General Music Chat

Chippy

I answered you twice now did you miss one of the replies? If not I am not sure what else your looking for in proof.

My traffic has grown by from 3 visitors a day to an average of 75, and I follow everything I suggest or I would not talk about it.

Here are the threads,

Reply (1)

Chippy

Everything is always a work in process and I follow my own rules to the T. When I started the site I got 2-3 visitors and to be honest 2 of them were me visiting the site checking the layout etc. One of the things I talk about that I do is a link campaign. You can read about that in this post. http://euphonyproductions.com/build-it- ... -will-come

My traffic has grown to over 75 visitors a day in 2 months time and that is a success in my mind. I have sold 16 songs and made some money from the ads on the site. I gain ground every day but it takes a lot of time.

I have a little help as my Wife has a site called www.Sparkplugging.com and she has over 4500 visitors a day and was recently on the Today Show and interviewed by Katie Couric. She has tried and tested the stuff for 3 years so that made my start a little easier.

A lot of what I write about are things I find out from www.Artistshouse.com great video conferences on music promotion there.

If you want to talk off line some time I would be glad to let you in on everything step by step otherwise this comment would be 12 pages long.

Contact me through the site as with the start here I am a little reserved to post my phone # on the forum. If some will comment that way lord knows what phone calls they might make.

Dave



Reply (2)


Chippy,

Ok

Why should you follow my route is your question?

I do feel that the internet is the current medium where music is being sold and marketing is being done and has been for some time now.

The existence of myspace and facebook music are perfect examples. Everything I read and hear from panels from conferences are all singing the same tune which is what I have been working as a plan so to me that gives social proof to the techniques I recommend. My growing traffic and readers is another. I get 60% return visits and 40% new traffic on average and they spend an average of 8 minutes on my site viewing at least 4 pages. I can tell you it did not start that way Chippy.

Now that said everyone should pick what they feel will work and try anything once within reason. The three biggest things I can contribute to my traffic and sales are:

1. My Weekly Blogs

2. The Link Campaigns

3. Classified ads.

In the ads just tell them you have something that might benefit them and it is free and make sure you deliver that something so you gain credibility.

The reason the Blogs bring traffic is the are genuine and offer value to musical readers and that is the one thing people ask themselves all the time is "What is in it for me? Blogs give that amswer as they can come weekly and see topics that interest them and leave them taking away more than they came with. You can have all the forums and products in the world but if you don't have great content people find value in the ship is sunk.

With link campaigns you are basically networking with successful Bloggers who are where you want to be. If you are genuine with them and patient they will grow top respect you as your heart is in the right place. If you see a successful Blog site and like nothing about it you should not have that be someone you network with as you can not be genuine with that site owner. It does not mean the Blog is bad just means it did not get your juices flowing and that is OK.

One add in is in the Blog Posts you need to Tag your keywords and with you being clearly in the know for the web with being a host I know you know what I mean. I use Word Press and go to Google adword search to see what people search for and tag those words that are related to my post and it took some time but I am getting Google search engine traffic now.

As far a gigging I am not doing that as frankly with 3 kids and a wife and a day job the time is unavailable to put into a live gigging band to sound the way I would need to sound which is perfect.

First impressions you know... I have played over 200 gigs in my life and had a hell of a lot of fun and had great crowds because the music we chose right and we were tight as hell. Today I have to pick the battles I know I can fight well and not spread myself too thin or it all turns to crap.

I looked at your site and I think it could use a Blog Chippy especially with your plan to record and sell an album. If you plan to do that online in my opinion you need other reasons to make people want to come to and back to your site for what you will write next that they will find value in.

By the way I dig the animation on the site it is terrific. I could use some help from you if you are willing and maybe I can help you with what I know. I have been trying to change the appearance of my forum to look more like the rest of the site and I am a bit stumped. I read you had a forum.

Anyway I hope this helps you.

