General Music Chat

Property taxes should be outlawed, period.

Does anyone know of a county that doesn't operate on property taxes?

I work for a county government, and right now I don't think we could function without property taxes. It's how we get the vast majority of our revenue. If there's a county operating without property taxes and using something else for a revenue stream, I'd sure like to see it. I'd be interested in their income model.

It's fun and all to say "outlaw property taxes", but dang... do you know what the county does? Do you know what would happen if we took that money away?

Here's a short list:

1) We'd have to lay off the judges and prosecutors. So we couldn't prosecute any crimes in the county.

2) That would be okay, because we'd have to layoff the sheriff and deputy staff. So we couldn't arrest anyone in the first place.

2.a) We'd have to layoff the Jail staff as well and either let the current prisoners go or just let 'em die. And without a Sheriff staff, judges or prosecutors, we wouldn't get any more offenders, so we could just tear the jail down or use it for poor housing.

3) We'd have to lay off the people in the DMV - so there wouldn't be anyone to license a new automobile or boat.

4) That's fine, because we'd have to lay off the road department too, so no more winter snow removal and no more county road repair. Without road repair no one would want to drive their new car on the roads anyway. I guess everyone could go live in the city instead.

5) We'd have to lay off the coroner, but it's not like we'd need him since there wouldn't be a sheriff to arrest people and a court to prosecute them, so the coroner wouldn't really be necessary. Just leave 'em where they lay.

6) We'd have to lay off the Assessor (no more need if we're not taking property taxes), and certainly the Treasurer (no need if we're not getting income and we'd just declare bankruptcy for bills we owe).

7) Lay off the county fire department as well, so all the homes would go up in flames, but who really cares, because there's no property taxes anyway; those homes don't really need any such protection anyway.

So hell yeah - property taxes should be outlawed.

Like livin' in the old west in the 1800s..

This is why I said all government officials (even local) should be closely watched on their spending. I know we need property taxes, but we don't need to be taxed to death so that government employees (in higher offices, of course) can have extravagant trips and dinners, and salaries. If government spending could be cut, our taxes could be cut...that simple. Maybe taxes should be adjusted to what areas are actually getting some work done. I live on a gravel road and have to put up with dust and wear and tear on my vehicles, and flat tires from them dragging the ditches when they DO grade the road (it pulls up nails and glass from the ditches and spreads them back on the road). Why should my tax money go to resurface perfectly good streets just because someone more important lives there? I guess I can't complain too much because I don't pay THAT much while others pay more in property taxes than I earn in a year. Most of the problem with our country still always goes back to government spending and government waste.

what ever happened to the idea of "public" government watchdog groups?
Power corrupts and if WE don't keep our eye on them, it's inevitable!

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"It is what it is"

what ever happened to the idea of "public" government watchdog groups?

The government didn't think it would be a good idea.

LOL

what ever happened to the idea of "public" government watchdog groups?

That would be the local newspaper. But they're not entirely unbiased...

Governments have a responsibility to divulge information and are actually a lot more public about what they're doing than you might guess. Local governments especially.

I'll give you an example of something I learned while working at our local county government that I didn't previously know:

We have a board of county commissioners (like most counties). I did not know this, but when a "majority" get together it is a called a quorum. If the quorum is discussing county business, they have to hold a public meeting. Our county only has three commissioners, so if two of them want to actually talk government business together, they have to hold a public meeting about the subject.

Read that again. They have to hold a public meeting.

Try and get anything accomplished in that sort of bureaucracy. It's lunacy - but it's so the public knows.

But of course, what's amazing about this aspect of government is that hardly anyone shows up to the meetings. The simple truth is that you can rant and rail against the government all you want, but most people don't care. They aren't interested. If they really cared they'd show up to the public meetings and actually get involved and learn how the government is operating.

Another thing I learned working for my local county government is this (something most people don't realize): the government is comprised of (gasp!) human beings, just like you and me. And guess what? They tend to agree on things just about as much as you and me!

Which is to say - not very often. It's not one monolithic mindset with a singular purpose to waste your tax money. Believe it or not there are a lot of money-aware people in county government, and a lot of people with their hearts in the right place. But due to bureaucracy, or conflicting interested, or political infighting, or just plain stubbornness or stupidity, the good and smart people don't always get their way. They don't always win.

