is?

10) ...had failed to send aid to flood victims throughout the Midwest, with more people killed or made homeless than in New Orleans, would you have wanted it made into a major ongoing political issue with claims of racism and incompetence?

11) ...had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?

12) ...had proposed to double the national debt (which had taken more than two centuries to accumulate) in one short year, would you have approved?

13) ...had then proposed to double the national debt again 10 times within 20 years, would you have approved?

14) ...had reduced your retirement plan's holdings of GM stock by 90% and given the unions a major stake in GM, would you have approved?

15) ...had spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in New York City, would you have approved?

16) ...had promised to have the most "transparent" administration in history, and instead tried to push legislation through without giving representatives time to review or understand what they are voting on, would you have approved?

17) ...had an administration filled with more "czars" than Russia, who are held to no level of accountability and may actually be unconstitutional, would you have approved?

18) ...had seized every opportunity when abroad to criticize and apologize for his own country, would you have approved?

19) ...defended his Administration's ineffective use of billions of dollars of stimulus funds to create jobs, (which has not happened) and jolt the economy (which has not happened) would you have approved?

20) ...had promised that unemployment rates in the nation would not rise above 8% once the stimulus bill was enacted, yet unemployment rates are at 9.5% and rising, would you think he lied?

21) ...had seized every opportunity to blame the previous president and administration for just about everything wrong in America, would you have approved?

22) ...ran on a promise of signing no budget or spending bills that contained "pork," then signed a massive spending bill containing over 8,500 earmarks, would you have approved?


i'm just wonderin'.

Dave, I guess we will never agree. you have insulted me several times with your last post. Big bully, being disrespectful when traveling abroad. I was reading an article in the Houston Chron. reported a study compiled from airline co. & hotel employee's last week and do you know who they said were the rudest while traveling abroad hands down, the French. My wifes ancestors were kicked out of Canada 200 years ago (French Acadians) had there land stolen and moved to Louisianna and then moved over here to the Texas Gulf Coast and have been here for 170 years. What do you mean black people here still don't have freedom The President of the United States is a black man what more do you people want. Mr. Corture you can hurl all the insults you want toward this Great Nation we can take it buddy. As insulted as I am by your statements I will refrain from getting in a pissing match with you and I would hope the rest of the Canadian citizens are not as ignorant as you.

JH...um...I don't think his post was meant to be taken personally, in the 1st place. 2nd, he reported what he heard from other ppl, & was not attacking the USA in any way, himself.

I, too, have spoken to many foreigners, & have heard many similar things. That shouldn't insult you, but perhaps it should concern you. When US tourists travel, they have a tendency to laugh at other ppl, to expect special accomodations. They refuse to accept that the rest of the world is different. When they discover this, they say things like "Hey, I'm an AMERICAN!" & expect special treatment, whether it be from a hotel concierge, or a cop on the beat, or whatever. Our tourists have the gall act all offended that the rest of the world doesn't speak English, in many cases!

We may not be as rude as the French, but we're right up there in the top ten (or two), & our gov't's activities often exacerbate the situation in the eyes of other ppls.

The rest of the world has come to expect this type of behavior from us, the laughing, the belittling, the superior attitude. It just doesn't cut it nearly as well when the value of the dollar has dropped so far below their own currencies, & now they're laughing at us, even as they fear us.

They have good reasons to feel as they do about this country. The example mentioned above, where we try to force other countries to keep from developing, in the name of "national security," is but one example. The prudish mentality of our citizens when they visit other countries is another. The way we brag about our country is yet another.

A friend of mine was in the military in the '90's. She was stationed in Germany. There was some sort of event going on that she had to attend, with a lot of dignitaries. The Americans played their national anthem, waved their flag, & then played some country song that bragged about how the USA is the greatest nation in the world & God is on our side & such. Sorry, but I think that is in way poor taste, but it's typical of the way we as a nation act when we are abroad. "We are the greatest & God is on our side." If another country's ambassadors did that in our land, we would be insulted, to say the least. We have way too much pride, & it shows in myriad ways to the world at large. Yes, they DO see us as "bullies," "rude," "uneducated," & way too proud, & we have no one to blame but ourselves for this. It is, after all, OUR gov't & OUR citizens acting like this.

I hope this, too, doesn't offend you personally, JH, but I felt it should be said in Dave's defense.

J-HALEY

Man, you are getting me all wrong, again. Take the time to read, before getting pissed at the first thing you see you don't like.

Again, THOSE are the things ppl from different countries have told me, read this part of my post VERY carfully:

Being Canadian and sharing border with the US, I was often asked what I thought of Americans, by different ethnicity when I was in college and when I visited other countries. I got to hear a lot of what they had to say about America. So, in a respectful attempt to answer one of your question about why the "world" dislike the US, I will give you the most common comments that I remember:

- behave in a disrespectful manner when visiting other countries...very frequent, apparently!
- tell the world what to do, then turn around and do the opposite
- big bully
- think that USA is better than everybody else, and like reminding the world of it (in your face attitude)
- tells the world that they are the world's police and they stands for freedom, while they have a long history of slavery and torture of the African-Americans. Even today, the black American isn't totally free in his OWN country (at least, not free of prejudice).

AGAIN, J, THESE ARE NOT FROM ME!!!!!!!!


Personally, I never incounter Americans who behaved badlly in Canada and other parts of the world AND, like I said MULTIPLE TIMES, I love America and I have many great American friends. So, stop assuming that I’m trashing America and take the time to read my post, before replying to my post in a disrepectfull manner. And, please, stop pretending that the USA is “flawless”. Every country has its good things, and its bad things. Pretending that a country “never” do anything bad, is just being naïve (no disrespect).