Dave

When people come on here promoting something some of us tend to act like Pavlov's dogs and start barking immediately. I looked for a while at Euphony and it has some merit. I also listened to I'm Not Waiting on your profile page and it ROCKS, VERY well produced. Maybe some of us shouldn't be so suspicious every time somebody starts promoting their website. I know, a lot of these are worthless crap, but only decide if it's worthless crap after doing a thorough investigation (if you want to investigate). Is Euphony appropriate for the Bandmix forum? IMO more appropriate than a lot of crap we've seen before...

Fisherman Bob

Thanks much.

Let me be clear I am not representing myself as the end all be all just someone how has seen these things work for me and a guy willing to share the ideas for free. I am not asking for anything in return.

I am choosing to believe that he just missed the second reply as I am pretty sure I answered him adequately.

If Chippy is suspicious of my merit and that is why his questions keep coming and this is more of an interrogation I am not interested in participating in that.

Thanks again for coming out in my support Fisherman Bob.

Dave

Hello Dave

I been kinda watching this thing without comment.

Now its time I feel for my two cents;

I have come to know fisherman bob pretty well (for a cyber relationship anyway) Bob seems to be one of those guys who looks things over from more than one angle and rarely have I seen him jump to a conclusion.
I also would susspect that Bob's support is not so much for "you" as it is for the fact that there is room for bonafide services to be offered through the Forum.

It can be beneficial; I have purchased items from Bandmix members before, as well as used free information that I have learned about from my fellow Forum contributors.

Sometime soon when I am not so tired that I read every line three times I intend to check out the information you offer.
Thanks.

Hey, Dave. Your info to Chippy shows how successful your site has and that's some really good numbers. I think what Chippy is asking is "How has it helped you musically? Have you gotten a record deal or sold any songs to artists who want to use them?" Things like that. Chippy's not one to browbeat anyone over anything. He's just wondering about your musical success (I think). I would like to know too. Or if you have any success stories from someone has used the info. I'm sure your site has probably helped people along the road to stardom. Have any ever sent you a thank you with a story on how it helped them in their quest? You might consider putting a spot on your page for testimonials. Some people don't think about thanking people online. and this would give them the idea to do so.

LONG FREAKING POST COMING UP.

Dave. I think I understand Chippy's questioning as well. I also understand your stance a little. I think what chippy's getting at is, in order to generate traffic to your site, people need to know that you have reached a certain level of success in order to keep coming back.

To a beginner, your site can be very useful. And I do like where you're going with the ideas behind your site. However, you do need to realize that it puts your site in competition with musicians/bands who are signed pros. It seems like Chippy is asking for example, "why would I read your blogs as opposed to someone like Eric Clapton or even on a more moderate level, Johnny Lang".

In other words, and again, I'm not trying to be mean here, it doesn't appear that you have reached a level of success that merits one visiting and taking advice from you about "making it". I personally get the sense that you are still at the stages of trying to make it yourself. Which isn't something to look down upon, all of us here are.

Let's look at things from this perspective.

There is a guy who used to be on here frequently named Mike Gentry. He's pretty young by music standards, but plays like a complete pro in every sense of the word. Everyone here who has heard him LOVES his Blues playing. But he's currently in a modern rock band (not sure exactly how to label it) Dressed To Kill. His myspace alone was generating at one time 400-600 plays per day from their basement demo. Recently his band has recorded a professional full length (unsigned) cd, and I can only imagine that they are flying out of their hands pretty quickly. Conversely, he is in the process of recording a solo cd, which I presume will have some of his Blues playing on it among other things.

Well his band is apparently breaking up. There is a new blog posted about it. May 16th will be their last show. Adding to the situation is the fact that you can currently vote for Dressed to Kill to be on the Warped Tour (which I already have). And it's really not something to scoff at, they did get voted in, and did play the Warped Tour last year. It's very possible that they will get voted in again. Now THAT'S a story, and one that was played out last year as well. If I remember correctly it was one of their last shows with their first singer and first keyboard player.

