General Music Chat

Anybody ever use contracts or otherwise binding agreements within a band (i.e., between band members)?

Kinda scared of it myself, but the issue has come up recently with my band. Our drummer begged me to get him into the band, but now he acts like we're just keeping him busy until something better comes along. We are working on a pretty busy schedule this year, and certainly don't want him to bail on us right as we get started!!
I gotta make one other point: The drummer is pretty good, and has played for about 16 years. The problem is..., well, the guy's just a little immature. He makes statements like this: "If we open up for a big name band, what if I'm better than their drummer?" -or- "What if somebody sees us play some time and offers me a bunch of money to play in their band?"
He's a good kid, and I think he enjoys being part of the band...but he's got his head in the clouds, and his daydreaming about being the next big thing is causing insecurity with the rest of the band. We want to know that we can count on him.

I think that having him sign some kind of contract might bring him down to earth, but it also might send him runnin' for the hills.

Any thoughts?

If your schedule is busy and your drummer bolts don't worry, a gigging band will always attract better musicians. You'll have a replacement in no time. I wouldn't worry about a contract. If you haven't already I would start contacting drummers and have a few lined up to replace him as soon as he leaves.

someone has some dues to pay...

cut him. find someone that plays for the love of playing.
Audiences don't give a rats's ass if he's a better drummer.

A contract? I'd never sign one in a band situation.

Being in a band isn't about self...

Chances are pretty good there's another drummer in the waiting. Sure, he might not be as technically great as your present God's gift to percussion, but he'll dig what your doing....and THAT is what an audience will hear!

have fun first!

joseph6 Have you talked to your drummer about it? Openly, without any implications, politics and other BS. I would ask him straight up. What are your plans? What do you want? Do you want to be in my band or not? Look at his reaction. Read between the lines.

If he still got his head up his ass, then cut him loose. You have a CD, you can attract drummers.

Just my $0.02 since you ask anyone's opinion.

joseph6,
Forget it.
If he's said that stuff, then it's already too late.
Stat looking NOW to replace him.
No way in hell can you count on him.

so ya got yourself a rockstar eh......
from my experience guys with that kind of attitude, well they'll cut your throat in a minute to get ahead!

A band, or a "group" has to have some loyalty and a belief that your all going in the same general direction.
There is no instant gratification in this business other than stage time.


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Yep, look to replace him. Don't let on until you have a viable replacement, & then tell him you couldn't count on him to be a part of it all. Hopefully he'll grow up a bit before he joins another project, but if he doesn't, at least he won't be YOUR problem.

Had this problem myself a while back with a drummer that wouldn't commit to anything but the most $. Hell, that frikken drunk guitar player was like that, too. Flook 'em & feed 'em beans on their way out the door. They aren't worth your time & trouble, but at least they know most of your material so's they can fill in at the last moment sometime, if you should need it & they are free. That's about all they're good for.

No sense working with ppl you hafta worry about. I have enough worried in my life elsewhere.

Joseph6 wrote6 wrote>>>He makes statements like this: "If we open up for a big name band, what if I'm better than their drummer?" -or- "What if somebody sees us play some time and offers me a bunch of money to play in their band?"

Simple make him aware that it can happen not just to drummers but to bass, guitar players, singers as well and to anyone who is part of a band.

I'd ask the guy if he gets an offer from a band what would he do? so the rest of the band members can do the same.

After that he has to decide if to stay in a band which can break up at any moment due to his way of thinking.

I'd also make him aware that if he receives any offers it's because he got exposed through the band he currently works with and to use the band as a lunching pad for his personal gain would piss off the rest of the band members.

performer's contracts are actually a great way to lay down expectations and control these types of band members. It also is good for him as it goes both ways.

What you need first is a de-facto leader of the band. If your band operates as a democracy, it will never work. As a band leader (if that's you), you should see an entertainment lawyer and have him draw up a general "performer" contract that spells out the basics about expectations, rehearsals, gigs, drinking rules (if you don't want alcoholics), and of course pay.

It's not that expensive (few hundred dollars) and gives the band leader a legal avenue to ensure that members don't just drop out and screw the rest of the band, for whatever reason(s). Now, people are flakes and will often times walk out on a contract anyways, but at least when you have one, it tends to make those types of members think twice about that sh*t, thus removing their head from the clouds.

If you schedule is that booked, and you think you will lose gigs and time if you lose your drummer, then I would say go for it, worst thing is he refuses to sign it and leaves the band, which I would bet was inevitable anyways if that happens.

my band SOTB has contracts, very well written ones with no loops.
He wants a big crowd, and the attention he thinks he desirves.

Plus why cant he be part of 2 bands?
I've been part of multiple bands at the same time, but I wouldnt LEAVE one for another. They're all something I enjoy.