Humm, I am only responsible for my own actions.
I accept responsibilty for my Governments actions by voting.
If I am betrayed, I am not responsible for being betrayed, unless I vote for the traitor again.
To generalise about a people by geographic boundaries is foolishness.
Albeit a foolishness I have been guilty of myself.

My wifes ancestors were kicked out of Canada 200 years ago (French Acadians) had there land stolen and moved to Louisianna and then moved over here to the Texas Gulf Coast and have been here for 170 years.

Again, you and I have more in common, than you think I'm half Acadian (dad) and half Quebecer (mom). I know A LOT about my history and I can tell you that it was NOT Canada, per say, who kicked out the Acadians, but the British, after they had conquer the Altantic Provinces (Acadie). Here, in Canada, we only blame Britain for the Great Displacement (how it's called), not the Canadian Government. In fact, Acadians had requested that the Queen apologies for the treatment of the Acadians, just a few years ago. She did come and she did "apologies"...even if many thought it wasn't much of an apology.

Today, the city of Dieppe (NB) has become the "New Acadie". We are an ethnic group, without a real land, but Dieppe has done a lot to make Acadians feel like they have a home, a place to belong, again.

Also, we are still having quite a few disputes between French-Canadian and English Canadian. This is something that will never go away, I'm afraid!

See, I can recognize the good things about my country, just like I can recognize the bad things!!!

When speaking to someone from another country, I always try to be on my best behavior, and it pays off in a small way. For one thing, it usually surprises them and they let me know. Face it, us poor people are a lot more respectful of others than the rich. I know this is a generalization, but poor people don't do much worldwide traveling (unless they win free trips on the Jerry Springer Show), so it's the more smug well offs that are representing us around the world. The other day, I had a telemarketer call. Usually, I just hang up, but this time I let him talk a bit. He was from India, but spoke English really well. I told him I wasn't going to buy anything and he kept on about it being a free vacation. Then I told him my situation, how little I lived on, and that I wouldn't be interested even if it were completely free with no strings attached. I told him I was semi retired and just living off of music with no hand outs (even though I have qualified for several years now). Turns out he is somewhat of a musician (Indian drums) and we talked about that and other things. I complimented him on his English and told him that if I went to some other country, I would have to find an interpreter to even get by, as I didn't speak any other language. He totally stopped with the sales pitch and just had a regular conversation with me. At the end, he asked if he could call me back sometime, just as a friend, and I told him, "Sure, anytime". It left me with a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that, in some small way, I had changed someone's view of "All Americans".

That will do more good than all the presidential visits ever could Rat.
Right on man.

I hope the ol boy dont get sacked for breaking policy.

For those who care to know what other counties think of our health care system here it is; they say our health care is barbaric and uncivilized, human suffering should not be a source of revenue to be traded on wall street, people’s health should not be treated as product to be bought sold and traded on the stock market, I heard more but smart people got the idea of what the rest of civilized and industrialized world think of us.

Well said SD ... and is a big part of the root problem with your HC.

The problem is this system is very entrenched in the US, with deep roots, so it will be near impossible to change. There are so many with a vested interest in it not changing, and I not just talking about the big insurers and HMO's. ... as they say .... absolute power corrupts absolutely

From my view as an outsider, with many friends in the US that I've know since the early 70's. I have notice a marked change is the last 10 yrs, I guess maybe since 9/11.

The political landscape is meaner with attacks from radical groups that have the money to spread misinformation around the nation and move a great number of people to sway their vote. The other thing is, that the politics seem to be more polarized, more radical and the extremists (minority) seem to have a louder voices than the centrists (majority) have. This maybe be the falt of 24/7 news reporting .... but it has some bad consequences for the majority ppl in the US.

Someone posted that he is responsible for his actions and only responsible for his governments actions when he votes. To me that couldn't be farther from the true. It's your job to hold your government to task ... it's something that use to happen in the US but I've seen very little out cry from the ppl against the way their country is being run and some of the deceit and revoked freedoms that the US government has done. I thought there would be a revolt, or at lest a lot of screaming from a majority of US citizens, after the patriot act and other bills the were passed … but it never happened and I can’t figure out why. Back in the 70's the ppl would not stand for it.

I don't know what the answer is ... maybe more independents that don’t go with the party line thinking and start thinking for yourselves, here in Canada there are very few ppl belong to a political party we are mostly independent and vote for the party with the best plan … I’m not say this is perfect but the governing party sure pays attention to what the majority of the people are thinking … and god … shorten up the election to 4 months max … LOL

Very good and for the most part civil discussion.

Ron

I for one do not believe you can seperate healthcare and profit.
Even in the "social" systems there are people who profit doing healthcare.
I as a Nurse profit by doing heathcare.
To eleminate "undue" profits would be a honorable goal.
Perhaps I am a pessimest. I just cant fathom a commercial or political system of heathcare, free of greed and coruption.
Not to be rude, but surely there are people stuffing tax dollars into their pockets in the "social" systems, just the same way they constantly lie and steal from the medicare system here.
Remember, I see the "canned" History and Physicals the doctors write to satisfy the required "verbage" to get payment for the hospitals.

Here is an example:

The first paragraph of the assessment stated that the "client" was totally disoriented to self, time, place and person.
The last paragraph stated how this "client" agreed to "participate in the care plan process".

Hint: Totally disoriented to self, time, place, and person means.

Crazy as hell !!
And this is occuring inside the already "socalised" version of American healthcare.