General Music Chat

This is a bit lengthy, but I want all the info on the table because I am not sure my own assessment of the situation is the right one.

Our band has been working for the past month on a 14-song set for a 4th of July gig that we heard about through our (then) bassist. It's a big gig here - about 3K people in attendance - and it's only an hour. The band plays the hour leading up to the fireworks. We just got a new drummer and picked the songs we thought would do the best at that sort of show (keeping it family friendly, you know). We've been putting in as many practices as our regular schedules allow.

The gig was never a "done deal", but we had some decent info on it and we were working hard to have a chance to audition for it.

Anyway, I contacted the person in charge of this event - a program coordinator at a local radio station - to get more details on this event (our bass player brought this gig to us; it gets really complicated to explain all of the details and relationships involved with who knows who).

I talked to this program coordinator for about 15-20 minutes last week. The way this 4th of July gig works is for a couple hours they host a country "showdown" contest. A lot of people sign up to compete - they can be individual acts, duos, whole bands, etc. When the contest is over they typically have an hour to kill before the fireworks go off, so they hire a band to do an hour set. That was the gig we were after.

The deadline for the showdown contestants to sign up was last Friday. The program coordinator told me she would know on Monday if she needed a band, because it depended on how many contestants they had signed up for the showdown. If they get a bunch of contestants, they don't need a band to fill the space.

So the part that bugs me: She promised to call me back on Monday and never did. So I called her and left a message. Then another. Then I called Tuesday and left a message. And another. Then I find out she's got an office in a nearby town, so I call that one and leave a message. And I left messages Wednesday, and I called twice this afternoon as well. No replies.

Now, is this acceptable behavior for a program coordinator? Is this something you folks have run into before?

I've heard through a 3rd party that they had a lot of contestants for the "showdown". Based on the numbers I heard, I am guessing they don't need a band for the hour gig. But even so - I expected at least a phone call to tell me, "Hey, we don't have room this year, we won't be booking anyone."

Instead, I get radio silence. And it really, really annoys me. I just don't know how someone who is in a position to run an event like that can totally disregard communicating with us. It is really annoying.

Go over her head and call her boss....that kind of "no response" is unprofessional and rude...and not good publicity for who ever is putting on the show.

You are very right to be annoyed as I would be. Some people just don't have the balls to hand out bad news....

go over her head and make sure she gets the what for by her boss.

I'm with Debbie. It's just plain rude and if you don't say anything she'll more than likely do it to someone else too. I cannot stand this sort of thing, I'd probably complain to anyone connected at the risk of sounding like I'm bleating, but again they would think twice about being arrogant/ignorant to some one else.

I disagree. I wouldn't have called after Monday, or Tuesday at the latest. She is busy, & doesn't like to tell ppl "no." You may seem pushy if you call too much, imo, & yes, she IS unprofssional, but you won't get a consideration from her in future events after you intimidate her by over-calling.

Of course, since she is unprofessional, she prolly won't be in that position in the future, but you never know.

You needed a better "in," as far as I can see. I've run into this sorta thing a few times before. You never really had a chance, is the most likely reason, but when you don't get a call from these idjits, there's no need to rile them by going over their head, cuz that can make you look bad to the higher ups, who WILL be there in the future.

Perhaps you are right Phil, I also agree that probably this was not a starter in the first place in any case too.

However. Gigs and venue reputations go both ways. If you were a touring artist would you consider a place where you were treated like this? I think I would still write a polite letter expressing my discontent at having been treated in this way and also say that I would think twice about applying next time.

Sour grapes, Chippy, & it hurts you if you run into these ppl in any event in the future. I don't like burning bridges.

I could always play a cowbell outside the bookers house

Seriously though this kind of thing bothers me. It was just an hours Gig, once yearly, not the main act, told that they would call. Nah no bridges to burn methinks really. The gain? 3000 people with 10% memories, after all that is all we can take in at any given time.

