General Music Chat

sigh...
In a perfect world, musicians would totally support each other and help each other out.
I heard tell thats how the Seatlle grunge scene came to explode. More of a communal attitude with the music scene. Underground punk rock brotherhood type of feel to it and all that.
Of, course... that could be totally false... but thats the rumor.

It was more than a rumour, that's exactly how the grunge movement came to be. Rent the movie Hype! for more info.

So... no, I dont support the local scene much. If a band comes a long that perks my ears up, I will go support them when I can.
Rarely happens though.

This is precisely the reason I started this thread. Too many expect to get gigs and draw people and get paid yet they won't be a part of the local scene. So they hang out in chat rooms. Get off the computer, go practice, and go see a local band, otherwise you're a leech.

What local music scene?

I am sorry I haven't been around much...it really is a good reason. I wanted to say that back in March, I went down the street to support a trio that was performing at a coffee shop. This group had a cool acoustic sound plus it was different. The band consisted of a guitarist who was also the lead singer, a cellist and a djembe player. I wanted to have these instruments in a music arrangement that I was working on. So I hired them that day to perform at my recital. You never know who or what your going to meet in a local venue.

I work as an educational assistant in the school system and the teacher asked these two girls, flute players, who are advanced in their ability, to perform for the class. The teacher wanted me to critique them. I refused, I am the audience and I wanted to just enjoy their performance. I did say that I was very pleased with their playing and that I looked forward to hearing more from them in the future.

my 2 cents, for what its worth, on the rivalry or animosity between musicians that someone mentioned...

in this area (a certain major metropolitan area) i feel musicians are the worst lot ive had contact with.

they are egotstical, snotty, and not into compromise (as if the greatest bands in history werent comprised of minds/talents coming from different directions). similarly to religious zealouts, they dont want to hear your ideas or musical pursuits, likes/dislikes, but damn they want to share THEIRS.

the older ones frown on you if you dont play the blues or anything thats not NPR friendly. the younger ones sneer if you arent pierced, wearing black (news bulletin: the "Korn look" is dated) and can growl.

you can be supportive and boisterous when you think a band has played well and tried very hard (like i am with my big mouth). it doesnt matter- another musician in the audience would say "well, they were ok, i guess". jealousy.

this is my experience, anyway.

It is in your best interest to support your local music scene because whether you are a gigging musician or a recording musician you need other people, to either come to your gig's or puchase your music, music is a very social thing and politics is a part of life there are alway's going to be negetive people out there whatever their motivations are, ignore those people because there are good people out there and those are the ones you are trying to reach.
Support your local music scene because it is part of the biz that you are in and you need other musicians whether you know it or not.
At this point in my career I don't really get nerveous no matter who is at the gig, when you do this for a long time you start to realize the only person I am competeing with is myself and I am my own worst critic because no one knows my weaknesses like I do and that is what I concentrate on the process of elimination! elimanating my weaknesses, and so far it has been an ongoing process that I would like to find an end to but not likely.
One thing I don't understand is people that set around saying; well the music scene around here sucks, well it is going to continue to suck untill someone doe's something about it, so instead of complaining get up and go change your scene because as I have already said it is in your own best interest. I guess I am lucky because there is a great music scene around here and there has been times in my career where I have set on the fence because I was to busy just trying to be the best musician I could be plus juggling the responsibilities of having a family but there has also been times more often than not that I have supported the local scene and it takes a bunch of bands just doing what we do and networking with each other, so what are you waiting for, Get out there and support your local music scene.

my 2 cents, for what its worth, on the rivalry or animosity between musicians that someone mentioned...

in this area (a certain major metropolitan area) i feel musicians are the worst lot ive had contact with.

they are egotstical, snotty, and not into compromise (as if the greatest bands in history werent comprised of minds/talents coming from different directions). similarly to religious zealouts, they dont want to hear your ideas or musical pursuits, likes/dislikes, but damn they want to share THEIRS.

the older ones frown on you if you dont play the blues or anything thats not NPR friendly. the younger ones sneer if you arent pierced, wearing black (news bulletin: the "Korn look" is dated) and can growl.

you can be supportive and boisterous when you think a band has played well and tried very hard (like i am with my big mouth). it doesnt matter- another musician in the audience would say "well, they were ok, i guess". jealousy.

this is my experience, anyway.

Sometimes, you gotta be an example. People who comment negatively actally have a low level of self esteem. Don't worry if you don't get the much deserved respect of fellow musicians. If you complement them, they should have no reason to look down on you. That don't mean that I am right...it's just an observation.

Wow - all this negativity.
I believe you guys and all, but - I never see it.
Never.
Every place I play, the audience is supportive, and the other musicians I've met are pretty nice people.
But what I've been reading here almost seems like a different planet than the one I live and play on . . .
Or are you guys going to dives, or something? Seriously - I dunno; just asking.
.
Maybe it's something to do with the punk / metal / hard rock crowd?
I don't play those styles, and never encounter the negative crap everyone seems to be talking about . . . and I mean never.
I play:
> rock
> jazz
> blues
> folk
> jazz-finger-picking
> some 'haunting' stuff
> some "Yes" - like material
> some songs akin to "Classical Gas"
> and a lot of other styles, too . . .
.
But - I don't play any music that sounds angry.
.
That may be the whole key to the clientel and the attitude.
. . . angry people aren't as fun to be around as happy folks . . .
.
. . . dunno . . .

Just play, no talk.

