United States

The model was young
and I was getting old
She was beautiful
and I was noticing

She sat across the table
Her laugh was delightful
Lonely night ahead
Thinking about the model.

Her man was there
So I watched my behavior
I observed the room,
And I told her, "See you later."

Doing the right thing,
sometimes is

hard
to do !!!!!!!!!!

I had a decisionl to make
And eventually the right decision came through.

I have never sat so close to a model before
Pat me on the back
Give me an encore.

I gave her my number,
and maybe she will call,
if she doesn't
it doesn't matter

Autumn will still come and leaves will still fall.


[size=18]Checkout at The Elbow-Room Hotel
In 1977
halfway between Dallas and El Paso
On I-10W, my Firebird broke down!
It was on its last leg,
it was fading away.

So I went into the trunk
took out my duffel bag and began to hump.

Due to winter time, it start getting dark,
it started of getting cold.
I saw snakes rolled up in coils,
I saw fields of oil.
I saw ghosts in ghost towns,
And I heard echoes all around.

In the distance,
I saw a tall wooden structure
Blowing like a blade of grass
In the wind.

It had a welcome sign, that said, "Do Come In"
It had a wooden fire escape that went up to the fifth floor
And It had termite eaten floors and doors!

The manager of the Elbow Room Hotel was polite
and he was very courteous

He took great pride in his job, and he took
every complaint serious.
An old Indian woman worked there, and I
think she was more of a conversation piece
than an actual employee,

Late at night you could get a taco,
from the kitchen
and watch the black and white t.v.

Around 12 noon an old wino
came up to me and asked...
what time is it????

I said,


"CHECKOUT TIME AT THE ELBOW ROOM HOTEL"[/size]


P.S.Fisherman Bob- I have setlled down, and have decided to concentrate on my writings. Things were starting to get ugly, and I largely at fault. I hope we still can collaborate.

Funny, we have club in this area called The Elbow Room, played there many times. It's all original music and loud and dirty.

Generic Thing I think. Like Elm Street, or Vine. Just about in every city you will find one.

Alright man.. So I'm looking over the writing.

I'm going to critique this Charles.. Don't freak out ok.

It's better. It is.

Especially since it doesn't involve me being a gay lover or a drunken dirt-bag. Or the evil bastard son of Satan.

You need to trust me on this ok.

What this looks like to me is the beginning stages of writing a song, but not actually a song YET.

I see ideas.. But they are in poetry, not song structure. I'm seeing like 12 verses and no chorus. This looks like what a songwriter would typically do before dissecting the ideas to make a song.

A lot of times in songs, especially commercial songs, you'll see 2 or 3 verses, a chorus, and a bridge. You need to break this down A LOT. If this were to be recorded as it stands, it would be like 15-minutes long and not have a chorus. I'm not too sure I know any band that could or would pull that off.

I think you should use this as a rough draft. Or maybe 2. These are just the engaging ideas.

I actually posted this for you in another thread but I'll do it again so you can understand a little of what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RysJKIo8KRw

Now after watching that video, what I can tell you is you have somewhere about 10-12 circles. And that's good. That's a lot to work with. But what I think I really see here is 2 songs not 1.

It starts with a model, then all of the sudden she has a man, then you're driving, and break down, then you check into a hotel and check out. The song is over.

What was the purpose of the model? You're not bringing that purpose back into the song. The story just sort of wanders off and falls off a cliff (so to speak).

The hardest part of songwriting is learning how to tell a story in very few words, using somewhat of a structured syllable pattern for your verses and chorus. It's ok to let a bridge wander, but even then, they're usually very short as well. And generally come back to the chorus.

Taking that in consideration, I think the chorus should focus on the model and the subject.

And your verses aren't really showing any kind if repetitive rhythm. That is key in order for the song to have a structured melody.

For example:

"The manager of the Elbow Room Hotel was polite
and he was very courteous

He took great pride in his job, and he took
every complaint serious.
An old Indian woman worked there, and I
think she was more of a conversation piece
than an actual employee,

Late at night you could get a taco,
from the kitchen
and watch the black and white t.v."

This particular portion doesn't seem to have a structured syllable pattern. Snap your fingers in rhythm, and read the words. The rhythm and the words lose each other before you get to the end.

