General Music Chat

Hey all, Well I took the plunge and put up a sound file on my profile. I'm not the best singer in the world, and I know that. I need improvement. I could really use some honest constructive feedback on my voice, good and bad. I want to improve and I need your input so I know what my strengths and weadnesses are.

Thanks,

Tracy

okay ..... here goes,......I listened to your track and checked out your profile and was actually surprised to see that you're in your 40's.

My very first thought when listening to it, is that it is very ametuer....
and I'm not trying to be mean or cruel....I just want to help!!

Honestly, your voice sounds like that of a teenager, not fully developed and you can definitely tell that you lack in experience. Even though the notes are all there, .... there isn't any "soul" behind them.....you're just singing notes....... that is mainly because of lack of experience. It also helps to sing songs that you can really relate to and "feel" - (if you're going to be singing cover tunes)..... that will also help bring out the "soul" or the "life" if you will, in the lyrics.... not just singing the notes.

Have you taken any professional vocal lessons?? Just teaching yourself?
I really would like to help....you have potential.....but, In my opinion... I don't think you're quite there yet!!
But, keep practicing.....especially to get more emotion across!!

You know Lady Rocker, I feel the same way about my voice, that it sounds juvenile. I have taken tons of vocal training, but not from very good teachers over the years. I just started working with Brett Mannings Singing Success program. I've been working with it for about six months. I wish he wasn't in Nashville though, I'd love to have him work with me in person.

And I don't have much experience, I haven't sang around other people or to people much, especially by myself.

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

Tracy

Hey Girl,

Yeah , I agree w/the Lady in that the vocal lacks emotion....Your note bending skills need some honing.(especially from the F# notes down to B in the vrs's)..Your voice timbre on the chorus/bridge (high B note) needs to be more "punchy"..it needs to differ from the vrs...Too "airy"needs to be thicker in that range..The track sounds dry(no effects)...You wouldnt notice the trills and bends being off as much if you were live with effects(delay, chorus, gate rev.,vocal conditioner, oral exciter etc.)Yeah, Now IM one of those emo vocals... ..Depending on how I feel, and how much Im gettin into it , and if Im not pissed,will determine how I sound..(NOT a natural )...Just sounds like ya to get into it more..Dont be afraid to belt it out on that chorus..AND alittle more voice control on the vrs's like the phrasings "follow you","you dont know", "you can turn me on the way that"...Ive always had trouble with notes that bend quite a few semitones up or down...I have to change my voice timbre all the time depending on who Im singin harmony with (male vrs female)....When I sing ballads with Tonya, I have to be more "hushy"airy" sounding.When singin eagles tunes with the guys , I have belt out that tenor...Sounds like your determined and committed and thats half the battle.Get emotionally involved with the tune...

Hope this helps,
John

I hope I wasn't too harsh!! I wasn't trying to be....

How in the heck do you work with someone in Nashville?? I mean, how does he train you??

Aren't there any Vocal Teachers in your area?? Like, most music stores, have ppl that give lessons.... I would think that would be more beneficial!
I gave vocal lessons for awhile..... if I lived in your area, I'd help ya out with some stuff..... But, it's kinda hard trying to do it this way... or over the phone....

Anyway..... In a way, I kinda had it easy..... my dad was a musician... He made records back in his day.....
I've been singing like I was 3-4 years old.....in front of ppl!!
Mostly family at first...

My school had an EXCELLENT music program ... for the small town that it is...... and we had music from K-6.... and I also always chose Choir / Band as classes from 7th grade all through HS!!

So, not only did I get extensive schooling at a young age, I've also always had a passion for it - I began performing in front of ppl.... weddings.... out in a club with my father....... In performing arts troups, and from there into my own bands......

But I'm really trying to help here!! I would suggest checking out local vocal teachers..... ck around -- ask ppl if they know anything about them, cuz in my opinion...... I feel it would be best to have a session with a teacher in the flesh.... face to face.....

