General Music Chat

hey everyone,

just thought i would let you know about a website me and three mates created called www.thegigman.com

The website is an international gig guide which allows bands/dj's/promoters/venues to upload posters onto a virtual brick wall.

Punters/music lovers can then search via country, region/state, city, music style, band name and venue to find a gig they will enjoy.

The whole idea was to give live independant acts a chance to promote themselves and get more exposure for FREE! whilst making it easier for fans to find upcoming gigs

Let me know what you think?

P.S. if your city or town is not listed in the search criteria, don't worry you can add it to our database when you upload a poster

P.P.S. If you would like to see all the posters on the website at the moment do not select and search criteria from the home page and simply press search

cheers

pete

Just curious-

What kind of promo are you doing to get club owners, and more importantly - club-goers to use your site as "the place" to visit for such information?

You are apparently shooting for nationwide coverage, but can you get even one locality or major city to "follow" your site for this information?

I've been finding a lot of websites like this fail miserably, simply because they put the burden of this promo on the bands, and not themselves.

For instance, let's say I start putting my poster on your site.. now I have to bring my fans to your site to see it... why would I want to bring MY fans off MY myspace page (as an example) where they already view my events? It would seem a bad business decision to me, as I don't want my fans to browse what other bands are playing around town..

You need to find a way to build a 'fan-base' (just like us bands.. sucks, don't it?) to entice bands to the exposure before many would see any level of success from your site.. otherwise, it's just a waste of time.

Sorry for the harsh criticism, but we see 100 new sites "for bands" every day, and 99% of them fail because there's no real marketable concept or forward thinking... other than "my site is sooo much cooler than anything else out there, so it just HAS to be successful"...

Well the site has been only been running for three weeks and i have been promoting it in my home town and i have had some great feedback and usage.

There's nothin about you using my site because its cooler than everyone elses site thing going on here. Either use it or don't i respect your opinion but:

Bad business decision! It's like sticking a poster on any real brick wall around your home town promoting your next gig. Your making out like no one else should play in a band but you. There are hundreds of bands out there who all deserve a chance!

And of course independant bands have to promote themselves, who else is going to do it....... really?

How do you tink i came up with this concept? I am not some tech nerd who had an ingenious money making idea, i slogged it out on the band circuit and have used myspace and facebook to promote my gigs too.

People have to be friends with you on myspace to actually find your gigs.
The whole idea was to get people who haven't seen or heard of you before down to your next gig.

I thought this would give talented hard working bands a chance for exposure to fans who are actually interseted in their music rather than it being a popularity contest as it is on myspace.

Why would you want to have the same stagnant crowd you post messages to on myspace come down to your gigs every saturday night when you could grow some balls and put yourself out there for people to actually find and enjoy your music.

I thought this would give talented hard working bands a chance for exposure to fans who are actually interseted in their music rather than it being a popularity contest as it is on myspace.

And that was my question that you didn't quite answer-

HOW is your site going to help my band get this exposure? How will you get anyone from our home-town to go to your site and look at this "brick wall".

I think it's an honest question that deserves an honest answer.

If your marketing plan includes spamming musician forums, well... as I pointed out, a band gains nothing from redirecting their fans to your site, but can gain a lot if your site can bring new fans to the band.... so..

What is your marketing plan for achieving that goal?

Kramer is asking Why would a general music fan go to your site in the first place? What is the draw? What keeps your site from being another boring stagnant music site?

Pardon me, but my bands site is for the folks that come see my band. Why would I wnat them looking at the bands in my area. In marketing one of the golden rules is never give your competition any acknowledgement. Never mention them. SO Myspace is screwy when a band has literally hundreds of other bands as friends. Weve tryed to limit it to bands that we actually know and have something in common with.

Im not knocking your site, but anyone can do exactly what you are doing. I hope you make some rock stars, I really do. But answer simple questions when asked OK.

Kramerguy, awesome post. I'm curious what in your thinking would constitute a good marketing model for a band / gig website. I'm thinking the model would need to include the following though I'm not sure if something like this would hit the proverbial nail on the head.

1. Band website
2. Ability to RSS feed your band's upcoming events to all of your other websites, or vice-versa (centralize your efforts).
3. Ability to receive ratings (users listened to your music and rate it).
4. A place for establishments to come to find musicians to play in their establishment.
5. A place for music stores to advertise their wares.
6. An offline location for collaboration efforts
7. free or paid to rid oneself of pesky adverts

What would make you as a musician interested in signing up for my website, as opposed to the competition. What would set my site apart from the rest?