Not to mention, I'm personally not sure where the indian woman employee fits in the story. Or being able to get a taco in the kitchen, and the tv. It's too much information that's not needed.

What I'm guessing here is that all of the driving, and breaking down and observation of the scenery, and the hotel, was 10 verses to describe loneliness. Which can be done in 2-4 lines.

My advice would be something like this:

Intro= 2-lines setting up meeting the model
Verse= 2-lines describing the model_ 2-lines describing how the subject feels about her
Chorus= 2-lines loneliness of subject_ 2-lines loneliness of model
Verse= 1-line fantasy about model by subject_ 1-line fantasy about subject by model
Chorus= 2-lines loneliness of subject_ 2-lines loneliness of model
Bridge= subject and model meeting again by chance, anything can happen
Chorus= 2-lines loneliness of subject_ 2-lines loneliness of model
Chorus= 2-lines loneliness of subject_ 2-lines loneliness of model
out.

Or something of that nature. Don't be afraid to map out and plan a song. It can help to dissect your ideas into a solid story with structure.

That way you end up with:

Verse-6-lines
Chorus-4-lines
verse-2-lines
chorus-4-lines
bridge-x whatever
chorus-4-lines
chorus-4-lines

That is a typical basic song structure. For many decades that formula has worked. It keeps the song around 3 to 3-1/2 minutes. All that is needed in a song. That formula alone has made billions upon billions. You just need to learn to pick and choose from your ideas and fit them in that structure, with repetitive small syllable patterns, and keep the listener captivated by the story TO START. Then when you have that down, you can start experimenting with more complicated structures. Because that isn't the end all be all structure. Just one of the the most basic ones.

By what I'm seeing you should ditch all the truck breaking down and motel employee stuff and focus on the guy and the girl alone. Even if you feel like the line CHECKOUT TIME AT THE ELBOW ROOM HOTEL symbolizes the loneliness of the 2 subjects in the chorus.

That's my opinion dog. Take it or leave it.

These aren't "lyrical." They have no rhythm. You cannot sing them so they will make sense in a musical setting.

Btw, Shredd, I think these are 2 separate songs, if the title of the thread is any indicator.

While I applaud your sentence that says "Things were starting to get ugly, and I largely at fault," I find it funny that it took you over two weeks to discover that fact, or that you left out the verb like you did, but I've sorta gotten used to your lack of skills in the English language. In fact, things "started to get ugly" after your 2nd post.

I find it very interesting that we can be so forgiving to you after all that you've posted, & still find the time to read & critique your "work." You need to take note of that before you ever start attacking ppl in these forums again, charlie. We may not be quite so forgiving in the future, should your adolescent tantrums rise within you again.

These 2 pieces are in the very early stages of the writing process, charlie. You have not yet found the formula or whatever it takes to create useable lyrics. You have a couple of ideas, but you need to work on them, to develop them before you present them as finished works. Much of this needs to be rewritten before it can be used, man. There are lots of ways to tell a tale, but in music, it becomes harder than prose, in that you are required to say what you need to in as few words as possible, while keeping in mind rhyme & rhythm patterns that you seem to want to ignore.

These may fall into the category of "poetry," but they are not lyrics, & even as poetry, they need editing for grammar & content.

Go back & try again, if you want to do better.

Maybe after you get the ideas a bit more condensed and you are ready to turn it into a song, you could have a simple drum pattern playing on a drum machine or something to keep the timing going while you read it and try to make it fit, allowing you to edit it to fit the rhythm.

You may or may not have noticed, but this is the first comment or reply I've made to any of your posts in quite a while. The reason being that this is the first of your posts in a long time that actually has merit. I wasn't exactly ignoring you, I just didn't want to be dragged into your arguments with other bandmix members. Reading those posts weren't a bit enjoyable and if I can't enjoy something, I just stay away from it. Hopefully, you'll drop all that other stuff and keep working towards being a contributing member of this forum.
Hell, if I wanted daily arguments, I would have stayed married or gotten re-married instead of staying happily divorced for 20 years.

Call me crazy, but I have this bizarre idea..