And it's hard to get rid of the bad eggs. Government is worse than the private sector in this regard - it is very difficult to fire people who refuse to work more efficiently or who purposely undermine the efforts of other people.


Anyway... it's more complex than people realize. But the bottom line is that governments are very public entities, and you actually have an opportunity (lots of them really) to know what's going on and learn about how your local governments are operating. Your local paper should have a beat reporter (or two or three) whose job is to cover the county and city governments. You should know what's going on, you should have access to meetings and agendas and you should have the opportunity to be aware of the business of your local government.

But you have to be PROACTIVE. The government doesn't have the staff or budget to spoon-feed you information. Heck - a lot of local papers barely have the staff or budget to do it on the public's behalf.

Actually, local governments are set up to waste money in some ways. My dad was Mayor of Ozark for one term (he had never been in politics in his life, but was tired of the way things were going. He LOVES Ozark and wanted the best for it. And he's a very honest man) and found out a lot about government spending. Local governments are allotted just so much money each year, and if they don't spend all of it, they don't get as much next year, so they end up spending a lot frivolously just so they don't lose any for the next year. This causes a lot of waste, but I can see that their hands are tied because of the way it is set up. One of the first things my dad did in office was to look at the city loan (cities are always in debt due to loans). He simply refinanced the city loan to a lower interest rate and saved the city thousands of dollars. This hadn't been done before as far as anyone knew. But, not being a career politician, he just looked at it like anyone else concerned about their own money. He did more for Ozark in his 4 years than anyone else had in the past 50. At election time, he was beat by a previous mayor who took everything back to the old ways. Ozark has a lot of older citizens who frown on change.

That is true of grants, typically. If you get a grant for something, you need to make use of it.

But most city and county governments don't *have* to spend money - they can (and do) keep reserves.

And remember - local government is actually a non-profit organization. They aren't supposed to make profits like a commercial enterprise...

-except for lining their pockets..

I don't go to political meetings because it makes about as much sense as me trying to explain to them how a field effect transistor works. Every proffesion has its own language.
I memorized a couple of lines from a ceo guy giving a speech where I used to work. He talked of "core revenue growth, strategic global marketing platforms and metrics" and as I was snoozing off, I realized that to them, it must mean something.. I guess I should have studied "political science" - now there's an oxymoron..
The politician doesnt care why or how his tv or radio works, if its broken, he just wants it fixed. He doesnt want to have to go take a course in electronic repair. The reverse should be true, but unfortunally it's not..

poli-tick's; blood sucker's!

www.myspace.com/blunderingeye
www.myspace.com/445175001
http://ezfolk.com/audio/Hayden_King/
twitter.com@HaydenKing
Facebook group/Hayden King

"It is what it is"

Woah, the whole low carb thing makes the nurse and the kung fu in me shrink in fear. Look up ketoacidosis, and dont have a heart attack when you see what it does to your body.
My diet is poor these days. When I was at my peak I used the Sun Trace
method. Or a modified version, I am an omnivore I wont give up meat.
Carbs are best reserved for before and at noon.
Fruit and stuff in am. Potatos / pasta kinda stuff around noon.
Heavier on protien in the evening to rebuild the muscle I tear down during the days of training.
If my working life schedule permitted, I would opt for the hunter gatherer method 7-10 small meals through out the day coupled with continous exercise.
We were designed to walk miles between meals of carbs and chase our protien.
Oh to be wild and free again.

who else is a ron pual supportter here?
or just needing a third party to bring REAL change in.

I laugh how 200+ year old partys think they can bring change, their as old as the hills, theres no change in that.

meh you wouldn't need property taxes if they would stop giving businesses like Wal-Mart and Target tax-free incentives to build stores. If that practice was outlawed, they wouldn't be forcing local politicians to compete with neighboring townships for the sheer pleasure of having a wal-mart move in. It's insulting. Business taxes should be able to support a community, outside of schools, which should be supported by state and federal taxes.

Let's be honest, more than 80% of tax money is completely wasted, and I think that's a conservative number... There's no reason to continue to tax residential properties, unless you count greed.

Of course, this is "in a perfect world" lol, but isn't that what this thread is about?