I have been so riveted by him and is band that I visit both (his and his band's) Myspaces all the time. And it's not so much because he's "made it". I just love his music and I want him to make it so bad, that I always have to check in on whether he has the news of it or not. I've been riveted, and rooting for it to happen. It's always at the tip of his fingers, and as a seasoned musician, I just want to see him catch the Roadrunner (so to speak).

It really is an interesting story. He's out there giving it all he has, and whether it's now or later, I get the sense that he will reach success. I have a feeling I will follow his career for the rest of my life. And it's more because A: he's a freaking AMAZING guitar player, and B: he's already shown with his first attempt he has a good head on his shoulders and does have the capabilities to make it happen one way or another.

So I understand where you're coming from with your ideas. You website is a nice website. But it's not as needed or as essential as you're making it out to be in my opinion. I follow Gentry by Myspace alone. I read his Blogs there. And if I want to watch him play, I watch his You Tube Vids. You can't create fans by website alone unless you are a REAL baddass. And to tell you the truth, I still believe that Myspace and You Tube generate more traffic than "Official" websites do. They are more like formalities these days, than actual traffic stations.

So far, by your posts here, I get more of a sense that you are a middle aged man who is basically trying to go the "website only" rout. You've already let us know on this site that you don't plan on playing out due to the fact that you are a family man (once again, nothing wrong with that). Your visitor numbers and song sales really aren't staggering. There's no mention of what your success REALLY is or was. And I get no sense that you will have any real interesting battle stories other than, I took the kids to the park, and by the way, I recorded a new song. You can buy it here.

No offense, but I'm more inclined to yawn than follow. What's to keep me riveted to keep me coming to your site??

What you are basically doing is saying, " I have the recipe for success!" and have come at us with the equivalent of hot-dogs..

I'm personally on pace to do 200 gigs in 1-year. And I haven't even been in this band for a year yet. I just got through playing 4- in a row, and 5 within the week. I played in front of 5,000- 7,000 people within the past 3 weeks. We sold somewhere around 20 cd's at $5.00 a piece last week alone, and they are all basement recordings that cost us nothing (soon to change, we're going into the studio soon). Not exactly staggering, but they are still numbers that are better than the one's that you are displaying in this thread. We're selling shirts, meeting our fans, other bands, managers, venue owners, promoters, etc.. All in person.

We're hitting the stage and the pavement. Because, unfortunately, the internet has become a "what can I get for free" medium. We offer our current demo songs for free but people still buy our cd. It's the live show that compels them to want to.

So you can see where a person like me will have a hard time taking your advice as clear-cut advice for success. How much more have you "made it" than myself in reality? You do, however, have a better official website than the HaleAmanO site.

In the near future we will have a better official website, our songs for sale, and we'll blog and do all of that stuff. We've got our hurdles to make as well. We even have pro vids taken of our band, and some of it will be for sale only. But it's one thing at a time. And right now, we want to be face to face with our fans in hopes that they will keep coming to our shows, then be excited about buying our music proudly whether it's online or in the form of a cd. However, or wherever they get it. But live shows are King for us right now.

If we didn't do that, we would have never met the good promoters, managers, producers, bands, fans, etc. that are willing to take us under their wings. They are creating our opportunities, and it's up to us to perform when we're called on to do so, and not disappoint. They didn't just surf the web, run across our music, and just magically say, " I want to help this band out". We had to perform for them.

So Dave, I don't want you to think that I don't respect your ideals. You do offer some good info on building a good band website. And I do agree that major labels see that as a sign that they are dealing with true pros. But it's also equally important to keep yourself on the Myspace and You Tube wave. Ask any Hawaiian how to surf the big waves, and they will always tell you, you just can't fight a big wave, let it carry you.

