General Music Chat

Hi BandMix forums,

I've been around for a while but never did a whole lot of posting. It seems there are plenty of very experienced musicians here, though, so I figure I'd better immerse myself a bit if I wanna' improve. I've got a couple of questions for you all if you don't mind sharing your expertise, but first a bit of background so you'll know just how dumbed down you'll need to make your answers. :P

I've been playing guitar on and off since I was about 14. I'm 24 now, and while that normally should mean I'm awesome, it was very on and off. Did the garage band thing in high school and enjoyed that quite a bit. Never got too technical, always played for fun. Anyway, recently I've decided that I want to get back into all of that, but I've switched over to bass, and would like to get on my way to taking it to the next level. I know next to nothing about amps, stage equipment, other stuff like that - all I know is what I taught myself by messing around in my spare time. The current plan is to make sure I play every single day, maybe learn one new song a day, and find a good teacher to take some in-depth lessons from.

So, to start off ... assuming my goal is to join a band that is able to play small venues, what gear should I expect to have? I'm starting from scratch here with a Squier P-Bass and a little practice amp to tide me over, but am prepared to drop a little money on whatever I need. I've heard and read about 4x12, 2x15, monitors, any number of things, but I'm finding I really don't know what my (tangible) goals should be, and a lot of that sort of talk goes right over my head. What actual equipment do I need to advance past "for fun"?

If it helps, I like mostly Alternative Rock and Heavy Metal, and whatever I get, I would like to match that sort of tone. Specific models for bass amps, basses and the like are great if you can provide them.

Thanks in advance!

I've been playing bass for thirty years. I'm self taught. Most of the time I have no idea about what I'm doing technically. The only lesson I ever had was right at the beginning by a guitarist who played some bass. He showed me some finger techniques to economize my playing all four strings without moving around too much on the neck. Concentrate on using all four strings without having to move your hand up and down the neck. Learn to utilize all four fingers and thumb when playing. I've seen a fair number of people who don't use their pinky finger for example. I don't use a pick on the bass, but that's a matter of personal preference. I've seen pick bass players who can play rings around me. As far as buying an amp or bass that's also a matter of personal preference. I happen to like Fender basses. Some people can't stand them. What feels the best in your hands and is the easiest to play is important, BUT what it sounds like is even more important. You want to put the best sound out there and again that's what YOU think sounds the best. The last time I bought an amp I took my bass into three different music stores and then I had the salesman plug me into all the bass amps with my back turned so I didn't know which amp I was plugged into. I played through each one and got a blind taste test. I have no brand affiliation, I wanted to hear what sounded the best to me without knowing what I was playing through. My favorite was the Peavey TNT 115. It gave me the best tone for the music I play. Again, it's what sounded the best to my ears. What's amazing is I've hosted a number of jam sessions in the past and other people playing my bass through my amp sound like sh*t. Everybody has a different touch on their instruments, You're going to have to experiment. Some bassists prefer playing through ten inch speakers. I can't stand playing through tens. I don't get enough bottom. In my opinion one fifteen inch speaker beats playing through ten ten inch speakers. Since you're switching from guitar to bass you might like the tens better. You also might play your bass like a guitarist. I play with the heaviest strings I can find. If they could put power lines on a bass I'd buy them. I want BOTTOM. The genre of music you enjoy might lend itself to a lighter touch. This is all about YOU and what YOU like. LISTEN to the tone. Is it YOU? If not try another bass and amp. Good luck...