^.^
Chris

I'm curious what in your thinking would constitute a good marketing model for a band / gig website.

Thanks- I'm going to split this up and address it line by line. I think your response/questions are outstanding. well done!

I'm thinking the model would need to include the following though I'm not sure if something like this would hit the proverbial nail on the head.

1. Band website

Link to band website/myspace, and obvious profile info.

2. Ability to RSS feed your band's upcoming events to all of your other websites, or vice-versa (centralize your efforts).

Absolutely! With all the different social sites out there, there are now services popping up JUST to keep the same info / logo / formats aligned amongst all of the different sites. It's almost mind boggling.. so to add your band to yet another site seems counter-productive, unless we get a site that can integrate all of the info from the major sites into one well packaged and appealing site.

3. Ability to receive ratings (users listened to your music and rate it).

Ahh yes, the blessing and the curse. Like myspace and facebook, there would need to be separate types of accounts for fans vs. bands. I would think it's only reasonable for fans to be able to vote, so bands aren't trying to downplay their competitors.

4. A place for establishments to come to find musicians to play in their establishment.

Once again, a very astute observation.. the one thing that other sites lack is an easy method for bars and bookers to look up bands by geographic area. Bandmix does offer that, but shoots themselves in the foot by not allowing contact without a subscription, so 90% of those bands left the site ages ago, and their profile just sits dormant, and those who do try to contact them get no response, and leave bandmix as well, assuming the site sucks... My response kind of turned into what NOT to do.. but .. hey this post could be a bit of both I guess.

5. A place for music stores to advertise their wares.

I would say it should encompass any aspect of the biz... have a separate category for musicians, bands, fans, clubs, bookers, publishers, promotors, and whatever else I missed. Although, the site should set it's primary focus on the fans.. which is the critical mistake almost ALL of these other failed sites has made.. without the fans, nothing else matters.

6. An offline location for collaboration efforts

Not sure on this one.. don't think offline is really necessary in today's industry. BUT.. I could see things like getting local volunteers / street teams together to do events or open mics or something in the name of the site, or "sponsored by".. with some kind of trinket giveaways, mentoring, whatever.. something to entice people to get behind it, and more importantly - recommend it to their friends. This focus would have to be equally on the fans as well...

7. free or paid to rid oneself of pesky adverts

Yes.. another critical flaw in the bandmix model... free accounts should just be subject to adverts, but not limited in their scope or especially in "contactability".

What would make you as a musician interested in signing up for my website, as opposed to the competition. What would set my site apart from the rest?

Pretty much everything I said above

KRAMERGUY, YOUR TOUGH.
That is a great start. You have talent, you have drive.

The music business is no diferent than any other business, other than the fact your are playing music.

I OWN MY OWN BUSINESS. I DON'T DO ALL THE GRUNT WORK. I USED TO WHEN WE STARTED BUT I DIDN'T FALL Victim to the "E MYTH". This is just backround. WHEN WE FIRST started our company I just had a strong belief in myself and what I could do. [ This was after more than one failed attempt to start a business, you don't want to be the only grunt]

The point of this being learning how to run ANY business

KEITH you are on the right track , oh yeah, but you need a business plan you revise at least once a year and if you need help from HONEST people [some that don't play music] seek them out.

I THINK THIS IS THE GREATEST TIME FOR MUSICIANS TO MAKE THEIR MARK THAN HAS EVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!!!!!!!

Hey giongi2-

I'm NOT looking to start this as a project, I'm just offering my two cents worth of advice, from the perspective of a musician - and what I would want.. no .. NEED from a musician site, at least to get my attention.

I got my own biz plan right now that I was just about to make a post about - look for it

Your two cents worth might be worth a buck.!

I think you guys are missing the point of this dudes music website thing..
His website appeals to, for example... someone new in a town, likes a certain style of music and wants to find out what bands are playing in that town they might like....seems easier than trawling through local newspapers and guides

You seem to be under the impression that when an established fan comes to see your band they will stay faithfull to your 'brand' and never listen to any other music ever again, and by advertising with other 'brands' you are somehow giving the competition credit?....How do you explain the success of massive festivals all around the world, especially as a launching pad for new talent? Youve got hundreds of bands all playing and 'advertising' together for days at a time and no one seems to have a problem with that.
.....my 2 cents!

KEITH,
SEEMS LIKE THERE IS A LOT OF I DON'T GET HERE. GOOD LUCK.

I think you guys are missing the point of this dudes music website thing..
His website appeals to, for example... someone new in a town, likes a certain style of music and wants to find out what bands are playing in that town they might like....seems easier than trawling through local newspapers and guides

And all I asked was how he intended to entice those people, new to town or not- to visit his site. All we know so far is that he spams musician sites. I have a feeling he has no plan whatsoever, and probably didn't even consider the other half of the formula.