I can tell you that you will generate more traffic on those sites than your "official" website any day of the week. I LOVE the band Tool, but I haven't been to their "official" website in maybe a couple of years. I constantly watch their You Tube vids though. And I do have their CDs. My point is, "official" websites are a last resort for consumers to just see a Tour Schedule or some pics and an "occasional" Blog or news. They are more of a " you heard it first and officially" site, and official on-line store, than anything else. I'll even go so far as to say that in order to give the power back to an artist to sell songs probably hinges on the battle between sites like You Tube and Official sites. But it's just not the case right now. You Tube is MTV on steroids. Official sites are not even close to being the main traffic getter of bands right now. Especially unsigned acts..

Please don't be offended by the "hot dog" analogy. You're offering free advice on building a good website, but not the full spectrum of a recipe for success. You aren't displaying a Fillet Mignon recipe. That kind of recipe can only be given by those who have reached a certain status in this industry whether it's a major label, major musician, major producer, major A&R agent, etc. Whatever the case may be.

That's what I think Chippy is getting at.

Unless you DO explain your accomplishments as better than what we can see so far, you are bound to have your nay-sayers.

On a personal level you do seem like a nice guy. I respect your venture in trying what it is that I think your trying to accomplish. But I also think you should focus your advice on building a good official band website for beginners more than trying to convince people of your successes as a guage for achieving success in the music industry as a whole..

One last thing to ponder when it comes to the current industry. The Major labels are nowhere near being dead and buried. They are adjusting. Major bands are still signing with them for a reason. One thing that the internet has done is make them a little more humble and open to new ideas. Something that hasn't happened in a while. The music industry has no choice but to adjust.

I'm going to end this VERY LONG post with a You Tube vid that is very interesting. It's a video of a very successful musician talking about what he thinks of the music industry and some of it's mistakes. How fortunate are we that this ideal (in the first clip) is in the process of being turned over to the people via the internet.

Ladies and gentleman.. Mr. Frank Zappa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UAWqwLjN70

Peace.

Hi Dave.
No I asked once before. It was just that you replied to yourself, no worries.

OK thanks for the extensive explanation and for the great replies from others since too. I can see that this is a web based Thesis based on Theory, I have no problems with that, its good advice after all.

What it is not based on is your personal global success in the Music industry, i.e. your hits. Site stats don't interest me, please read on.

When you say.........

I can tell you it did not start that way Chippy.

Worries me to a point, in fact it brought a smile to my face.

I run and have built several very successful web sites, some for multi million dollar concerns. I am after all a qualified web designer and host sites too. (Please note I don't go on about it). I don't have to use CMS based sites such as word press/Joomla/Mambo and so on. In essence, I can code.

I also run one major web site that is affiliated and linked to by thousands as a trusted news source. I'm sure there are other people here too with better qualifications than I have for sure.

In essence people may not be as dumb as you think they are. (No offense).

Am I doing it for myself? Yes of course I am but the meat of this story is the product. Music in this case, and that takes time.

Anyway I'm sure that this thread and many others that you post are conclusive evidence of your marketing strategy which you rightly say DRIVES audiences to your work and products.

Forum? I'd be glad to help out in any way I can though I've never liked phpbb at all.

Very best and again, no offense and in perfect honesty.

The Minnow = (Chippy)

Guys

All I can say to all of this is what I have on the site in my opinion is something everyone who wants to market themselves online should be doing and that comes from many many videos and articles I have read from well known successful Bloggers and conversations with online music industry professionals that are in the know for internet marketing and what it takes.

I have 75 visitors a day 58% are new and 42% are return visitors and they all look at 5 pages on average and stay at my site for an average of almost 10 minutes.

That tells me they don't yawn when they go to my site they find value and the comments they leave tell me the same thing. Is=f you need proof go see the comments for yourselves.

I think to grow from 1 visitor a day on day one to 75 a day in less than two months is a pretty damn good track record and to sell now 15 songs in that time tells me I am making headway. I don't need anymore than that I am convinced from actual events and will continue.

I have not pulled this stuff I write about out of thin air either and reference my sources in many posts no different than a term paper in school. Want proof once again go do some reading on my site.

I have seen success from what I am doing in song sales, web traffic, and ad sales with my site and that success grows daily.