I'm still wondering how the heck he trains you???

hello,
not a great singer here but better ear than most...
The good: there is potential here... you are hitting notes in tune for the most part.
the bad: need to breath! tone needs work. but most importantly rythm can make up for a lot... mick jaeger blows... but he has rythm in his voice.
make some recordings of yerself -best way to get there.

never give up, remember only you sound like you. you WILL find what you can do better than others -then exploit it.
many people told willie nelson he'd never get anywhere bcuz he was to nasal... but only willie sounds like that.
find YOUR voice and know that no one else can do what you do.
good luck

Hey guys, thanks for the input. I hear ya and I'll work on more "emotion". I was recording this track over the computer and I wasn't really working very much emotion into it. I guess I need to get better recording equipment so I can really do a good job on it.

As for me training with a local teacher, I was trying to train with a former vocal teacher I had a few years ago, and she was pushing breathing on me more then working on my vocal qualities and sound. I'm afraid to find someone else locally, cause I don't want to be bombarded with a bunch of breathing excercises. I want to work on my tone and other vocal weaknesses, that I don't feel breathing would improve on. I'm sorry, but since I've been working with Brett Manning's Singing Success program, I ordered it online and I use it at home, I've developed his attitude about breathing. Here is a cut and paste of an email that Brett sends out to all his vocal students.

Big Lie #4 - You will need special instruction to learn how to breathe correctly for singing.

Truth - You were born breathing correctly. You've continued to breathe. You breathe in, and speak on a regular basis. YOU KNOW HOW TO BREATHE ALREADY!

If you feel you are breathing ineffectively for singing, find a baby and watch them breathe. They are doing it just like it needs to be done for singing.

In fact, I can tell you how to check yourself, right now. Find a comfy spot on the carpet and lie down with your back against the floor. Now, just breathe normally in a relaxed manner. Feel your stomach with your hand as you breathe.

Do you feel how your abdomen rises and falls with each breath? That's what it is designed to do.

Now, do some singers breathe poorly for singing? Yes! But it's not because they've missed out on any special instructions. It's because they are trying some strange thing or maybe they are getting nervous and trying TOO HARD. Or, they are thinking more about breathing than about singing!

If you can get your mind off of breathing and get back to singing, you will find that your breath will regulate itself.

The only thing I say is this: If you notice that you are holding your stomach in while breathing, just let it hang out. If your chest is rising when you breath in, then you're holding your stomach in (probably for appearance sake).

So stop doing that and you've got your breathing back to "baby normal."

That's all you really need to know about breathing.

Much of classical training in the area of breathing is built on the strange assumption that your breath should regulate your tone production. But everything in our experience tells us that we allow our tone production to regulate our breath!

If that paragraph is confusing, it's not worth laboring over.

Just remember that if you are making your vocal cords come together and produce a pleasing tone, your lungs and "diaphragm" will deliver just the right amount of air! Work on the tone, the breath will take care of itself.


Keep singing,
Brett Manning

Singing Success Inc

So, I try to do what Brett says to do. Brett has worked with national recording artitsts, He works with major record labels and does phone and private lessons all the time. I really trust his teaching techniques. Trust me, my pitch and overall tone has improved dramatically since I've been using his program, and I've only been working on is for about six months. I have two other recordings, that I recorded a few years back, and I couldn't stay on pitch if my life depended on it. So I know I've improved, I just need to work more on the rest of my vocal problems. That's why I posted this thread, to get the feedback on the areas that I still need improvement on, so this is really helpful.

Thanks again,

Tracy

I realize bret probably knows what he's doing... that said... I think of the girl nora jones... you can hear the air she's pushing. Sounds like a flute. There is a hiss in the background that sounds like white noise.
Would bret say the sm thing to a sax player? Why do so many vocal teachers teach breathing? Why do wind instrument instructors teach it?
Big tone = deep breath... unnaturaly deep breath. Personal trainers teach deep breathing... why? These people can breath can't they? But if you learn some control of breathing you find you can run farther, lift more... etc. Again, I'm no vocal instructor... but I can tell the difference in sound when I take a deep breath and sing or when I am singing from the gut... tonally: there is no comparrison. here, did a google search...