Now you, on the other hand... could it be that mr. OP decided that since he had no viable response, that he might just create another bmix account and argue a blanket defense in the third person? Hmm. Naah, that would be rather troll-ish.

Hmmmm, where do I start.

The funniest thing about all this is a) how opinionated this bitter, old, twisted, failed muso Kramerguy is and b) how much interest, and thus publicity, this post is attracting.

Firstly on point a).

Is this your question you so desperately want answered? - "What kind of promo are you doing to get club owners, and more importantly - club-goers to use your site as "the place" to visit for such information?"

The "honest" response you so desperately crave is this - we are taking it as it comes. Did we have a $20,000 marketing plan sussed prior to launching? No. But do you think Zuckerberg had one when he created Facebook in his college dorm? The Gigman is merely an idea we have launched to help local bands advertise their gigs, and an idea that is still evolving, including our promotion and marketing ideas. We also play in bands, have jobs, go out, etc etc AND do the Gigman to help local bands. We don't, however, sit on chat forums looking for an opportunity to knock such endeavors. I'm disappointed in myself for wasting the last 30 minutes responding to such stupidity, for this reason below...

I find it absolutely astounding you question why bands would want to advertise away from their home sites in fear of "competition"? What, do you want to always play to a room full of just your mates? Do you think people only like one band and that's it? Are you scared other bands are better (highly likely)? Possibly the dumbest concept I have ever heard...you should be ashamed, and anyone else who has this view, and we don't want small-minded retards on our site...f off

Moving on to point b)

Yes we have posted on or "spammed" music forums as you put it, but isn't letting people know of a new music website a good thing, and one of a forums purpose? We are not trying to get any money, or steal other sites traffic, or whatever other bizarre theories you can conjure up...we simply had an idea, did it, and are now letting people know its there, that's it...and even if we were, would that be so bad? Is capitalism illegal? Do you think any business starts out with any other goal? Yes we hope people use our site, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't use others...we encourage it, as the more places bands advertise their gigs, the better it is for live music...we are currently engaging in various promotional activities, like this one (cheers), through print, radio, and online mediums. We agree this will be extremely hard, and also agree 99% of the time, businesses like ours fail...but we are having a shot, and believe we will be the 1% that succeeds

And lastly, the conspiracy theory on us making another account...again, you should be ashamed...the idiocy is truly interesting

Good luck to all your bands and we hope you use our site to promote live music. If not, all the best

Kramer is asking Why would a general music fan go to your site in the first place? What is the draw? What keeps your site from being another boring stagnant music site?

Pardon me, but my bands site is for the folks that come see my band. Why would I wnat them looking at the bands in my area. In marketing one of the golden rules is never give your competition any acknowledgement. Never mention them. SO Myspace is screwy when a band has literally hundreds of other bands as friends. Weve tryed to limit it to bands that we actually know and have something in common with.

Im not knocking your site, but anyone can do exactly what you are doing. I hope you make some rock stars, I really do. But answer simple questions when asked OK.

Have you ever run your own business (besides your band)? Your statement about the golden rule in marketing about never giving your compettition any acknowledgement couldn't be further from the truth. I WANT people to know about my compettion. I WANT people to know that I have something different that people might like better than the competition. I WANT people to know that I may NOT have a service they need so I PURPOSELY SEND THEM TO MY COMPETITION. Then guess what, when people go to my competition and I have what they need my competition sends them to me. Did you know that in Japan almost every small business has advertisiements of their competitors plastered all over their stores telling people to find stuff they don't have and VICE -VERSA. One of my biggest competitors in Kansas City sends me leads EVERY MONTH. You WANT to tell people about other bands because YOU"RE BETTER THAN THEM. You want to tell people to compare your band with other bands BECAUSE YOU COMPARE FAVORABLY. I love the concept this guy is selling. It's WAY COOL. One place where music lovers can look and see numerous advertisements for all kinds of bands. I can't wait to get my band's poster on a site with all different band posters. This way whatever mood somebody is in that night they can find the band that will satisfy that mood. This concept is COOL. It's SIMPLE. It's DIRECT. It WILL draw interest because there's so many different bands in ONE place. On your poster on this site you could easily have your band's web address or myspace page or Bandmix page for that matter. This is a WINNING concept, I hope it works. This kind of reminds me of a business directory in a classified newspaper: a bunch of my competitors and other non-competitors in one handy location...