In my opinion I do think a serious musician needs a website of their own to promote his or her music and if professionals did not agree with me then artists like Eric Clapton and Johnny Lang would only have MySpace pages and they don't just have that they have very advanced websites with all sorts of information other than their songs

Some are writing Blogs too.

A website is a place to solely promote your own music and anything else IE. Blogs. These sites can use Youtube and myspace and any other medium to compliment them and usually do.

Now as far as needing a big house or 10 billion records sold to know what I doing is working I don't. I have social proof all over the Internet of others it is working for and I am gaining ground too and will continue.

I don't think we will see record companies much longer and we will see who is right plenty of predictions out there some right some wrong. I don't wish them ill will just think they are a dying breed and once again that is my opinion no one has to agree with me on that.

No reason to be up in arms about one guys opinion unless it is offensive and I don't believe this is offensive.

Music and sites are subjective to taste and if this were not true there would be one music style and one web theme. If you feel what I have on the sight makes you yawn that is cool as you are one person who has a valid opinion that I can respect.

I have had people tell me they LOVE my music and others tell me they HATE it and I am sure you have all had similar experiences too. We don't hang up our guitars based on one mans opinion we keep chugging along full steam if we believe in what we are doing.

You all have to do what you feel is right and if it is working for you then that is awesome.

I have to do what I feel is right and I believe in the process I talk about and disagree that one cannot be very well known with just a website if that site has the right stuff (Content) and the songs are good enough.

There are bloggers who make $10,000 a month solely on a website so once again that is social proof for me and tells me I can make it work too. I personally know about 15 of them who are good friends that have helped me with advice and been mentors to me. It does not make a difference what you Blog about as long as there are masses of people that will find value in it.

If I never sell another song and that is doubtful eventually I will get to that level with the ads and sponsors that will come from traffic as if anyone has been looking there are a hell of a lot of companies really interested in the traffic some sites get and those people visiting seeing their ads and they are giving them lots of money to talk about their products like Gibson, Taylor and many others.

You guys should really go out searching like I did I think you would be very surprised at what you find and might grow very different opinions about what I write about.

I will enjoy helping others to get there too which will be the icing on the cake for me my friends.

Does anyone here have any proof that a music career absolutely cannot work from promotion on a website alone or is that just an opinion too?

It is a valid question my friends as well.

Once again that is my opinion and I will end this post by saying I really need to focus my time and energy on positive promotion and helping people who want it and can use it.

That said I will no longer answer anyone's posts on proving what I do works or respond to any negative posts.

If you wish to use what I write about then use it if you wish to ignore it then ignore it I am really cool with it either way as like I said it is my opinion I have gained from tons of research.


Have a great day to all of you

Dave

Right on Dave. It's all good man. I respect your opinions. We all have them. That's what a forum is for. I'm sure one thing we can all agree on is that it has been a good forum discussion that hasn't derailed (yet.. Every thread seems to spin into odd directions these days, so when it happens don't be surprised).

Good luck in your venture. I wish you success my friend.

Peace.


Oh.. Sorry. I didn't answer your question. What I said was: "You can't create fans by website alone unless you are a REAL baddass."

That wasn't to say it can't happen, just that it takes a very deft person (or band) to pull it off.

Peace to you too Sheddr

Hope the world of Reggae treats you well


Dave

Peace to you too Dave.
This thread has become a book now

Guys

All I can say to all of this is what I have on the site in my opinion is something everyone who wants to market themselves online should be doing and that comes from many many videos and articles I have read from well known successful Bloggers and conversations with online music industry professionals that are in the know for internet marketing and what it takes.

This is what I needed personally for my clarification. Sorry for being tenacious, it's my way when I don't understand things, If you don't ask questions, you will never learn.

I'm glad your site is doing well for you too. My old boss however used to say. "Self praise is no praise at all". By and large he was right too.

Best and in peace.
Chippy

Peace to you too Sheddr

Hope the world of Reggae treats you well


Dave

Have a great day Chippy

You too Dave.

Have a great day Chippy

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