Here are some recommendations for any person learning to play bass. Learn both the major and minor scales as a start and then add the dominate 7th chord (the 7th is played flat). Almost all rock and roll and blues use the dominate 7th chord so the bass should play it as well. The next step is to learn the triads (root, third and fifth) and then start playing them in different orders going both up (1, 3, 5) and down (1, 5, 3). Also learn what chord symbols mean so that the bass line can follow what the guitars are doing, such as diminished 5 (play the 5th flat). It is amazing how many guitar players don’t realize that bass players need to know this information. There are a couple of good books to help you learn walking bass lines. As a former guitarist you have an advantage in that you can look at the rhythm guitarists fingers and figure out the chord he is playing (good for jams or if you get lost). If you don’t know the chord pattern on guitar it is a good idea to learn them. One area that most bass books are remiss on is technique. Don’t hold the neck in a death grip, your thumb should rest in the middle (cross-ways) of the neck so that your fingers can cross the fret board without having to move your thumb, and don’t curl your hand. Just slid your fingers to the string you need to play. This allows for very efficient playing and adds to speed. As for equipment, buy what you think sounds good and is comfortable. Personally, I play a Federal Jazz Bass and through a Gallien Kruger amp. I also like the sound of the Gibson Thunderbird but find it is too heavy for a full night of gigging. At good amp for clubs is the Ampeg combo. Note, more is not necessarily better. Yes, four 10” or 12” speakers look good, but you also have to lug the cabinet up stairs and on to stages. A two 10” or 12” cabinet sounds just as good and weighs almost half as much. The same applies to wattage. An Ampeg with 100 watts is sufficient. You can always move up if you become successful.

Well, I'm a guitarist, but I play bass occasionally. I have several different bass amps for different size venues. I got them because they were really good deals, but if I were a full time bass player, I would get myself one of the kick-back models. One problem that inexperienced bass players have is they buy a combo amp that sits flat on the floor and (unless it's a large stage) the sound hits them around their calves so they turn up until it sounds good to them, but it's a bit loud out front (bass can really carry). The kick-back models can be set aiming right where the bassist can hear it best and most have an XLR out to run to the board so that it can be set evenly in the front mix. I know, I know...some guitarists have this same problem. But you'll see most experienced guitarists using a smaller combo amp, usually have an amp stand or lean it back to aim up at them. That's the same principle as the bass kick-back model. Price ranges will vary along with sound, so check out several. Hartke, Fender, Behringer, etc. You'll find yourself hearing the bass better and not driving your fellow bandmates crazy.

If you want to "get more serious" to the point where you can find your way into a band, then here's what I would suggest.

Keep in mind, my point of reference is this: I am currently in a band, and we've been looking for a bass player for a long time. We've tried out quite a few people and for different reasons they haven't worked out. So that's the point of view and where my advice comes from.

For starters, be able to learn songs quickly. And nothing can teach you how to learn a song quickly like learning songs.

I was just like you 18 month ago: a hobbiest guitar player. I decided it was the right time in my life to get involved with a band, so I hooked up with a drummer and we started figuring out what songs we wanted to cover. Learning cover songs took me straight out of my comfort zone; I had to learn all sorts of songs I wasn't familiar with. I had to learn chords that I never used before, solos I never felt confident playing. But I had to learn it to be in the band, and I had to perform well to stay in the band.

When I first started in the band, I could learn songs, but it was hard work. I would often screw up chords or solos, and it could take me a while to perfect a song. Now, I can learn songs much faster and I learn solos faster too. And I think the reason I can do it better now is because I've been exposed to a whole bunch of music I would have never gone out and learned on my own. I've learned a lot of songs in the past year, and now when I am given a new song to learn, I have a system for how to learn it, tools that I know how to use to help me learn it, and I have an approach that works for me.

What you have to do, to be in a band, is figure out what works for you, so that you can learn songs quickly and get them right.

The second thing you have to do is pack the gear. Nothing is more disappointing than bringing in a bass player for an audition, and the guy is packing a combo amp with two 8-inch speakers. Ugh. No punch whatsoever.

In a band situation you have to compete with the drums and guitar. You have to be heard. You have to be able to get in sync with the drummer, and if he can't hear you because your gear isn't up to snuff, then it's not going to work.

So when you go out to try out amps and drop some money on a rig, make sure you get something that you can GIG with. Something that packs some punch and can keep up with the rest of the band.


You've already said you want to take lessons, and I would encourage you to do so. That's a smart move. And if you're learning new songs on your own you will be exposed to passages and techniques you may not be comfortable playing, and that's where having an instructor is really going to help. He/She will be able to teach you the proper way to tackle a lot of stuff.

