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#67022 by ColorsFade
Mon May 11, 2009 6:09 pm
Sigh...

Some things are just really aggravating to deal with.

Our band has been looking for a bass player for a very long time. We've been through several different people since December and we're trying out a new guy right now. He practiced with us last week and it was the first time our band didn't have fun at a rehearsal (for a lot of reasons, but I'm only going to vent about one of them here).

We're a contemporary hard rock band. We make no bones about it. Our set list is on our web page for anyone to see. We don't do classic rock; we have no interest in it; it's not fun for us, and our band was founded on the idea of playing music we love and having fun. That we do not play classic rock should be obvious by the songs in our set lists.

And yet the first thing our newest bassist wants to do is add classic rock songs to our set lists and get us to learn "Sweet Home Alabama" because "bars won't hire you if you don't play that song".

Groan...

My band mates are two of the coolest people I know. I love playing with them. Our band has a certain vibe - we have fun, we rock hard, we're very laid back and respectful of each other and there's never any drama - and we really like it that way. And we all like the fact that our band plays new rock, not old stuff. It is extremely disappointing to continue to try out new bass players only to have them try and convert us to a classic rock band.

You can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a half a dozen classic rock bands. Classic rock has been done to death. We don't want to be yet another classic rock band in a sea of classic rock bands. We want to stand out; we want to play the music that drives us and that tends to be the newer stuff.

Our feelings on venues is, if a bar doesn't want to hire us because we don't play classic rock then fine! Hire one of the copycat classic rock cover bands. There's plenty to choose from! We don't want to play anywhere where we're not wanted.

We live in a place where there are three different colleges and universities within 30 minutes of each other. Our music skews to a younger audience anyway; we believe there will be venues for the songs we're playing.


Anyway... we were all just extremely frustrated by this sort of thing which seems to happen on a pretty regular basis with the new people we try out. We're tired of prospective members not getting it - not understanding what we're trying to do here.
#67024 by PocketGroovesGSO
Mon May 11, 2009 6:34 pm
ColorsFade wrote:And yet the first thing our newest bassist wants to do is add classic rock songs to our set lists and get us to learn "Sweet Home Alabama" because "bars won't hire you if you don't play that song".


That sucks dude!! I've been in bands before that have gone through members, and it is frustrating trying to find a player that fits with your music AND your ideals. I think its great that you and your bandmates are sticking to your guns and saying NO to Skynard. Don't get me wrong -- there's nothing wrong with anything classic rock or Skynard, but like you wrote: Hire one of the copycat classic rock cover bands. There's plenty to choose from!

It's a shame that there are so many great musicians out there that are closed minded enough to believe you have to play stuff like that to get hired anywhere. It's just not true. I play many kinds of music in my particular situation, and I haven't played any classic rock in YEARS! No trouble getting any gigs though when I've wanted to play live... Hang in there CF -- you'll get your guy. Hey, I would come audition if you weren't half way across the country!! :D

#67027 by MadmX
Mon May 11, 2009 7:14 pm
Ok colors... here it is from someone who has been through this....Many times....:)

Is the primary goal of your band to make music, make money, or have fun?

If the answer is to make money... then you will need to brush up on your "Skynnard"... or you run the risk of being hungry and gigless... when you play for money, you are expected to play what your employer tells you they want... you belong to them for the 2 hours they hired you for... plain and simple...

If your primary focus is to make music... then tell your new bass player to blow.... learn whatever covers you want, then start writting originals... you can market yourself in almost any place... but you will be lucky to make a plug nickel, in fact it will drain any cash you have Until..... you get a large enough following that the clubs will pay you to bring your crowd because its large enough to make a profit on drinks...

If it is just to have fun... then do what your doing... but don't bother to get frustrated if you have a hard time finding others who want to dedicate a bunch of time "just for fun".. and also don't be disapointed if the gigs are few and far between... unless you find a club that specializes in what you play or until you manage to find a following for your covers...

It's really all about being honest with yourself about why you are in a band to begin with....

X!
#67028 by Kramerguy
Mon May 11, 2009 7:23 pm
ColorsFade wrote:It is extremely disappointing to continue to try out new bass players only to have them try and convert us to a classic rock band.

You can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a half a dozen classic rock bands. Classic rock has been done to death. We don't want to be yet another classic rock band in a sea of classic rock bands.


I swear you must live down the street from me. I think that same guy auditioned for my band last summer.

I agree with you, classic rock IS done to death in many areas, and also agree with MadmX - If that's what the bars want.. then sure ... looks like the guy you auditioned was just on a different page..

What bothers me is that he didn't figure that out from your setlist.. what a moron.

#67033 by ColorsFade
Mon May 11, 2009 7:52 pm
MadmX wrote:when you play for money, you are expected to play what your employer tells you they want... you belong to them for the 2 hours they hired you for... plain and simple...


