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Once in a while you have to say "NO" to make your "YES"'s believable.

This may seem like a stupid and naive question, yet I found myself troubled with it.

All the time I plaid in bands I was invited there by friends, or friends of band members. This time is a first time in my life when I call people for auditions. Schedule times and so in search for the "right" people.

Those of you who are pro's (TheKIDD, JW123, J-HALEY, RhythmMan and others) Question to you:

1) How do you say 'NO' to a guy?
2) If you not sure "yes" or "no" because you have other people scheduled, how long to you wait to give an answer?

...This dude reads my ad on craigslist, comes across as he is a virtuoso bassist, sends me a descent enough demo. I arrange meeting and fly to the studio through rush hour traffic. He arrives. Pawn shop equipment, out of tune, out of key and out of time. Will not take a second to listen to the riff. Can't stay tight with anything even a simple 5 chord progression. And I hope to god no one passes though the hallway in the mean time...

...At last the torment is over and we are outside and I am thinking to myself: "please do not ask me when we rehearse next time".

What would you do? (there is no question of him being a part of a lineup of cause)

In fact any suggestion for hosting an audition would be welcome. I am sure the people who come in will also audition what my partner and I do. I am confident in my ability to play, it is the politics I have problems with. I do not want to f**k this one up.

Share your wisdom, oh experienced ones!

"I'll be in touch. Thanks for coming by." And then of course you don't call. If he bothers to call you back, tell him you found someone, or your old guy who left decided to come back. - This is the best one for all you ppl who really hate confrontations.

"Nice, but not the direction we're going. Thanks for trying out. A lot of ppl just make appointments & don't even show up."

"You should check out a ( insert other musical style here) kind of band. I think you'd fit better in that genre. Thanks for coming by."

Or, if you have the cojones, be frankly honest -
"I don't think you have the chops yet. You need to work on (whatever the trouble is). Thanks for coming by, though."

ALWAYS thank them for auditioning & trying, even if it's clear that they're only half-heartedly going through the motions. It's not only polite, but it softens the blow when you don't hug them & tell them how great you think they are.

You are correct in saying an audition goes both ways.

Auditions can be one of the most frustrating part of the music biz for me. So much so we have decided to stay 3 peice for a while.

When holding auditions it is a good idea to have a conversation with the people you are planning on auditioning try to feel them out first make sure they understand the genre of music you want to play and don't be afraid to lay your cards on the table tell them exactly what you are looking for in a firm but nice way, try not to tell them about past bad experiences because you don't want to scare off a potencially good candidate. during this conversation if they say something like "can my old lady come she wants to make sure there are no whores there" thats a pretty good sign of a controling spouse that later on will tell the band when they can play and what you can do (I actually had a grown man ask me that recently)LOL. This way you are not wasting each others time.

To answer your question of how to tell them no, this is an area you can't be afraid of confrontation in, you must tell them how it is, but please be tactful and considerate of other peoples feelings, you will gain a lot better reputation if you do it this way. In this situation people will most definately show their true colors and sometimes no matter how you say it they are going to feel insulted and will become confrontational these are the kind of people that you don't want to play with anyway just say good ridance, but on the other hand most people will understand because it usually is obvious to them after the audition is over.

We were looking for a drummer in Jan. of 08 I talked to at least 100 and we auditioned about 50 before we found our man. This one guy told me "I am a good no frills drummer" he came out we auditioned 3 people that day and my grandson is a better drummer than this guy I mean the guy just didn't have it, and he new it, that guy shot out of there like a bullet completely humiliated himself I felt bad for him. He wasted our time but still I called him back the next day and thanked him for coming out but we were looking for someone a little more expreianced than him.

Also when auditioning multiple people in the same day spread them out with about 30 minutes in between it can be uncomfortable to have everyone show up at the same time, and avoid allowing people to pressure they're way into the band "I need an answer" politely tell everyone that you audition you will call them with an answer as soon as you are done auditioning. It is best to tell them over the phone anyway, that way if they get confrontational it doesn't get too confrontational. Don't be suprised at the ones that take it hard and may want to vent and insult you just let them vent and when they are done tell them you are sorry they feel that way.

I'm honest. I tell them, right up front, before I even meet them: no promises.
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I say I haven't heard them play, I don't know what kindsa of rhythms or style songs they're used to, or if their style is compatible with mine.
I say we need to get together to see what each other likes and hates.
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I mention that everyone tends to exaggerate their experience; that tends to weed out some of the wannabes . . .
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I tell them let's check it out to see if we're a match - and - if not - no big deal. And- it isn't.
Cause maybe we can network - I might know someone else for them, or vice versa.
I tell them that before I even meet them.
And I use the word 'compatible' a lot . . . and the phrase 'no promises.'
They appreciate the honesty.
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Then I say why don't you come over at . . . and let's give it a shot.
I tell them that, - at the very least - we've each made another musician connection.
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So, now they're not extremely hopeful about getting in.
To say the least.
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But - they can see I'm easy to get along with, I'm-up-front and honest, I'm easy on them, and I've piqued their curiosity. Now they're interested in seeing what I'm talking about, and what I play.
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But, usually when we get together, it's immediately obvious whether they can keep up or not.
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You can try saying some of that stuff.
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But for you - if they can't cut it - maybe all you have to do is tell them that you were looking for someone with more experience, and thank them.
In other words - just tell them the truth.
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Tell them that when you hear of a band in their style, you'll let them know. You can even ask them if they know of anyone for you.
Then - stay in touch with them . . . network.