How about instead of doing it this way, the OP picks up a guitar, strums a few chords, makes all those words fit somehow into some sort of progressions, let's call them verses and choruses, and then hits the record button on any number of recording devices and then uploads it for us to critique, and that way we won't have to guess the mood, tempo, arrangements, or anything.

Yeah, whacked out idea, I know..

Btw, Shredd, I think these are 2 separate songs, if the title of the thread is any indicator.

That makes a little more sense. Now that I look at it again. I didn't see the separation last night.

Maybe it's because I'm not seeing a chorus in either one.

What might be happening is he's hearing a 12-bar blues in his head and writing verses narrator style. But without a chorus, it would still just sound like poetry to music. Kind of like William Shatner's music? Poerty? What do you really call it?

William Shatner is a "performance artist," at best, even when he's "acting" in his melodramatic way. Best thing he ever did was those commercials he's running for the travel agency. LOL

Oh no you didnt!!

Ok Sulu, set phasers on stun!!
No wait, make that photon torpedos!


Aw hell, beam me up Scotty! Spock's flashing that Vulcan gang sign again.

Live long and prosper. Okay George Im throwin down some Vulcan Gang signs right now, my mind to your mind, your mind to my mind, our minds are becoming one. Can you hear me now.

Thanks for feeling me on this. As with a lot of my songs, they are narration type. Both "The Model, and "The Elbow Room Hotel" are. I like the style of Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash, and Barry White in singing/narration type. I also appreciate and try to immulate the "Old School " Shaft, and Ike and Tina Turner. You hit me right on, with the 12 bar blues revelation. Knowing this do you still want me to do what you suggested? And also I am confused. Do you want me to incorporate the two songs into one, or do you want me to eliminate "The Model" and make her part of "Elbow Room Hotel". I appreciate your feedback, and I will surely incorporate them into my rewrite. The suggestions would be incorporated in future endeavors.

No the confusion was mine. I didn't catch the separation between the songs and saw them as one. They definitely should stay 2 songs unless you have some kind of revelation that mixes the two.

The formula I posted is more for commercial use. It's used in just about every style of music. However there are many variations, and narrator style blues is something that can be tweaked. But you still need some kind of a chorus.

Take a look at this song.

~B.B. King~

The Thrill Is Gone

The thrill is gone
The thrill is gone away
The thrill is gone baby
The thrill is gone away
You know you done me wrong baby
And you’ll be sorry someday

The thrill is gone
It’s gone away from me
The thrill is gone baby
The thrill is gone away from me
Although, I’ll still live on
But so lonely I’ll be

The thrill is gone
It’s gone away for good
The thrill is gone baby
It’s gone away for good
Someday I know I’ll be open armed baby
Just like I know a good man should

You know I’m free, free now baby
I’m free from your spell
Oh I’m free, free, free now
I’m free from your spell
And now that it’s all over
All I can do is wish you well


A majority of the song is Chorus. There's very little verse writing. Although the writings in the end are different than the chorus at the end of the song. Mr. King sings them the same way as the chorus, so in reality it's still like a chorus. It's like there are 2 choruses written. In fact, by that observation, the whole song is basically a chorus. It doesn't deviate from a basic melody throughout the whole song.

But I'm still going to consider the last 2 lines of each one to be verses.

This is a style that is very unconventional for most genres. But not for Blues music.

How is this song pulled off??

The syllable pattern.

They are all odd numbers. It's kind of strange to really grasp at first, because some words don't really count as syllables when you're dealing in rhythm.

Take these lines for example:

The thrill is gone
It’s gone away for good
The thrill is gone baby
It’s gone away for good

Take away the first words of every line, because the emphasis is on the second words in term of the rhythm. And in this song the word "Baby' is really just a word that sometimes B.B. just mumbles. It's a hanger. It's not always an emphasized word in terms of the way he sings.

Basically what I'm seeing is 3-5-3-5.
3-5 is a typical rhythm pattern in songwriting as well as 5-7 which I can see in this song too.

You'll notice that in many songs, odd numbers are used to keep a rhythm pattern structured.


Good rhythm structure, great melody, catchy chorus. And of course great guitaring. Great song.



Now let's take a look at JUST the first 3 verse writings all in one lump.