But why? That doesn't make any sense. We're not a juke box. We're not on on-demand cable music station. We're a cover BAND. Keyword - BAND.

As a bar owner, would you hire Garth Brooks and then demand he play metal? Would you hire Tool and demand they play techno-pop? It doesn't make any sense.

Cover bands have an obvious sound/vibe/feel. You can get a sense for what kind of band they are by looking at a set list. You can tell right off if a cover band does more 50's and 60's surfer rock/pop, or classic rock, or country, or whatever. If I were a bar owner whose primary clientele were folks in their 40's, 50's and 60's and they wore cowboy hats and cowboy boots to my establishment, I wouldn't try and hire us. We don't play music that appeals to that demographic. Hiring a band like us and expecting us to play Skynard when we don't have a single classic rock song listed on our website is completely stupid; it's brain dead.


We clearly state what songs we cover. We're happy to hand over any set lists to prospective employers. They should know before they hire us what kind of music we play.

Cover bands should not be treated like a juke box. If a bar owner wants a juke box, by all means - purchase one. We're not a juke box. We're a cover band, and we cover a specific genre of music. It's up to the bar owner, as far as I'm concerned, to make the decision on what kind of music they want played in their establishment.

But they should be making that decision BEFORE they hire a band, not after.

#67034 by Chippy
Mon May 11, 2009 7:58 pm
This is a difficult problem but not life threatening. I know it's awkward when a new person comes in but let's not forget that they too are probably feeling a little insecure themselves?

After all we are all artists aren't we.

I've had this problem too and it ended up in our band splitting which was absolutely annoying. You know what though? Some things are for the best.

Perhaps get together and talk rationally about it? When someone new comes in they are the FNG boy and even though they may seem overbearing it may just be nerves perhaps?

I would give it a total re-think. Bands are no good without all of the elements.

Just my take, Soz.

Chippy.
Last edited by Chippy on Mon May 11, 2009 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#67035 by ted_lord
Mon May 11, 2009 7:59 pm
ColorsFade wrote: Would you hire Tool and demand they play techno-pop? It doesn't make any sense.



Honestly, you don't think they could play techno-pop? have you heard the latest cd?!? lmao but I get your point, yah classic rock covers are lame, you need to move to upstate ny you could get gigs as a modern hard-rock cover band, maybe play a few 80's songs that you like and you'd be all set, but I didn't look at your set-list to have a real idea

#67037 by gbheil
Mon May 11, 2009 8:19 pm
:D Smile it'll get better. You guys have already decided what you want to do and the reasoning behind it. Heck, thats the hard part.
Take a deep breath and continue your search.
Dont assume anyone who comes to audition is going to know what your all about. TELL THEM POINT BLANK RIGHT UP FRONT (no I aint yellin at you just making some emphisis.)
I can prolly relate to your pain as well as anyone. One guy we auditioned we told him just play the bass. We will playour original music you just create what you feel for now. Well he did not play much of anything till I wandered off into Cocaine during a break.
Try to find musicians who want to do rockin original praise music. :wink:

#67039 by jw123
Mon May 11, 2009 8:25 pm
20 yrs ago our band played around Memphis State University. These gigs didnt pay a lot of money. The audiences would request Skynyrd and classic rock, the bar standards.

This past weekend we played in Jackson TN. A wedding party came in, guys and girls, when i talked to them they were all in college together. So we played Control, So Hott, Killing In The Name. They requested Sweet Home Alabama, Play That Funky Music and Get Down Tonight.

Good Luck with whatever you play, it doesnt matter to me, but as a long time cover band player. At some point people will expect you to dig into classic rock territory. It is what it is. These songs just work even in some of the hardest rocking clubs we play in, pull out Simple Man and folks get up and dance.

This past New Years we got hired fo big money at a Moose Lodge. The people that hired us came and saw us twice before they hired us, stayed for the whole gig. After we started the first set, one of the guys that hired us came up and said you are going to have to play some country. So we kinda addlibbed some southern rock music into a country vibe, noone danced. After 2 or 3 songs like this I jumped into Sandman and the people were up and dancing.

The answer to your problem is to develop an audience that will go to your gigs. If you can bring enough people with you to your gigs you can play anything you want. On the other hand if you dont draw you ultimately will have to play whatever the audience that pays a cover charge asks you to play. This is a business of supply and demand, If you cant deliver what a venue wants and that is revenue, you wont be playing anyway.

Im at a point I dont care what I play as long as people get up dance and have a good time. But more importantly spend enough money at venues to keep the owners happy. Once you start building your following ask them what they want to hear, they will tell you. If you want to make a fan play what they ask for and they will keep coming to see you. Did you read that if the main peopl that come to see you ask to hear Sweet Home Alabama then you might want to listen.

