General Music Chat

If you come upon a towering, 20ft thick wall of concrete that is between you and where you want to be, and you are dead set on getting past it, what do you do?
Bludgeon the stone? Chip away at it? Try to climb over it?
Or do you remember that it's only a wall after all, that walls dont extend forever, and go around it?

Dont focus on the face of the wall.

You are right Krammerguy ... If you want to play the A or B circuit your band will need an agent. Having said that I don't know any bands that play these circuits that have a day job ... they tour the circuit steedy playing 3 nights a week and are book a year in advance. They are also having to travel farther because there are fewer of these club left.

Some one said: "There is no worth death than the death of hope."
Now the big question is what can be done to change all of that?

The only filter that I am seeing is what I will call a "pedigree". This has been happen for quite a while but it seem to be gaining speed.

What I mean by pedigree is that to get your songs on the radio, MTV or whatever, where you can get high expossure, you need industry names on your work.

I played with the Sleddogs a month ago. They are working on a new CD ( I think their 3rd one). On this CD they have Johnny Fay (The Tragically Hip) on drums, produced and mixed by Rich Chycki (Rush, Aerosmith) and Mastered by Bob Ludwig (Rolling Stones, U2, Led Zeplin). This in a way (to me) is a filter ... it costs big buck to have these people working for you, so only the bands or artists making money off CD & merch sales and large fan base to support it.

So this CD has a pedigree. It's not that Johnny Fay is a great drummer becauses he's not, but his name helps validate the CD. As do Rich and Bob.

This does not help you when you are starting out. There is no replacement to hard work. Improving your craft, learn how to entertain (grab the audience), learn how to play in a band (this is as important as knowing how to play), play with people that are better than you. Learn muilt genre's and styles.

Ron

The only filter that I am seeing is what I will call a "pedigree". This has been happen for quite a while but it seem to be gaining speed.

What I mean by pedigree is that to get your songs on the radio, MTV or whatever, where you can get high expossure, you need industry names on your work.

I played with the Sleddogs a month ago. They are working on a new CD ( I think their 3rd one). On this CD they have Johnny Fay (The Tragically Hip) on drums, produced and mixed by Rich Chycki (Rush, Aerosmith) and Mastered by Bob Ludwig (Rolling Stones, U2, Led Zeplin). This in a way (to me) is a filter ... it costs big buck to have these people working for you, so only the bands or artists making money off CD & merch sales and large fan base to support it.

I really can't comment too much on the validity of this sentiment, you are certainly correct that the more big "inside" people you have supporting and engineering your work, the more exposure to the industry media you will have.

At the same time, I would like to hope that not every famous band out there had to shovel that much money (& blood, sweat, and tears) at the middlemen of the industry in order to get quality airplay. Certainly, especially with today's altered landscape, there are national acts that did the DIY method and bypassed the status-quo all on their own.

I don't spend much time reading band bio's, so I honestly cannot say, but from what industry material that I've read, I certainly am led to believe that many of the "old rules" no longer apply, at least in the same context that they once did. I again refer back to what Dick Dale had to say on that matter. Also, there's a site called gigdoggy that has amazing insightful info from musicians who are working in the field which seems to suggest that the DIY method might now BE the status-quo.

Seems like all the "industry" has to offer is britney and nickelback clones anyways. I dunno.

Dick Dale was well known in the 1960's (surf music) he has a library, he has history .... he made it in a time when the public wanted live bands. He is known King of the Surf Guitar, he help come up with a new sound was easier in the 1960's there were only a few genre's, Rock & Roll, R&B, Pop, and the start of what we call Classic Rock. Coming up with a new sound is harder today. I'm not saying it can't be done.

I saw the vid you speak of. But you can't compair him to somebody starting out today. Things were way easier to get sign back then. Yes what he sez is true about labels and doing you own thing ... but I don't think he is a good example.

JMHO

Ron

Dont worry about 'new'. Worry about 'you'.
You can adopt an irish accent to hold a conversation with someone, and have a bunch of fun doing it, but generally we all want to express 'ourselves' and our personalities - whatever they may be.

Dont worry about inventing something new. Don't go out of your way to 'copy' something old.
Choose the best vehicle to help you express what ya wanna express. Then just be.

Dick Dale was well known in the 1960's (surf music) he has a library, he has history .... he made it in a time when the public wanted live bands. He is known King of the Surf Guitar, he help come up with a new sound was easier in the 1960's there were only a few genre's, Rock & Roll, R&B, Pop, and the start of what we call Classic Rock. Coming up with a new sound is harder today. I'm not saying it can't be done.

I saw the vid you speak of. But you can't compair him to somebody starting out today. Things were way easier to get sign back then. Yes what he sez is true about labels and doing you own thing ... but I don't think he is a good example.

JMHO

Ron

I was specifically referring to what he said, not his accomplishments. He was dead on.

Seems like all the "industry" has to offer is britney and nickelback clones anyways. I dunno.

I agree Kramerguy. Everytime I see or hear something "new" it almost ALWAYS sounds like something else I've already heard.

It would be easy to dismiss that perception thinking there has been so much music released over so many years, it's nearly impossible to create anything truly new, but I believe that's a load of bunk.

The fact is, almost everything I hear being called "new" sounds like something else I've heard RECENTLY, as in, within the past ten to fifteen years. That, to me, isn't new at all, other than the names involved.

The old school "industry" is still up to the same old way of doing things they always have been, but seemingly with fewer and fewer acts.

Even when they actually DO release something new and unique they STILL manage to ruin it by pushing overplay, just like they always have.

(edited)

Are things changing?

I hope the hell they are!

The question is, where is it all going? Where's the real money in it going to be a few years from now?

Although I haven't been around nearly as long as many of the old timers, I've seen enough of the revolving door process from the industry over the years to at least see how it churns-

Great new band comes out, new sound, new act, new fashion, everyone welcomes the change. I watched it happen in the 70's with disco, 70's hard rock/prog rock, the 80's new wave, 80's metal, grunge, etc..

Every single time that NEW sound comes out, the industry promotes bands that package (imitate)that new sound, make it more radio friendly, family friendly, let's call it "pop" and then mass produces it to the point that everyone gets sick of it, and then it's up to us (underground) to find the next new, anti-establishment sound.

What an ugly cycle lol.

What's different now is that it seems that since "grunge", which was also blended in with alternative and 'modern rock'.. there's nothing new.. the cycle should have turned 8-12 years ago, yet we're still bombarded with the same shitty music, over and over. Sure, I've heard some good new music here and there, but is any of it not a copy of teh same old? Sure, music is all a form of imitation, but it seems that the borders have melted and we're left with an industry that knows nothing but how to apply the same generic template to everything it touches.

Even they once knew how to scout and promote "new".. seems not so much anymore.

Whoa nellie, where did this all serious-like manure come from>?

This thread is as bad as the one about the aliens.. lol

Whoa nellie, where did this all serious-like manure come from>?

This thread is as bad as the one about the aliens.. lol

Hah, don't worry, I think you are immune to this kind of topic, you won't be infected.