~You know you done me wrong baby
And you’ll be sorry someday
Although, I’ll still live on
But so lonely I’ll be
Someday I know I’ll be open armed baby
Just like I know a good man should~

Looks like one verse doesn't it??

So you can see how it's possible to pick and choose from your verse lyrics, add chorus, and the song is really close to being done. Usually 6-8 verse lines is enough.

Now I'll use your own lyrics as an example, if I may, and I'll show the syllable count:

She sat across the table
Her laugh was delightful Laughing
Lonely night ahead
Thinking about the model.

7-8-5-7.

See that 8 in the 2nd line? that killed the rhythm. The word "laughing" breaks the rhythm pattern.

So let's try to tweak it a little:

She sat across the table
Her laugh was SO delightful
Lonely night ahead
Thinking about the model.

7-7-5-7. That's better.

Ok well..There's still something missing. Almost like there needs to be a last line that rhymes with "ahead". But a 5th verse line can throw off the structure of the song. The ends of the lines all rhyme except for one. It doesn't seem balanced. Technically it works, but it doesn't roll of the tongue smoothly. In my opinion anyway. I just think it could be better.

I would still try something else... Does the listener REALLY need to know she's a model?? Why not try to just describe something about her that just leaves that up to the listener's imagination..

She sat across the table
Lonely night ahead
Her laugh was so delightful
So beautiful dressed in red

7-5-7-7 Good.

The verse looks balanced. The structure looks good. Rolls off the tongue. The rhymes are split evenly.

Works for me man.

A little tweaking and you have a nice verse to work with.

You don't really have to use it. I'm not trying to put words in your head. It's just a basic example of how you need to make adjustments to your writings to actually have a balanced structure.

In terms of writing more narrative Blues. The writings are usually longer but I think you'll find some interesting observations in the syllable patterns. So the same usually applies. 3-5-7-9-etc.. 2-4-6-8-Etc.. Once you start mixing and matching odds and evens the rhythm gets tricky to hold. Not impossible, but very hard.

It takes practice.

Shredd - that was beautifully spoken, & very informative, my man!

Hope it helps him out.

Hi all across the pond,
I missed this thread but just read 'The Writer''s song about elbow room hotel... I love lots of it but especially laughed with pleasure at the verse:

'He took great pride in his job, and he took
every complaint serious.
An old Indian woman worked there, and I
think she was more of a conversation piece
than an actual employee, '

It is so beautifully factual, and happy to throw rhyme out the window in order to say what it wants to say about the old Indian woman!

I am a little reminded of a light-hearted poem I started scribbling in a pub one night, and finished at home.
Called:

If it could be (for one sad puppy)

Now this feels hard, a poem out of nothing save the thought that I should write,
And vaguely feeling words of love like some I found I’d muttered watching crumpet in the pub the other night, as John had talked.
This girl we saw had legs that seemed like rockets setting off for space,
and where they joined they seemed agreed that anywhere was better than remotely near her pretty face… so fairly long I mean.

Oh I was smitten alright.
She smiled at me and that was nice, least twice I caught her looking across and grinning as she spoke to a mate.
It wasn’t just the length of legs that made me love her,
her eyes were pools of liquid stars as if they’d stolen years of light from high above…
yes this as well, her neck was nice and scarcely shorter than a swan which sounds too long but was needed with her length of legs.

It’s rare to find a breast that gives offence once you’re past thirty
Except ‘shagger John’ who said he’d just got off with a woman who had tits like roof tilers nail bags… but he’s always talking dirty.
But whatever, these weren’t like that they were firm and pert, quite large though not too big and droopy, nor too small and with her laughter jiggled nice and jerky.
As you can guess I loved her deeply sculpted sexy back,
Moaned as it swelled onto her perfect bum and felt strong commitment towards her, and wondered what she’d go like in the sack.
I wandered off towards the bogs so I could get a closer look as I came back.

It’s said that love is just a taste of heaven like for all of us awaits, if we’ve been good to god above,
Well I’ve been good at giving praise to god’s creations, done my bit of fondling breasts and loved to dive on shoals of muff.
But all the way I’ve wondered if I really know what women like,
All the times I get a chance to be with one they make as if I’m some weird jester, “oy mate on yer bike”.
Yet later as I wander home, imagining her beside me whispering what we’re going to do… I’m not alone.