Good Luck

#67042 by 1collaborator
Mon May 11, 2009 8:34 pm
I am a guitar player, but Ive been playing bass for only about 3 years now and most of that has been doing original stuff. The last cover band I played with was a country / classic rock band doing mostly covers. Ive been trying to find a new group to play with and get aggravated a little when I ask the guy Im in contact with about a set list and most act like they dont know what a set list is. Id love to get a call from a group that I could prepare myself for and not worry I wont know what their doing. And I think it sucks that someone cant show up knowing what their supposed to do. Out of the last 4 bands I went to play with only 1 gave me something to work on. The songs they gave me were a couple of real tuff tunes to pick up in a couple of days so I guess they knew it would be a real challenge for someone to pick em up quick. I showed up and killed 3 of the 4 they gave me and kick myself for not working on the 4th harder. Another group had a list but didnt offer anything they played off of it. But all things said Ill find a new band sooner or later Ill fit in.
As a group bringing in someone new. I think you have to make the newby understand that the list is an important tool for them to use to learn what your doing and if he wants to add or take something, he has to prove he is willing and able to do what the band wants. NO exceptions or excuses granted. I dont want to play a lot of stuff the classic rock guys are doing are doing and its a dissapointment to show up to an audition and the first song they want to play is Sweet Home Carolina like your supposed to know it . Their band wasnt good enough to play with me and Ill just keep on playing elsewhere till I find one that is.

Stick to your list


Its another day in Paradise !!!

#67046 by fisherman bob
Mon May 11, 2009 9:09 pm
I REALLY feel your pain. Somebody coming into your band wanting to convert you to another genre should be shown the door. There's a market for what you want to do, screw the classic rock people. How many times can you eat the exact same pizza every day before you want to throw up? Sweet Home Alabama is a great song bu they play it EVERY day on the classic rock stations. Stick with what YOU want to play, be it cover or originals. If you're good the gigs will come, maybe more slowly than the classic rock cover bands, but they'll come. "Build it and they'll come." Build it YOUR way and have more fun. Set the ground rules and tell them this is what we do, take it or leave it...

#67047 by Chippy
Mon May 11, 2009 9:16 pm
Yeah but America is a big place with lots of big people. If you want to get anywhere its about talking and not about the core membership.

Actually the other day I was counting the bands.

At 17 I took a song in on guitar, at 19 I had a set of drums in a small closet. Oddly the neighbours didn't moan about that half as much as the trombone.

What I am getting at is this.

It does not matter about YOU, it matters about the group as a whole. Sometimes groups of people think they are the whole thing and rightly so too but for hecks sake if you need something then work with it, choose your best option and go for it.

I've played styles I don't much like. But I was playing. Of course there are those who would come in with a massive head and decide you are on the wrong track. (Difficult subject).

Anyone?

#67049 by MadmX
Mon May 11, 2009 9:39 pm
ColorsFade wrote:But why? That doesn't make any sense. We're not a juke box. We're not on on-demand cable music station. We're a cover BAND. Keyword - BAND.


LOL ... umm no Colors.... you ARE a jukebox... just a live one... lol Thats what your being paid for, is to be a live jukebox... and that is EXACTLY what the successful cover bands are.. they have large set lists and take requests, they know every song ever written.. etc.. etc..

Yes, colors, a cover band IS a loud, smelly jukebox that drinks to much....:)

And no, a bar owner would not hire a "country jukebox" when what they want is metal.... They would hire a "Metal Jukebox" if thats what they want... so, if your not playing what the bars want right now... then, you won't be playing those bars..:)

You will need to find places that want what your selling... your friends birthday party, the drummers sisters wedding... etc... or a bar/club that is part of your scene... you may have to drive to get to it.. but thats what it takes sometimes.... drive all day just to get a 45 min set on Monday night...:)

Sorry dude, but the money side of music is a business and should be treated as such.. otherwise, you will just be pissed off all the time.. and thats no fun!

X!
Last edited by MadmX on Mon May 11, 2009 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#67050 by ratsass
Mon May 11, 2009 9:39 pm
I believe you said there were 2 or 3 colleges near you? They'll want what you're playing and you can probably make more money there than in bars anyway. No matter where you play, you're going to have people come up and request stuff you don't play. Be nice and courteous and explain that that's not what your band is about. I always say, "Oh, we don't do that stuff. We leave for the people who can do it justice." and laugh, and then go into something that they should like just as well. But, you can't please everybody. If you're having a good time doing what you're doing, the crowd will mostly have a good time as well.

#67051 by MadmX
Mon May 11, 2009 9:44 pm
Colors,

I just noticed how old you are... but I also noticed how many gigs you have played.. I can assume that you already have a job, mortgage kids etc.. etc.. this gig thing, break out do what you want to deal is kind of a young mans game.. it can be done, but just now getting serious doing modern music is going to increase your level of frustration... the demographic issue could be a HUGE factor in what your trying to do...

You can do it, if you are commited, but it's going to be frustrating for sure.

X!

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