General Music Chat

I am really trying to stay on your topic, Craig. You have yet to counter any of my arguments concerning the special interest you seem to have for the protection of women.

How can you justify what will happen in our court system if we continue these trends to write "specialty protection laws?"

How can you say that someone who performs a violent act against a woman is worthy of more punishment than one who hurts anyone else?

How can you possibly justify protecting any one group over others?

Why do you seem to think it's so much worse for someone to call Palin the "c" word than to call Obama a "terrorist?"

Calling Palin that only shows a lack of self control, taste & one's own lack of respect for us all. Calling Obama a terrorist brings up far more anger among us after 9/11, & possibly will cause some misguided idiot to actually try to kill him "for the good of the country," Craig. It's been shown that there HAS been someone planning to do that very thing. The "c" word & other "sexist" remarks have roused no one to acts like this.

I'd say that the right-wingers are more dangerous at this point than the left, & that your argument is based solely on your emotions concerning women's issues, & not anything at all that requires any action on the part of our law-makers.

Where's your logic on these issues?

There were over 50 million killed worldwide during World War II. There's been over 50 million abortions IN THE UNITED STATES ALONE since Roe v. Wade. What the hell did we fight World War II for???

hold it hold it... so you're telling me you buy into that whole bullshit that war is meant to be fought against human suffering? BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! goddamn man...

lol.

Phil,i see your point clearly,most chicks i know would be pissed to be classified into the victom pool just because of their gender.
Victims are victims,nothing more nothing less.

I read about those Nazi cunts from,Mississipi was it?Either way i can tell thats not good at all,America already has a bad global rep,with being known a greedy,"i'm always right" nation(just going by the standard view)..and if anything would happin like that,being known as a greedy,know it all,racist nation won't be good for any American.

Welcome to the forum, austin.

As you can see, we're really quite the friendly bunch!

Liked your post here, too!

LOL

I don't place any more emphasis on Obama's "association" with Ayers or take it any more seriously than Palin's "association" with Vogler

Well, there is no association to Vogler apparently. It seems that he was dead, before Palin's husband joined that party. I think it is Palin's husband and not Palin who was a member of that party though.

I need to check into this more to verify the details I have read about so far. I heard something about this awhile back, but almost simultaneously, saw a headline that the original source for this story had retracted and apologized. I guess I thought it was a dead issue.

UPDATE: Just checked. Well, I don't consider it a dead issue now that I have looked into it.

Thanks for the heads-up Steve!


Well, it is not as bad as some have made it out to be, but it is not benign either, at least to me. I think it is a serious judgment issue, and it concerns me.


NOT SO BAD:

Palin's husband was a member, not Palin herself.

Palin did make a "welcome video" for that party's convention, where she said that "competition is good" even "competition between parties" and wished for them an inspiring and successful convention. Not earth shattering considering that is basically part of her job.

Yes, this party advocates "bringing to a vote" the issue of Alaskan secession, but this is hardly comparable to the terrorist Bill Ayers. It may be extreme to wish for secession, but it is not illegal. This goes to the heart of how far "state's rights" should go. The Constitution does not prohibit secession. And none of the arguments or previous court cases involving secession, whether for or against, are airtight. For example, it has been argued that the union was meant to be "indestructible, just as states are meant to be indestructible" but this falls short when you consider that Massachusetts divided itself into what we now call Maine and Massachusetts and similarly Virginia became Virginia and West Virginia. If a state separates itself into pieces, hasn't that original state, in effect, been "destroyed" with two new states taking it's place?

Additionally, there was discussion by some democratic figures in 2004 suggesting the idea that maybe the blue states should secede en masse, effectively dividing the country in two. They were angered at Bush's re-election. Which brings up the point, that it is usually anger and frustration over politics and policies of the federal government that illicit such talk, whether serious or joking. And along those lines, as one commentator noted, "movements of secession are rarely serious, and instead are meant to convey how serious certain issues are to the relevant state. So, it is almost a media ploy for attention to their issues.


NOT SO GOOD:


Ok, so it wasn't Palin herself, so what?

I would probably divorce my wife if she joined such a movement. Not even joking.

I don't see secession as "revolutionary" or following in the tradition of the forefather's by asserting independence or just shaking government up in general. Secession movements are helping sew the seeds of disunity and destructiveness in our country, it does not help our country. It is almost unimaginable that the Supreme Court would even "consider" reviewing a case involving secession, let alone be moved to "rule" on such an issue. This just isn't going to happen, so why stir sh*t up, rather than work things out, with your fellow citizens?

