General Music Chat

Sorry to sound harsh, just thought some honesty was needed on this subject.

I don't think your answers sound harsh at all.

Other than that, sometimes, after a year, if a band just can't seem to find the right members, I'd be wondering if it was meant to be.

I could have said the same thing about my college degree. I failed one particular class three times (requirement). After the second time failing that particular class, most people in my field change majors. I didn't. I'm a persistent guy; I get what I go after.

maybe it's just me, but if I put a band together, I'd expect them to be ready to play out (2 sets, at least) within 6 weeks.

I think that's a more than fair expectation.

And today, with tab so readily available on the internet, I don't see how anyone could NOT get down a buttload of songs and work them out in a few practices and be ready to go.

Get this - I've had a bass player who couldn't use a computer. Wanted me to provide him with lyric sheets with the root notes above them. So, I did that. Next bass player - same thing. Didn't want to learn the songs on his own, just wanted me to provide him with charts.

That being said, when you lay that expectation on people, you really find out who is and who isn't truly committed to getting out and playing.

Some guys secretly never want to play out, they just want to stay in the garage forever.

Haha... So true. I think we've discovered that in the past with a few people.

Also being in multiple projects helps keep things in perspective, you should try that also if you aren't already.

I'll think about that, but again - this area is limited. And I've got my hands pretty full running this band. We're starting to write original material now, and I'm really enjoying that. I'm spending more and more time at home now writing and arranging stuff that comes out of the rehearsal sessions.

maybe it's just me, but if I put a band together, I'd expect them to be ready to play out (2 sets, at least) within 6 weeks.

I know it's a rough timeline, but I can learn and memorize 20+ songs a week, and I've met enough pros that can do the same.. it's all about commitment. And today, with tab so readily available on the internet, I don't see how anyone could NOT get down a buttload of songs and work them out in a few practices and be ready to go.

I think that if you have established professionals, and you will be playing jazz standards, top 40 pop, or a confirmed set list..... all you need to do is show up with the sheet music and rehearse the night before the performance. Many jobbers do this during corporate events, weddings, gala events, fundraisers...etc.


When you are playing originals, depending on how musically and technically demanding the material is, it can take longer than 6 weeks.

When you are playing originals, depending on how musically and technically demanding the material is, it can take longer than 6 weeks.

Not really, one of my bands is originals, and I had to transcribe a lot of piano to guitar, which is no easy feat.. Still managed just under 30 songs in as many days, and we (guitar , bass, drums) all learned, memorized, and even re-wrote parts as needed for a release party. Can't say it was perfect, but it went pretty damn good.

My point being, seasoned players can do it if they dare to challenge themselves to rise above - and want it enough. The only people who can't do it either lack the skill, or take a defeatist attitude and fail before they ever started.

I could have said the same thing about my college degree. I failed one particular class three times (requirement). After the second time failing that particular class, most people in my field change majors. I didn't. I'm a persistent guy; I get what I go after.

Yeah, that is a subjective argument - no right or wrong

Get this - I've had a bass player who couldn't use a computer. Wanted me to provide him with lyric sheets with the root notes above them. So, I did that. Next bass player - same thing. Didn't want to learn the songs on his own, just wanted me to provide him with charts.

That's just messed up. I don't think I'd have the tolerance to deal with that kind of stuff these days lol. You are a better man than I am.

Good luck with it, I hope it works out, keep pushing to play out!

Ok, I have one other alternative....ask a friend or relative how is not part of the band to become your booking agent. This person should be of a professional level and know the brilliance of Bullshitting...you know, like used car salesmen....this takes the heat off you, as a band member, and also makes it look as though your have your ducks in a row. Plus, removes all the headaches of having to book gigs, practice, play gigs, get paid, etc...your booking agent takes care of all that. I am sure if you are a well established band you have a following and most of your close friends are part of that. They would probably be THRILLED to do this...just make sure you pick the right person. somebody who is even-tempered and can talk the talk...

It's just a thought........

Ok, I have one other alternative....ask a friend or relative how is not part of the band to become your booking agent. This person should be of a professional level and know the brilliance of Bullshitting...you know, like used car salesmen....this takes the heat off you, as a band member, and also makes it look as though your have your ducks in a row. Plus, removes all the headaches of having to book gigs, practice, play gigs, get paid, etc...your booking agent takes care of all that. I am sure if you are a well established band you have a following and most of your close friends are part of that. They would probably be THRILLED to do this...just make sure you pick the right person. somebody who is even-tempered and can talk the talk...

It's just a thought........