I'd also recommend investing in a couple of pieces of software. Guitar Pro is about $50 and it's totally worth the investment. A lot of guitar pro scores that you can find on places like Ultimate-Guitar are complete, meaning they have guitars, drums and bass. Guitar Pro is a great tool because the files are essentially midi, so you can slow down certain passages to learn them. It also has a loop tool, so you can highlight a portion of a score and loop it over and over, and play along with it. The loop tool can also be used as a "speed trainer", so you can loop a difficult passage and get up to speed by playing along with the speed trainer. It will increment the speed each time it loops. Very handy for difficult parts. And of course, you can mute the other instruments in the score so you only hear the bass. Not all scores come with bass, of course, but a lot too, and I find the tool very useful.

Also, something like Transcribe! can be very useful as well. Again, another software program that runs about $50, but I use it so much I consider it worth the investment. It lets you take an audio MP3/MP4 and slow it down without changing the pitch. So you can play along to the real music of a song and learn parts that way. It also has the ability to loop a selection of music (useful on guitar for learning leads, but certainly useful on bass as well to learn complex parts). Caveat: it will not work on music downloaded through iTunes, so you have to burn the music to a CD and then re-import it through iTunes to get the iTunes protection off it. But once you do that, Transcribe is a dream. You can even use it on videos downloaded through YouTube.

If you pack the gear and can learn songs quickly you can be a valuable member of a cover band. You don't need to know music theory to do covers; just be able to learn a song as it is written. But if you are also taking lessons and are learning music theory then you can be a valuable member of an original band as well.

The big thing is: You gotta be prepared. If you go to audition with a band and they need you to learn songs X, Y and Z, then you have to be able to learn those songs on short notice (usually), and play them as well as possible. If you are prepared, come to an audition with your sh*t together, and can prove that you can learn songs quickly, you will never be out of a job. (Of course, keep a minimum ego as well, but I don't sense any ego from you, so nothing to worry about).

Good luck!

I'm a flutist but I can so relate to where you are at right now. I majored in music in college then dumped it and later I became a "hobbyist". Now I am the musician that I dreamed of being as a kid. I can't advise you as far as guitaristics ( I made that up ) in your career but I can encourage you to go in the direction of your dreams. Play every day and get a good studio instructor. I bet a lotta guys here are happy that you are polishing up the bass since good bass players are hard to find. If you continue to increase your ability on your ax, you will find groups coming to you instead of the other way around.

Garage bands are the best. They allow you to just hang out with your friends and brush up skills. I always encourage my studets to seek out that type of venue. I imagine my students getting together with themselves, outside of my studio, and working on ensemble pieces. That is where the real musicianship lies your willingness to work with people. That's is why I form flute choirs with my students. They won't go out on their own and do flute quartet music or anything like that. But when I get them to do it, it works well. Also, I push them to do a various collection of music including rock and jazz. The finished product is to get the same charge from performing various musical genres and feeling comfortable within them. Become comfortable and ready for all possibilities, afterall money spends regardless of your preferred genre so don't become comfortable in one. One comparison is a guy I know, Jeff Bremer, who plays bass in his reggae band. He also plays string bass in the orchestra AND he plays bass in his own jazz quartet. Move beyond the sky.

Thanks for the responses. Admittedly a lot of the scale names, I'm not too familiar with, but that's nothing a quick Google search won't solve I guess! I've heard good things about the Ampeg BA115, which is a kick-back model if I remember correctly. Just one speaker, but it's a big one, so it should serve.

I'm actually very familiar with Guitar Pro - I've been using it since high school to write songs, and the band I was in used it to learn the songs we wrote. It was pretty awesome to get to a session and not have to actually teach anyone how to play anything, even though it was an original. By the time shows came around (We never played for an audience of more than 50), everything worked out alright, though our stage performance/presence was pretty lacking.

What do you bass players typically do to warm up before you start grinding the song-learning?

Warm up? The entire song is in my head before I play it. It's already done, all I have to do is show it to the other band members. Besides, warming up takes time away from fishing...

Just freakin do it.

Yea BABY, ROCKIN ROLL !!!!

I've put up a few older tracks I did with my band in high school for anyone who might be interested in seeing about where I'm at. They were completely amateur recorded in a friend's basement, so expect a horrible mix and some hilariously embarrassing/cheesy lyrics.