I am not a pro at all Alex, but I have had exsperence of late with this. I to am trying to start my own project instead of joining some band that just says lern these songs and show up for rehersal. I have had two people come buy , a bassest and a guitar player both said they had been playing for years, but both where like giving lessons. Im no teacher. I just havnt set annything else up with eather. I can mayby get some tips from this thread.


PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

philbymon, J-HALEY, RhythmMan_BluesRockFolk

Thank you guys for all the info. Good stuff. I learn on this forum every day.
Tomorrow is the day 2 of auditions. I am off to the studio... Now where is my black leather chair in which I shall sit with my legs crossed and a poker face on. (Just kidding)

Good luck to you too Charles (EDDY) and do not settle for anything I would not!

I met up with a drummer last year and we formed our current band. We spent the next 10+ months auditioning people looking for the right fit. We've had some really bad auditions. This is just my advice:

I gotta say, first and foremost, be honest. It helps in every way.

I think honesty - good honesty and not cruel honesty - is key.

For whatever reason, posers seem to in high supply in music circles. Everyone oversells themselves. Humility seems like a rare trait. I think bringing some honesty to the table is a good thing.

You don't have to cruel, and I don't suggest it, but don't be passive-aggressive either. That advice about, "I'll call..." and then not calling, that's b.s. Don't be that guy. Be straight with people. They might not like the answer, but you'll feel better about yourself for being honest and you might just earn some respect as a straight shooter.

For instance, the bass player you mentioned. We had some auditions like that. You don't have to come out and say, "Man, you sucked", but you have to be honest. Find a legitimate reason to turn the guy away.

And if you have other people auditioning, be honest about that too. If a guy or gal doesn't blow me away, I'm going to say, "Hey, we've got a couple other people we've promised auditions to, and it wouldn't be fair to them for us to make a judgment on you before we've heard them. We'll be in touch after everyone has had their chance to show us their stuff." That's honest, and you can live with that.

Another thing that works is trying to find an honest reason to turn a person down, but not the main reason.

For instance, we had a guy try out for the vocalist in our band. He sold himself as having this great voice and really wanting to do rock music. So I gave him a list of three songs to learn. He shows up not really knowing any of the songs at all, but he did have this walkman with him that he bought at a yard sale that had a tape in it with some of the songs on it. I was like, What?

Anyway, we're there already so let's try and do a song. Well, his timing is all off, he keeps missing his marks, etc. Eventually he suggests that he put the walkman headphones on and sing to the song, and WE come in and play along with his singing! I mean, talk about nuts... And we tried it, but it was impossible to figure out exactly when to come in and the beat was off. Horrible experience.

And afterwords, as he's on his way out, he puts us on the spot: "So, when we doing this again?"

I turned to my drummer, looked at him, and turned back to the guy and said, "Well, we're not going to make a decision right this second. We have to talk about it. We each probably heard different things, so we need to reconcile what we heard and get on the same page about your performance. We'll call you."

And then we DID call him. And we turned him down. But not because he sucked bigtime and didn't know the songs. In the end, we told him (honestly) that his vocal style didn't really suit us. He had a much more country-sounding voice, and we're a rock band. That was truth, and a good truth. It gave us an honest reason to turn him down, without us having to get rude and mean about his lack of timing and skills.

Anyway... I'd say be honest. Say what you think. If a guy stinks, he stinks. You gotta let him know he's not going to work for what YOU want. That doesn't mean he can't work somewhere else, with some other band, just not yours.

I wasn't on the list, but I'll chip in
With all due respect to the Phil-meister, I don't think you should tell em you'll be in touch. Just tell em: "You just don't fit into what we're doing."

Andrew, that was admittedly the weakest of my 4 suggestions, but seriously - knowing me as little as you do - which one of the 4 do you think I use most often in r/l?

haha Phil, I dunno. You'd probably wait 2 minutes in that hell called a jam and then grab him by the back of his shirt and give him the ol' kick in the ass.. along with a "don't ever step into this area again.. EVER!"

Yea, I dunno either.

Alexander,

Just say no.

or

You suck

Seriously though,
This is a good topic

Make a commitment to yourself and\or your other band mates, that you are not going to make a final decision until you auditioned a reasonable number of potential players. Make this understood to all people auditioning in advance, and you will less probably find yourself in an uncomfortable position. Take whatever anyone tells you in advance over the phone with "a grain of salt". The live session will reveal the truth.

good luck with your search,
HJ

Yeah, speaking of the phone . . . there's something else I do when interviewing musicians and singers.
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See, I talk about music best when I've got a guitar in my hands.
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Seven chords set to a good rhythm will say more than 100,000 words . . .
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So, when talking to them on the phone - I put them on speaker, pull out my guitar, and play parts of several songs. Because, not knowing me - they might've thought that I was overexaggerating as much as they are.
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My playing tells them right away what to expect.
It also cuts through 10,000 words of bull crap . . .
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Once I show them that I am for real - the Bull crap stops dead.
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I've saved myself countless wasted hours by doing this.

haha Phil, I dunno. You'd probably wait 2 minutes in that hell called a jam and then grab him by the back of his shirt and give him the ol' kick in the ass.. along with a "don't ever step into this area again.. EVER!"

Yea, I dunno either.

Andrew! I only do that at open mics!

LOL!

HEY PHILBY, Remind me to stay away from your open mic sesions.


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PEACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!