I don't care that she wasn't involved directly.

Why not take a stand for the preservation of our union, rather than playing with it's potential division?

Stupid.

Very poor judgment.

You need to find out about Obama's supposed drive for the "redistribution of wealth," Craig. That has been explained well enough to us all that I needn't repeat it other than to say that it was a sentence taken out of context.

Explained well enough to US ALL? By who? Our dear leader Obama? He explained it to "us all" very well did he? OMG that is so obsequious!

Let's just call Obama "Big Brother" (1984) and be done with it?

Hey, the telescreen is coming on! Let's just buy what they feed us, cause remember... "Big Brother is watching you!"


Are you satisfied with Bush's explanation of why we went into Iraq? Why not? He personally "explained it to us all" didn't he? Apparently that settles it for you, right?

Obama is no more a communist than McCain.

Did I call Barack a communist? He is a believer in socialism. Yes, they are both Marxist based ideologies, and Marx believed socialism to be a transitional state between Capitalism and Communism. Like a political gateway drug. LOL

But they are not the same thing.

What they do share, is the belief that Capitalism is an unfair system, which allows for wealth to be unequally divided, so to correct this, socialists believe in, well gee...

"The redistribution of wealth" (sound familiar?) so that it is more evenly distributed among the populace.

your comparison between Ayers & Hitler is laughable, & designed to outrage us all, but it just doesn't hold water

There's nothing laughable about it. I am not saying that Ayers is in Hitler's league, but this is a matter of degrees. These are both whacko extremists, unsavory characters, who have broad designs on the world, and both engaged in indefensible acts of terrorism, justified through their extreme political views.

Ok, Hitler bothers you. Of course he does. So should Ayers. Seeing him step on the flag alone, is enough to get my blood boiling. F*ck him and f*ck anyone else who lacks the heart for this country to such a degree, that seeing someone desecrate our nation's flag doesn't stir up strong feelings within them.

It is one thing to support someone's right to demean their own country and it's ideals. It is another thing altogether to respect such an act, whether directly, or indirectly through silence, or suggesting it is meaningless.

& I fail to see how Ayers' views are any more dangerous than Vogle's.

Maybe because Vogler didn't engage in terrorist acts, unlike Ayers, who personally set off bombs in a police headquarters, the Pentagon and the Capital building among others. And because Ayers believes that Capitalism should be destroyed and replaced with communism?

Did Obama give Ayers a "shout out" to his cause, or tell him to "keep up the good work,"like Ms Palin did?

Got me there Phil, you brilliant son of a gun!

A video of Palin welcoming "competition in politics" and wishing them well, on their convention, is certainly a far greater "shout out" than say, having your first political fundraiser in a TERRORISTS OWN LIVING ROOM, and then writing an endorsement for said-terrorist's book, and working closely with said-terrorist as they doled out 100 Million dollars in Chicago to the liberal causes they both endorsed, and consulting with said-terrorist on policy issues, serving with said-terrorist on numerous boards, accepting campaign donations from said-terrorist.

Thanks for setting me straight Phil!

You really have this one in perspective.

Gee, I see that I only listed 6 distinct and close personal ties between Obama and Ayers, and for Palin and Vogler you listed, umm...well technically "0" since Vogel was dead when Palin sent that video to AIP's convention opening, but it "IS" the party he founded, right? So, we'll give you a "1".

6 to 1

Thanks for showing me the light Phil, although the math still doesn't quite add up for me, I trust you. That must be one heavy ass video to offset the decade long relationship (13 years minimum actually) and MANY numerous examples of Obama and Ayers continued relationship.

Postage must have been ridiculously expensive for all that weight!

Gawd your smart!

I am really trying to stay on your topic, Craig. You have yet to counter any of my arguments concerning the special interest you seem to have for the protection of women.

I actually did start writing something for that, but had to leave it unfinished earlier, cause I had alot of stuff to do today (oops, that's yesterday now - LOL). Then when I got back home, I started reading responses first, and there were alot, so I answered a few of the ones that jumped out at me right then.

I'll finish that later, and a few other comments you sent. But I'm tired as hell (up for 2 days so far) and I haven't even checked my band's MySpace site today.

Band!

Oh sh*t - I have band practice tonight. ARGH!!!

I'M TIRED!!!!

I'll catch up on those sometime today. I'll make the "woman" issue a priority though. Sorry about that.

Actually, I'm looking forward to addressing some of Kramer's later responses. Some of them were really good, and I had to agree with a few of them.