"It’s similar to the breathing method currently being used in competitive sports training programs."
"Grant-Williams is one of the most sought after vocal coaches in music today and her clients include such well known artists as the Dixie Chicks, Faith Hill, Christina Aquilera, Tim McGraw, Martina McBride, Kenny Chesney and the Disney Channel's Miley Cyrus (Hannah Montana)."

MrMikeV, Of course you take deep breaths when you need to to carry out long phrases and sustain notes longer when you need to or when you need to really belt something out. I just don't make it a top priority when I sing. Brett's program has specific exercises that help condition and strengthen the vocal cords that help with developing a longer range and better overall vocal quality and tone. The way I sound now is way better then the way I used to sound before I started using Brett's program. My pitch has improved the most, I used to not be able to stay on pitch very well at all. My vocal tone has also improved and my range has increased by almost an octave and a half.

My vocal teacher that I had here locally, wanted me to breathe like Darth Vadar, no joke. She wanted me to breathe WAY too much in the songs I was singing, and the way she wanted me to do it was uncomfortable and it hurt like heck. I couldn't relax when I sang and it wasn't any fun to sing. You have to be able to relax when you sing or it's just not gonna work. When I breathe I take deep breaths and I support it and only let out as much air as I need to. I basically let my body breathe as much as it needs to.

Most of the feedback I've been getting from people about my singing is that I have lack of experience and you can hear it. That basically sums it up. I haven't sang much around people or with people, at least not in the recent years. That's why I wanted to get with other musicians so I could get more experience under me. The hard thing about that is, finding people that are willing to be patient and work with someone like me. There really isn't any performing opportunities around here that I could go to. We don't really have any local open mike places or kareoke places that I don't have to drive over an hour to get to.

I'll just keep working hard on improving and take the suggestions from this thread and work on what I've been told to. Thank you everyone for your comments and critique, I appreciate them.

Tracy

Hi Tracy,

I began studying voice using Speech Level Singing (the Seth Riggs method Brett Manning teaches) 3 years ago by a Certified Seth Riggs instructor in NJ named Badiene Magaziner. After 6 months we moved to where I currently reside, just outside Chicago. I too have Brett's Singing Success program as a way of maintaining and improving on what I learned with Badiene. BTW, Badiene knows Brett and says he's wonderful!I currently front a rock band and have recently gotten involved with a jazz/blues group. I get many compliments on my singing skills, though I feel I have so much more to learn. I credit speech level singing!!

Keep following the path you're on. You DON'T need all that breathing stuff all the other wacky voice teachers out there give you. I had one guy tell me to lay on my back with a stack of books on my chest. Once I started studying with Badiene, my greatest strength I think is my BELT!! I have no strain, no pain!

With Speech Level Singing, don't discount the benefit to be derived from a phone lesson. They are very common in the professional world of singing. I'll bet that Brett can listen to your demo or you singing live on the phone and be able to work out what's happening or at least give you some things to work on. Badiene does phone lessons as well - you can find a link to her site from my personal website www.bridgettegrace.com. Her rates might be lower than Brett's. It's an amazing and effective method. And worth every penny!

Good luck - you're studying the BEST, most EFFECTIVE method IMO!! That's a huge start! Invest in a few phone lessons. If you or your friends/family don't notice an improvement then stop. But I'll bet you will!
Keep me posted!

Fondly,

Bridgette

Bridgette, thank you soooo much for coming on here and backing up what I've been saying about Brett's teaching style! I just wish I could find a teacher in my area that teaches Speech Level singing that Brett does. But for now, I've been using Brett's program and I'm in the process of booking a phone lesson with Kelly. I'm hoping to take it next week.

I will definintely keep you posted on how things go with me.

BTW, did you listen to my sound clips on my profile. They aren't the best recordings in the world and I'm working on finding some good recording equipment and a better PA system. Right now I'm using a small guitar amp as my PA. LOL Any suggestions on what I could get that cheap?