If you like what they play, well go on Mac Duff!

If you don't like it, ya just leave..

The more they talk about it, the bigger chance you won't like/ be conducive to what's going on.

Wow - all this negativity.
I believe you guys and all, but - I never see it.
Never.
Every place I play, the audience is supportive, and the other musicians I've met are pretty nice people.
But what I've been reading here almost seems like a different planet than the one I live and play on . . .
Or are you guys going to dives, or something? Seriously - I dunno; just asking.
.
Maybe it's something to do with the punk / metal / hard rock crowd?
I don't play those styles, and never encounter the negative crap everyone seems to be talking about . . . and I mean never.
I play:
> rock
> jazz
> blues
> folk
> jazz-finger-picking
> some 'haunting' stuff
> some "Yes" - like material
> some songs akin to "Classical Gas"
> and a lot of other styles, too . . .
.
But - I don't play any music that sounds angry.
.
That may be the whole key to the clientel and the attitude.
. . . angry people aren't as fun to be around as happy folks . . .
.
. . . dunno . . .

This is pretty much my experience. I have seen the negativity BUT, that shouldn't stop you from getting in their faces...doing what you do and do your best. There are others out their with similar goals, projects and that is who you are looking for. I think that it surprises people to see that the flute is such a versatile and cool instrument. Even if I were to play angry music, it would be happy to the ear. Afterall...it's the flute

There may be a music scene, but the PAID music scene is DISAPPEARING. There's some jam sessions (some of the host bands make 0$ believe it or not) and there's more and more jam band places (again no PAY). By "supporting" the local music scene does that mean I have to "support" places that DON'T PAY? If my only option is playing for free then I may as well concentrate solely on recording and attempting to sell CD's. Professional musicians should NEVER have to give their stuff away for free. I can't say the word "support" when it comes to my being a paid customer at a venue that doesn't pay anything to hard working musicians. Unfortuneately there's too many musicians who are dying to play in front of people and are willing to do it for free. I guess it's what the economy will bear. I don't like it and I don't have to "support" it. Sorry...

That's a very good point, Bob. By supporting local musicians who are playing for free, you're essentially taking money out of your own pocket. Why would a venue pay you to play, when they can get someone else for nothing?
As bad as it may sound, I would have to vote AGAINST supporting local music for that reason. If the audience is a majority of musicians, and those musicians stop showing up, then the venue has two choices: Give in and start paying for their entertainment, or; they'll stop having musicians altogether. The second part kinda sucks, but the only alternative is to convince ALL MUSICIANS not to play for free (and that will never happen).

I have to say that I believe that playing for free is par for the course. We don't advertise like other businesses so playing for free is actually economical. It gets your voice out there without having to pay for advertizing. However payment is the result and we have every right to expect payment for services rendered.. So there is that line that you have to cross and decide for yourself when services rendered should mandate payment. But never think that playing for free is a freebie.

I hope that i am expressing myself understanably. I don't mean that I think that we should no get paid. I do think that there are times that we need to play for free to advertise our craft. I play in a rock band once a month and I am happy to do so. It is free but it also gives me the opportunity to rub elbows with a class of people that once thought the flute is not a rock instrument. Now they see that it is not only a rock instrument...they say I bring class to the band.BTW, the band also plays for free. Now the lead singer and I are collaborating on a jazz piece that he wrote back in the eighties. Who knows what this might lead to.

A true musician would never play for free, only the want to be's play for free,
I turn down more gig's than my band plays (and I am the guy that books the gigs) and 100% of the gigs I turn down pay at least $125.00 a night.
IF YOU DON'T SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL PAYING MUSIC SCENE THEN YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!

Black57, I believe you to be an honorable person but I have to tell you I could not disagree with anyone more than I disagree with your last post.

A very good Female Bass player friend of mine would totally dis-agree with you the most, she is hands down the best bass player I have ever had the privilage of working with and an absolute pro.
She is a single black female supporting a son with her musical ability and let me tell you she has a lot of ability.
She is currently on tour with Mike Ward jazz violinist and I recently had the privilage of getting free tickets to go see him play at the Red Cat Jazz Cafe in downtown Houston on Mikes Birthday, A well known Sax player by the name of Kyle Turner was there (they always spend they're birthdays together) and the hair on my arms stands on end just remembering the single greatest musical moment I have ever witnessed in my 50 years.
Al Jaruexs Drummer was there and there was this beautiful young flute player playing jazz, and let me tell you she was unbelievable.

Anyway my point is you claim you are a proffesional, I am sorry but this attitude pisses me off, at the cost of promotting YOURSELF you are dragging down every pro.
This seems very selfish from my standpoint, you would not believe how many gigs I have showed up to play only to hear this ideaolgy.
Never ever should any true musician EVER PLAY FOR FREE.
I mean something or somebody pays your bills. WOULD YOU HAVE THEM HAVE THIS SAME MENTALITY please think about it?
I don't mean to sound like i am personally attacking you but this is very important and personal to me.
Incidentally my new guitar player magazine came in the mail today, and Hammet&Hetfeild of Metallica are on the cover if you go to page 20 there is an article (paragragh) on Pat Travers on Playing Well With Others and a guitar player from this area is mentioned because he is playing in the Pat Thrall spot of the Pat Travers band His Name Is Kirk McKim he was in my wifes high school graduating class of 1985!!!!!!!

The $125.00 A night is a per person after everything else is paid. I just wanted to clarify that.