I don't mind doing the legwork actually. When I took the strengths finder test a couple years ago, Woo (http://gmj.gallup.com/content/721/Woo.aspx) was one of my top five. I have no problem meeting new people and getting to know them. I've got a fairly open type A personality; outgoing, extroverted.

The reason I posted was that I was more interested in knowing if the behavior of the radio station program coordinator was a typical thing or not. And Kramerguy pretty much answered that question; he's lost count, he says, of the number of people who haven't called him back. So, while it is disappointing to experience, it appears it is fairly normal in this business.

In my industry, and what I'm used to in both a professional and personal capacity, you never run into this situation. People call back. E-mail is used a lot as a surrogate for phones, but even then everyone has a cell phone and we make judicious use of them. Communication is a must in my industry or projects fail. I can't imagine, as a business decision, telling someone I might need them for a project and then not calling back to tell them one way or the other. That just blows my mind, really.

It is what it is. We'll just keep working and start targeting our next gigs.

If she does call back..... at the last minute, desperate for your band to fill the one hour slot. Ask for $1000

If she does call back..... at the last minute, desperate for your band to fill the one hour slot. Ask for $1000

I agree. Scroo them for making u wait!

JW made a very good point in my humble opinion.
Dont burn any bridges!
You may need to walk across it to pop a cap in her ass.

Ok for real man, you know this kind of thing is all part and parcil to the whole gene gig.
Comes with the territory.

I think the best thing to do is walk away. Like George said dont burn bridges, musical circles are small. I definitely wouldnt ask for more money if they did happen to call at the last minute. If you were to get $500 for and hour, that may be the best pay you would ever see on a local cover band level. So if they do call back do the deal for whatever you agreed too. Being this close to the 5th, unless they are just unorganized idiots I would think they already have the time filled.

In the future try to assign one person to handle these things and that person is responsible. In my band Im that guy and I deal with folks all the time telling me they want our band. Almost every gig when we are tearing down someone comes up and says my brother or sister or cousin runs this bar and wants your band. I dont waste a lot of time with them. I hand them a promo kit and tell them to give it to whoever. I then make a trip to the bar or venue to see if it suits our group and try to talk to the person in charge and then hand them another pack cause 9 times out of 10 they didnt get the first one.

Colors, after thinking about this gig a little bit. Do you think this is really a good gig for your band. If I recall you were going to play what you thought a band should play. I mean if you are playing a town 4th of July event, you will have everyone from 1 yr old to 80 there. That is a gig that yuou really need to play the moneymaker songs for. Not to be harsh, but a gig like this for a rock band would mean playing stuff like Mustang Sally, Sweet Home Alabama, Wonderful Tonight, Old Time Rock N Roll. Its not really the same as a rocking college bar, its a whole different animal. If you are going to pursue these types of events you need to be prepared for them. Its pretty bad to bomb in front of a couple of thousand people. I know I booked one of my old metal bands into a gig like this once. It didnt turn out well and also didnt lead to anymore gigs, more or less got me blacklisted from these gigs for afew years. I still hear stuff about that, so think about your song choice for gigs like this. You only have one shot at a first impression.

I hope you wind up getting the gig at the last minute, but I wouldnt expect it, unless you had a handshake and something signed saying you had the gig. On another note there ussually many very good bands that will do gigs like this for free.

The only thing I can really add is that you have to consider this: Especially in a "special event" type of situation, the people in charge have no real "organization" experience, even if that is their "job title". My band played at a festival about a month ago, and you wouldn't believe the issues that arose...The guy in charge wouldn't answer his phone-when we arrived to set up and had questions! Finally someone arrived when people reported that "someone was on the stage." They actually only came by to run us off! Lol!
The braniacs also expected us to run all of our equipment off of ONE outlet...we were playing on the back of a tractor trailer (which they had to move after the parade and before we could set up...we were alloted about 20 minutes to set up and attempt a sound check...then, the guy in charge finally showed up and stood behind us with his arms crossed, like some high school principal.
Why did all of this happen? That's simple. The "coordinator" didn't know what the hell he was doing. Fairs and festivals, in particular, are organized and ran by people who are looking to build their position in society-i.e., city council members, public officials, etc. with the purpose of "adding a notch" to their resume'. These folks know nothing about entertainment. NOTHING.
It really comes down to being the bands' responsibility to make sure that all of their needs are provided for.
Anyway, my long winded point is that, yeah, the person you dealt with was unprofessional-but most of them will be. Most of the "coordinators" you will deal with are really just some soccer dad who took the gig to make points with his boss.