Don't worry, I'm never afraid to admit I've learned something new, or that someone's points have made me see things in a new way. I'll be sure and mention what I found myself agreeing with.

Good night!

Or Good morning I guess!

Why doesn't everyone do something usefull, like judge the man by the work he does as President?!There's an idea,if you can give a man like Bush a chance...or two,he sure the hell deserves one...anyone does.This terrorist sh*t amongst your own people is getting tired,you do know other place's in the world consider George W. Bush to be a warlord and terrorist right?

The "redistributing of wealth",is taken highy out of context,here the more money you get the bigger the taxes

Gee, that's what we ALREADY do here too bro:

Top 1% pays 39.89% of the country's taxes.

Top 5% pays 60.14% of the country's taxes.

Top 10% pays 70.79% of the country's taxes.

Top 25% pays 86.27% of the country's taxes.

Top 50% pays 97.01% of the country's taxes.


Bottom 50%?

They pay a whopping 2.99% of the country's taxes.

The bottom 50% of the country pays less than 3% of our nation's taxes.

Those damn rich people. Will the abuses never end?

40% is not enough to take from them. Hey, let's take half of everything they own!

Hey, we're working hard and building wealth now, huh?

Wait, let's make it 60%!!!!

Yeah, we'll take 60% of everything they've worked for!!!

Man, you and me are really working up a sweat now! Where would our country's be without us? Who knew wealth creation was so easy? Just take it from those who earned it! And we'll pass it around to ourselves!

It seems so dirty somehow, but you're probably right!

Theft is actually a moral value!

Your the same people!!,you live in the same country!,stop being selfish and greedy.

Brilliant!

Why didn't I see it before?

It is greed isn't it?

Working hard all your life for something, and then believing that the government taking 40% of the money you worked for is enough. That's just plain greed right there!

Those bastards! Let's take 80% of their money! That'll teach them to try and stop the bloodletting at 40% huh?

I'm such a moron!

Last time I checked my IQ it was about 12 points less than Einstein's was believed to be.

I always thought I was pretty smart, but you guys are wiping the floor with my ass and making me look like a friggin' idiot here!


Oh yeah,

And since you have shown me the error of my ways, I am FULLY on board for this redistribution stuff!

So...

To keep it real, umm.... Paleopete has like 8 guitars or more, and I only have 2, so I'm gonna have to take a couple of his guitars for myself. He can afford it though, right?

What are you giving me Steve?

I'm sooooo excited about your vision now!

Cause I only have one amp and 2 or 3 1/4 inch cords, oh, and I'm low on pics right now and money? All paid out in bills. Got NO MONEY right now!

How much do YOU have? Can you go count it right now? Cause you're gonna have to give me some of it. Fair is fair, right?

Can you overnight it to me?

Thanks bro!

Just leave off one or two cords to offset the shipping.

Hell, it's really the money I need anyway.

When can I expect it?

lol,Thats got to be the most annoying sarcasim i've ever read,especially from a fully grown adult.

Your taxes are obviously not in check and distributed stupidly,if they weren't,there wouldn't be so many dilemmas and people with out health coverage,so what would there really be too lose if you try other more succesful economic polices.

And a Government that has so much money for wars, but can't feed there poor,has some real problems.
Someway,somehow, you've convinced yourself that the rich are not treated better then the poor,and with so many people with your mentality,no wonder theirs so many issues in America.

Also i wouldn't brag about your IQ,Bush also has a good IQ,but he still lacks common sense,and is hugely out of touch with the real world.

You obviously like to follow in the negative American sterotype,and your hopeless mentality is sickening, and it's people like you that make others lose faith in America,keep it up bud!

Craig, If you are going to cite facts and figures, I'd like to ask you to provide links to valid sites (not blogs or editorials) that can confirm the validity of them.

Those tax numbers seem extremely skewed. And if they are not, the only thing I'm seeing by them is that the growing disparity between rich and poor is even worse than I thought.

(*edited out a bit here)
I just read your post about responding later. I wait with anticipation.

Eat the rich, they either taste like pork or chicken..

Eat the rich, they either taste like pork or chicken..

That was a cool movie.

lol,Thats got to be the most annoying sarcasim i've ever read,especially from a fully grown adult.

There was nothing juvenile about my sarcasm. If you guys weren't flipping your lids with your political hatred, you would have noticed how humorous the sarcasm was.

I think that the sarcasm was perfectly "grown up" in nature.

If only I could say the same about your spelling, punctuation and grammer!


Goddamit! More sarcasm.