Perhaps I'll change my view when I don't hear these friggin roosters all day long

Lot's of options here and they all require walking on eggshells. First off, no, she isn't handling it professionally. A lot of people in her position have no idea about bands needing to know in advance so they can get another booking. She's probably having to get everything done herself, such as working with the fireworks people, the country bands in the contest and no telling what else, and so the band that they may or may not need takes the backseat. That's not right, but that's the way people in her position handle things. Getting upset or trying to push the issue isn't going to help. You can sit back and wait for that last minute phone call, or you can try to book something else and, if she calls at the last minute needing you, you can politely say that you had booked something else since she never returned your calls. Even if you do this, chances are she'll tell everyone that you canceled out so as to cover her own a$$. Such is the life of a musician.
I was contacted a couple of years ago by a local woman wanting to know what I would charge for running sound and perhaps my band playing for a Relay For Life benefit that the town was putting on. It's a small town, and I know from experience that the people attending and putting it on were not the people who supported live music in the area, so I wasn't going to do it for free. I told her that usually I charged $400 for sound and usually $200 more for my band, but since it was a benefit, I would do it all for $300. She said that sounded fine and she'd get back with me. Same old story, she never got back on it. Later on I found out that they had gotten in touch with a local guy that did DJ stuff and he was going to do it for $200. I could have gotten upset about them not calling back, but this ain't my first rodeo and I know how people in that position are. They didn't intentionally screw me, they just didn't give me a second thought. The evening of the benefit, I get a call from a different person saying that the DJ was a no show and wondered if I could bring a small PA down so that they could have some music playing and asked what I would charge. I told them that I was busy (which I wasn't) and couldn't do it. Then I sat home and had a couple of cool ones and returned the favor. I didn't give them another thought. I did this all nicely, but showed them they shouldn't wait until the last minute and that you get what you pay for. Since then, that has never happened again, and I do sound for a lot of local festivals even ones involving those same people.
Don't know if this helps, but keep your cool when dealing with locals no matter how rude they are. It can't hurt and usually helps out in the long run.

Oh I am a bridge burner.. (light her up)

And it takes exactly 30 seconds to call and leave a message that you aren't needed for that show. (I timed it)

Faq that stupid sea-hag.

From the other side...


Have you guys ever done bar bookings? I've lost count of how many people don't, and won't call back. There's no forthcomingness anymore, people are frightened little weasels who instead of telling you they aren't interested, will just lead you on, because they are too afraid that you feelings might get hurt, which could ultimately lead to a .. gulp... confrontation. RUN!

Let's face it... people are afraid of confrontations, which is usually what happens when people don't get what they want, so these part-time weasels just blow you off and avoid you. Oftentimes they also just don't have an answer, so they blow you off until they do.

Many of them, sadly, are the go-to people, and all you can do is keep trying, or give up. I've found maybe a 15-20% success rate with keeping on these people, hunting them down, etc...

Is it worth it? Depends on the gig, but sure, it's unprofessional, but it's also the way things roll, and you will hear over and over and over and over from all the pros "develop thick skin", and that advice doesn't just refer to music critics. It refers to everyone and everything that rolls like this topic.

As far as the OP's issue - I'd say fuggit and move on.. You've done all you can do.. if they call you back, well that's fine, and treat them professionally, of course. But if they don't call back, guess what? You've got a solid and well rehearsed hour of music to carry with you going forward - so all you did was prep that you needed to do for a future show anyways.

Make lemonade.

Colors,

My dealings with bigger events, most are ussually booked way in advance. We have a couple of county festivals booked on out in the fall. I would make a couple of calls, but when she said they might not need you, I think that was basically a nice way of telling you no. I know its frustrating. Like Kramer says Ive had at least 30 bar venues in the last year tell me, We want your band real bad. I tell them a price, then I never hear from them again. Is it uprofessional, Yes in my opionion it is, but that doesnt make any real difference. If you are going to pursue events like this in the future I would find some sort of basic performance contract, and read it. We have a bike rally gig tomorrow, outdoors when I signed the little contract I thought it said that they would provide shade for the stage, I reread it and it says that adequate shade would be provided adjacent to the stage area. They want us to set up in the parking lot. Temps tomorrow are supposed to be 100 degrees and humid in my area. Fun Fun Fun

While on this subject, let me add dont put all your eggs in one basket. Im sure this gig was a very motivating factor for your band to get prepped for. Ive been there and done that, but you need more gigs. A lot of the area bands I know try to get gigs in one or two locations, they may even get the gig and do well only to have the bar close or change management and then they have to start all over again. So I would suggest hitting up as many venues or events as you can to try and get some good slots. Ive seen bands get so frustrated over losing a single gig that their band fell apart.

Good Luck with your band and sorry this happened, but it happens all the time. I am in a fairly established band in my area and deal with this kind of treatment constantly.

So the part that bugs me: She promised to call me back on Monday and never did. So I called her and left a message. Then another. Then I called Tuesday and left a message. And another. Then I find out she's got an office in a nearby town, so I call that one and leave a message. And I left messages Wednesday, and I called twice this afternoon as well. No replies.