Colors, after thinking about this gig a little bit. Do you think this is really a good gig for your band. If I recall you were going to play what you thought a band should play. I mean if you are playing a town 4th of July event, you will have everyone from 1 yr old to 80 there. That is a gig that yuou really need to play the moneymaker songs for. Not to be harsh, but a gig like this for a rock band would mean playing stuff like Mustang Sally, Sweet Home Alabama, Wonderful Tonight, Old Time Rock N Roll.

I certainly respect your opinion - you are a gigging musician with a boatload of experience.

I just happen to disagree with you 100% on this matter.

I think our set list is (was) good. It's not like we were planning on playing Metallica our Alice in Chains or Rob Zombie or AC/DC (we have that sort of stuff in our repertoire, but that's not what we were bringing to the 4th).

To give you an idea of what we were doing:

Barracuda (Heart), Summer of '69 (Bryan Adams), Open Up Your Eyes (Tonic), Bad Day (Fuel), Count On Me (Default), Higher/MySacrifice combo platter (Creed), Slide (Goo Goo Dolls). So, those songs, and a few others of similar nature.


Everywhere we go, when we go out and meet people, or talk to bar owners, or whoever, and we tell them we're a cover band (although we're starting to pour more and more effort into writing original material), people always ask us the same thing: Are you guys doing anything new? People don't want to hear the same old crap. All the other bands already do that stuff.


Anyway, maybe we'll fall on our face. Maybe you're right. But right now, I don't think so, and neither do my band mates. We've got a lot of passion for what we're doing. If we played the kind of stuff you suggested, we wouldn't be passionate about it at all. Our hearts wouldn't be in it.

I don't ever want to get to the point where I feel like I have to play Song X because someone else (not in the band) thinks that's what we need to play. We're a band, not a jukebox. And I think cover bands that treat themselves like a jukebox and believe that have to be a jukebox to be successful are selling themselves short, and ultimately are playing without passion. You can't put your heart into that. I don't want to lose my heart for music - ever.

CF - I agree with you on tune choice. Looks like you had some good ones picked out to play.

If the songs are good, & were popular within the last 30-40 years, they'll work at festivals & parks & corporate events, as long as they're kid-friendly. It doesn't hafta be SHA to be accepted anymore unless you're playing for a specific group. Many of us have been Sweet Home Alabama'ed to death, but that, too, works in those venues.

However, if you have a reputation for playing stuff that isn't kid friendly, that can be detrimental to getting the festival & "concert in the park series" gigs.

Anyone can see how hard it is to change or overcome a certain rep.

I'm not saying that this was your problem, but it might be something to try to avoid in the future, if you want to play those venues.

If you or any band member have had any experience in the past playing these types of events, you should definitely use that in your attempts to get future gigs at these things.

Just the mere mention of other festivals can do wonders when you're seeking festival work. It tells ppl that you can be appropriate, even if you weren't in the past, sometimes, cuz they often don't check out this stuff.

I'm not saying that this was your problem, but it might be something to try to avoid in the future, if you want to play those venues.

Oh, certainly. We want to do these types of shows and we've got the family friendly tunes to do it. I don't want to establish a reputation as a band that can't do these types of gigs. Our song choices are generally newer, but not metal or vulgar. The stuff we have incorporated into our set lists that has curse words - they are songs a lot of other bands cover, like "Man in the Box", "You Shook Me All Night Long", "Highway To Hell", "Sex Type Thing", etc. And when we knew we had a chance to do this 4th of July gig, that's the FIRST thing we did: go through the set list and eliminate the stuff that even had the slightest possibility of offending someone.

I think the reason we didn't get this gig was simple: they recruited a boatload of acts for the "country showdown" contest. I heard a number around 26. That's a lot of acts to get on and off stage in a few hours. My understanding is that historically they get 7-10 entries for that contest. So the contest runs 7:00pm to 9:00pm and then they book a real band for the final hour leading up to the fireworks. This year they managed to recruit 3x the number of contestants. And so I think they simply don't have the time space to allot for a band.

And I'm FINE with that - I just wanted them to call us back and let us know if that was the case. We always knew that it was a possibility they might not have the time space, because when we talked to the program coordinator she said that her bosses asked her to find more entrants this year. And so I asked her to please call us after she knew if she needed a band or not - one way or the other - so we would know. And she never did that.

And now - I start this thread and people tell me this is normal behavior. And that's great information for us going forward. I will definitely handle these situations a bit differently in the future, knowing that these sort of people in this industry just don't call back and have no idea how to behave professionally.

Years ago I did some theater stuff. I remember being pissed when I didn't get the part & there was no call...

I've gotten used to it since.