Sorry. I'm hopeless. :roll;

Your taxes are obviously not in check and distributed stupidly

Well be consistent.

Which is it?

You suggested we have a graduated tax, and guess what?

We do!

Now that you have found that out, suddenly it is "stupid"?

It was your suggestion to begin with.

I'll leave it at that.

so what would there really be too lose if you try other more succesful economic polices.

Like which one?

You suggested the graduated tax.

When shown that we already have that.

You then called it "stupid"

But feel free to float some more ideas.

And a government that has so much money for wars

What? Our government has money for these wars? Could you let us know where it is, cause as far as we can tell, WE DON'T HAVE MONEY for these wars, which is why we are borrowing it from China.

Which is why we will be suffering for this debt for awhile.

but can't feed there poor,

I haven't seen any starving Americans.

Well... Does Nicole Richie count?


But seriously.

I haven't seen any starving Americans.

Homeless yes. Starving? No.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but we are one of the most obese nations on Earth. Is that a byproduct of starvation?

This just gets more and more ridiculous.

That's it. I'm gonna have to stay with sarcasm.

Someway,somehow, you've convinced yourself that the rich are not treated better then the poor

Treated better how?

Tax wise? Clearly that is not the case. As shown already.

Better standard of living?

Well, when you are successful financially, and work hard to keep it so, you can afford the highest standard of living. You earned it. You paid for it. It's your money. Why not?

and with so many people with your mentality,no wonder theirs so many issues in America.

What's my mentality? How does it contribute negatively to my society?

I'm interested to know. Seriously.

Also i wouldn't brag about your IQ,Bush also has a good IQ,but he still lacks common sense,and is hugely out of touch with the real world.

Ding ding ding. Kudos to you!

You are probably one of the few people on here I guess, that know that Bush actually has a very high IQ, which is why when the media was mocking his alleged lack of intelligence, they were quite surprised when they discovered that Bush actually had higher college scores than John Kerry did.

And you are correct sir, a high IQ does not necessarily mean, one has "common sense" or even "wisdom" for that matter.

My IQ supposedly puts me in the top half of a percent in the world.

But my emotional IQ, particularly when I was younger, has undermined that intelligence many times. In the past I have built up, for example, a successful business which employed 20 people in 2 states, allowed me to have whatever musical equipment I wanted, whenever I wanted. Bought me a house in the mountains, etc... etc...

I got divorced and probably blew 80 grand in strip clubs right after, within a month or so. Let my business go to hell. Just didn't care, wasn't thinking straight, because even though the divorce was the right thing to do, I was distraught over it.

You obviously like to follow in the negative American sterotype,and your hopeless mentality is sickening, and it's people like you that make others lose faith in America,keep it up bud!

Well, I'm sorry that I make you "sick".

Socialism is against American ideals.

And if you love it so much, why is it, that YOU do not move to a socialist country? Canada is NOT socialist BTW.

We didn't win the cold war, only to turn the keys over anyway, and buy into the tired old class-warfare bullsh*t that you are pitching. Socialism and Communism don't work. We have the benefit of historical hind sight to see that this true.

And don't hold Canada up as a shining example of successful socialism.

Did I mention that Canada is NOT socialist?


You wanna make real claims against Americans?


Try these...


America has often been hypocritical in it's support of Democracy and Freedom throughout the world. We preach Democracy and yet have supported brutal dictators, who terrorize their own people. Those people really needed liberation. Think they will get it from us? If they have oil they will. If not? Oh well.


Many Americans are geographical illiterates.


I'll finish this later...

I'm literally falling asleep in my chair right now.

Craig, If you are going to cite facts and figures, I'd like to ask you to provide links to valid sites (not blogs or editorials) that can confirm the validity of them.

Those tax numbers seem extremely skewed.

My bad bro!

Absolutely proper to ask for URL's so you can verify the info and be sure it isn't from wacky propagandists.

I'm usually better about that...


The tax breakdown comes from the National Taxpayers Union

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

It's a nonpartisan group, which advocates for taxpayers, and seeks to achieve goals like "A Balanced Budget Amendment" and our moving to a "flat tax" or "fair tax" system of taxation, etc...


Seriously though, I didn't realize this was going to be controversial. You can hear these approximate stats being quoted on Conservative and Independent news all the time. I forget that you may not hear this breakdown on more liberal networks, which is understandable considering that stats like these, suddenly makes their case harder to sell, namely that the wealthy don't pay enough taxes and should pay more.

Eat the rich, they either taste like pork or chicken..