I promise I'm a better musician nowadays, but I still consider myself very much "for fun," with hopes of Amateur status very soon.

Until you get in that band, get your chops up by learning & experimenting in different genres. Study the "classics" - blues greats, Motown, Entwistle, McCartney, etc. Then go to open mics & learn to jam on the spot from chord charts or helpful folk. Here's where you find how well you can apply what you've learned on the fly.

You can upgrade your Squire by changing the entire guts & pick guard rather cheaply, too, with real "P" works. You'll probably try a lot of different strings until you find what you like, & that can get pricey. Try other ppl's axes out whenever you can, & ask what they use, to help you make good decisions in this area.

Amps? Play a lot of them with your axe at music stores, & don't neglect pawn shops. Good deals can be found there & elsewhere. You'll find that most venues don't need the huge equipment that the pros use in stadium settings.

It's true that combo amps don't allow you to hear your playing in a band situation. I've been dealing with that for over ten years, but it's working for me. I've never had a wedge amp. Remember that you won't hear what the audience hears. Bass sounds don't really come together until they're, like, 10-15 feet from the speakers. So it's real easy to be too loud at 1st, or to have odd tones, until you get used to it. Tweak your tones while someone else plays your stuff until you find what you like. Walk away & listen to it at a distance before you settle into a sound.

Bass sounds don't really come together until they're, like, 10-15 feet from the speakers. So it's real easy to be too loud at 1st, or to have odd tones, until you get used to it. Tweak your tones while someone else plays your stuff until you find what you like. Walk away & listen to it at a distance before you settle into a sound.

Great advice, Philby!

Thanks for the responses. Admittedly a lot of the scale names, I'm not too familiar with, but that's nothing a quick Google search won't solve I guess!

Most, if not all of the professional bass players I have worked with have a basic understanding of Music Theory. This allows them to cognitively make harmonies with bass lines other than playing the root notes. The great bass players like Stu Ham, Billy Sheehan, Nathan East and Jaco Pastorius have some type of music theory background. Music Theory allows you to convey your ideas to other musician verbally and through paper.

Here are some Mode names on the major scale that are used extensively in western music:

1 ) Ionian (Major Scale) = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
2 ) Dorian = 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7
3 ) Phrygian (Spanish sounding) 1, b2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7
4) Lydian = 1, 2, 3, b4, 5, 6, 7
5) Mixolydian (Dominant jazz like scale) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, b7
6) Aeolian (Natural Minor) 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, b7
7) Locrain (Half Diminished) 1, b2, b3, 4, b5, b6, b7

you can google those names for a start and you may find some positions for them on the bass neck.

good luck bro!

Thanks for the responses. Admittedly a lot of the scale names, I'm not too familiar with, but that's nothing a quick Google search won't solve I guess! I've heard good things about the Ampeg BA115, which is a kick-back model if I remember correctly. Just one speaker, but it's a big one, so it should serve.

What's up Thrage?!?! I would say welcome, but you've been here longer than me; feel free to join us anytime.

I'm a studio session bassist, and I own an Ampeg BA115HP, which is pretty much the same as the BA115, but with 220w as opposed to 100w. From the sounds of it, the BA115 should do just fine for you. If you are playing at a venue, or if you join a band with PA, you can run right through the PA via the XLR output or mic the 15" woofer. This way, you don't have to worry about a bigger rig for now.

What do you bass players typically do to warm up before you start grinding the song-learning?

I absolutely agree with jsantos -- LEARN YOUR SCALES AND MODES and do them during your woodshed time. This is your next step from here. You will never sit in the studio or band practice and think to yourself, "I'm going to do a Locrian run here." It sounds cool, but that isn't necessarily what these modes are meant for. Rather, this will get you familiar with the fingerboard from top to bottom, and it will give you insight as you're playing as to where you need to play (where in the scale/key of the song, and where on the fingerboard).

I hope this is helpful. Have a good one!

Yeah, learning your fretboard is key. For guitarists and bassists.

Most of the bass players I've worked with want to know what key a song is in. You tell 'em the key, they know where they can (and should) go on the fretboard, and where to avoid.