For a simple bar band a contract would be an issue for most folks.

If you have bought a PA as a group then there should be some sort of contract. One I was in one time made you forfeit ownership of the equipment if you quit. This makes people stay in once you have any equity in the eguipment. It keeps someone from quitting and trying to claim gear.

If you are doing iany kind of real tour, you can bet your ass you will have to sign a contract. If you use a manager or booking agent you will need contracts of some sort.

I always thought if I started a brand new group I would write up something, and in fact I did. No one wanted to take it seriously.

If you are going to do this for money at some point you will sign some sort of contracts with someone.

Ive never heard of a member thinking about dropping out of a group cause hes better than the others. I would grab him by the throat hold him up against the wall and say Buddy Make A Choice To Either Stay Or GO!
Im just kidding about that, but if you have gigs lined up you need to get some sort of understanding that he is a part or just partime. If he bows up I would begin looking for a replacement. In fact I would start looking anyway without telling him. As mentioned above if you are actively gigging other musicians seem to come to you, or they do to my band anyway. We have no plans to upset our chemistry at this point.

I played in 2 groups last year. I told the secondary group that Aint Yo Mama was my priority up front. I kept them informed as we started picking up gigs so they could plan around me, and when it got to hecktick to continue I told them I was getting out. The problem with most bands is that noone communicates the goals and intentions of the band. I book most of our shows and handle the business side, which can become a job in of itself. But Im constantly in communication with the members as far as dates and pay. We are booked into April now and tonight I am working on a couple of May dates but I dont cover a weekend without clearing it with my bandmates in advance. Ive gotten them to tell me weekends when they may be out of town or just cant do a gig. I did recently cancell a Valenstines Day gig because a member had a conflict. I immediately go in touch with the club and worked an alternate date.

On that note if you are the band leader I would get some of those calendars that have squares for dates like you stick on your refrigerator, get every member one and ring the dates booked iin red and sit down with everyone involved and make sure they are all on the same page. While your at it, get them to scratch out any weekends in another color that they cant play so you dont book something. At first on our myspace I would cover dates with make believe gigs so that if an club owner looked they could see when we were available and plus it looked like we were busy as all get out. Well that backfired on me. I wrote in a date for my daughters birthday party at my house, she turned 12. At midnight I had a van load of folks that come to our gigs show up at my house wanting to party. That was interesting.

Learn how to communicate some how to band mates and you will be ahead of the curve.

Also communicate with club or gig folks so there are no misunderstandings. The more professional you are in this aspect you are the better things will go for you down the road.

Joseph - in my experience, the guy you're describing is a flake, &, as a flake, he won't pay attention to any contract or ANY type of agreement, most likely. He simply can't take it seriously, if he's constantly on the lookout for his "big break." Obviously, he doesn't look at you as being a part of that big break. Dump his lil candy ass & move on, if you can. Use him only as long as you must, then keep him in the wings as a backup if your reg drummer can't make a gig for some reason.

What will you do if he breaks his contract? Sue him? That won't repair your tarnished rep after he's flaked out on you, & it will cost you money to do it, too.

It just comes down to the fact that he probably isn't worth your efforts in the 1st place.

I'd advertise for a drummer under a different nic, & if he answers it, get some tracks from him & then tell him he isn't good enough for ya. That oughta cool his lil head a bit, & in the meantime, you may find someone you CAN work with & depend on.

He doesn't sound like a dude who will sign a contract with you, guys, simply because you're not playing the Vegas shows and such.
Just level with him. Have a man-to-man talk. No bullshyt. Straight-up.
"You thinkin bout leaving, give us notice to have enough time to replace you for our gigs." As simple as that.
A full band contract might complicate the way things flow with the rest of the guys, imo.

Man, I really do appreciate all the replies (getting that input is well worth the membership fees, IMO). It seems like everyone had similar thoughts on how to handle the situation-kick him to the curb!
Not long after my OP, I talked to our keyboardist, who is an original member of the band. We discussed at length the variables in the situation, and eventually came to the conclusion that HE IS GONE!! The bottom line is that we are working really hard at building a successful band (i.e., steady gig schedule, following, hell, even merch!), and we simply can't deal with a member who might leave at any time if he thinks he's found something better. We are well ahead of schedule, and have ample time to find a replacement.
As far as the contract goes, you guys are right (the keyboardist made the same point about how there are basically no repercussions for violating the contract). Dedication has been an issue for me (in regards to other band members) since I started in music. Right now, there are three of us that BELIEVE wholeheartedly in what we are doing. I just wish there was some way to secure commitment from less passionate bandmates (especially without going a legal route. )

Thanks again, folks.

I'm a little late Joseph. But what the hell.
You said it yourself. He is too immature to be in a serious working project.
And THAT is the name of that tune.