Now, is this acceptable behavior for a program coordinator? Is this something you folks have run into before?

That is unprofessional for her to do.

Your band is a fill-in for a time slot that might not even happen.

I would suggest to wait and be prepared for a call that might come at the last minute. To be asked to perform at the least possible time of notice.


Good luck I hope you get a call back.

How much are you getting paid for a 3K attendance?

That is unprofessional for her to do.

Your band is a fill-in for a time slot that might not even happen.

I would suggest to wait and be prepared for a call that might come at the last minute. To be asked to perform at the least possible time of notice.

Yeah, that's what I've told my band mates. I figured since she had not called us back that they didn't need the time slot filled (which make sense, based on the 3rd party information we received about the number of contestants). But since we had not heard a firm "no" from anyone in any official capacity, we have been operating like it still might happen, so we're being ready.

How much are you getting paid for a 3K attendance?

$500 for the hour.

While on this subject, let me add don't put all your eggs in one basket. I'm sure this gig was a very motivating factor for your band to get prepped for. Ive been there and done that, but you need more gigs.

Certainly, no doubt. You are 100% correct about that.

But like I said, it gets complicated and I didn't want to clutter the original post with all the gory details. Getting gigs isn't going to be much of a problem with this band; it's getting the band members to last long enough to play out on a consistent basis.

The 4th of July was window of opportunity for us, because we weren't sure if we were going to have our bass player beyond that due to a probable work schedule change. Since we had just replaced our drummer in late May, we had a window of opportunity to get the current lineup caught up to speed with 14-15 songs and play this gig on the 4th. After that things were up in the air.


The fact is that this band has been a year and a half in the making, and we've had trouble keeping a lineup together long enough to play out. This was the first real chance for us to play out as a cohesive unit. Every single time we've gotten close to having enough material to play out, even at a small event, someone bails out due to personal reasons, or work schedules, or whatever. It's been frustrating, but we've persevered. We know once the ball gets rolling with this band, it's going to roll really well.


We are certainly looking beyond this event. Our band members are thinking weeks, if not months, down the road. Everyone in the band (except me) has extensive gigging experience and knows most of the major contacts/venues in the local area. Getting gigs is not going to be the problem. The problem for us has been keeping the band together long enough to play out.

I mean, we just replaced our drummer a month ago. The original founder of the band left, and so there went 16 months of experience out the door with this material. We found another guy - and he's great - but you have to start all over. He has to learn all of this material, and of course every new member brings a different set of skill and talents to the table. And songs change or get replaced as new members come and go.

Myself and the vocalist have been the two constants since last August. We've built a core of 45 songs that we've spent a year and a half working on in various incarnations of this band (and now we're starting on original material that has grown rather organically from practice sessions).

We're in the process of getting people caught up now (again). But we're going to have to do it all over again after the 4th of July, because our current bass player is leaving the band due to a change in his work schedule on July 10th. So we have to get his replacement in here and get him caught up to speed as well, which means at a minimum a few more weeks of practice practice practice before we can play out.

It's been a tough road to travel. What makes it worse is that this is a smaller area, population-wise, so there isn't the huge pool of musicians to draw from like some cities 2-5 hours away. And most of the musicians here are into classic rock or country. So it is harder to find people who are of the right age, talent level, and inclination to do this sort of material. On top of that you have to weed out the drug addicts and boozers and get people who can behave in a professional and dedicated manner. The talent pool really shrinks.

I wish we could keep the four people together that we have now. But with the bassist leaving, again we have a hole to fill. We have a new who is prepping and we're going to try him out next week. I hope he works out, because all of us are ready to lock-in the lineup and start gigging. There's a lot of work in our local area, but we have to be READY to do it.

maybe it's just me, but if I put a band together, I'd expect them to be ready to play out (2 sets, at least) within 6 weeks.

I know it's a rough timeline, but I can learn and memorize 20+ songs a week, and I've met enough pros that can do the same.. it's all about commitment. And today, with tab so readily available on the internet, I don't see how anyone could NOT get down a buttload of songs and work them out in a few practices and be ready to go.

That being said, when you lay that expectation on people, you really find out who is and who isn't truly committed to getting out and playing. Some guys secretly never want to play out, they just want to stay in the garage forever.

Other than that, sometimes, after a year, if a band just can't seem to find the right members, I'd be wondering if it was meant to be.

Also being in multiple projects helps keep things in perspective, you should try that also if you aren't already.

Sorry to sound harsh, just thought some honesty was needed on this subject.