Thanks again,

Tracy

Yes, I listened to your demo. The problem is not so much your equipment. I agree with the above posts about conveying emotion when you sing. Your audience should "feel" something when you sing. Your demo is lacking that. If you start focusing on your emotions and what the song means to you, you should see an improvement in that department. If not on that song, then pick one you really truly feel and can convey vocally, especially for your demo. Your pitch is off - but that can be improved with hard work and ear training (consider purchasing David Lucas Burges Relative Pitch training course which Brett recommends). In addition, the tone is nasal. I would imagine that it's twofold. One you need to raise your pallet (sp?). Try singing with an almost exagerated smile and feel how your pallet is positioned and if it sounds less nasal (record yourself or use a trusted friend with a good ear). Two is you're probably singing with a high larynx, especially on the high notes. Yawn and feel where your larynx is - low and relaxed. Then try to sing. Do you understand what I mean when I say "put a little cry into it"? If you do that, especially on those high notes, you're going to find a deeper, more pleasing tone.

That's the bad news. The good news is you CAN learn how to sing without sounding nasal and improve your pitch. Since the whole song is not out of tune I know you are capable of hearing pitch, it's just a matter of training the ear. Unfortunately getting a late start in life, as did I, means we have a lot of making up to do! Other singers and musicians have had years of ear training and most started at young ages when we pick things up so much easier, which is why children can pick up foreign languages much more quickly than adults! Keep working and believing in yourself. Perhaps begin learning an instrument as well, such as the guitar or keys. Not only will it help your ear but you'll gain tons of respect from your bandmates and other musicians!!

Bridgette

Hey Bridgette, I understand what you are saying and I'll work on your suggestions. I've been singing since I was in high school and I took tons of training from different teachers. all of which taught me wrong techniques. Alot of them were choral teachers and they would teach me to have my placement all in my head, so that's probably why I sound nasal at times. I still need to bring the sound down more into my chest voice. Some would harp on breathing like crazy. I've only been using Brett's program since October of last year. I know I have a long way to go and a lot of work to do, but I'm determined that I'm gonna do this! LOL

I'm learning another instrument, the drums. And I'm loving it. I've tried playing the guitar and piano, but had to give up for various reasons. I'll check into the perfect pitch thing you were talking about. It would be nice to be able to hear pitches perfectly. My 14 year old son, is that way. He can hear a note and know exactly what is being played! He's amazing!

BTW, I listened to your sound file on your profile, you are awesome! How long have you been singing?

Tracy

Thanks for the compliment! I guess we all sing from the time we can talk - along with the radio, in the shower, etc. But I was never in choir, never took any lessons on an instrument. I did a little karaoke, very badly I might add, in my 20's. I took a couple lessons then, but stopped. I started the Seth Riggs method 3 years ago. The good thing is I didn't have a lot of bad habits to break. Learning to sing through my breaks happened very quickly, but I was still nasal for quite some time. You can hear a bit at the end of the demo - which was recorded a year ago. But in this past year, I've come along way on working through that as well! I still have some pitch issues, but that is CONSTANTLY improving.

Although perfect pitch is a valuable tool - it may drive you crazy in a band situation if someone is a little "off". RELATIVE pitch is far more important to a singer IMO because it helps with harmonies, developing your own style, and singing different styles, in addition to being on pitch. I own both courses, but am starting with the relative pitch. It's too bad things didn't work out for you with the guitar or keys. Although drums are so COOL and will help with timing, it won't help much in the way of ear training or music theory. But I understand, you have to do what works for you!

I'm still learning to sing and I'm still learning to stay on pitch better - I've come a long way so I know from personal experience it can be done. Just believe in yourself and don't give up - you're on the right path and it won't take long to get where you want to be!

Bridgette

Hey Bridgette, I was wondering if you ever scheduled any phone lessons from Brett or Kelly and how long did it take to get them booked? I've been trying for a couple of weeks and we still haven't been able to juggle schedules to get it booked.

Also, I think I've found a local teacher that teaches SLS. I did a search online today and a few teachers came up in my area. I emailed him and am waiting for his reply as to when I could sign up with him. I can't wait to get going with furthering my training with someone I KNOW will help me.