General Music Chat

Trying to relate womens rights to the holocaust?
Woops...

tsk tsk tsk

The more laws we write to comfort these special interest groups, no matter how well-intentioned they may be, the more we will exacerbate the overloading of our courts, as well. That is because you will have innumerable laws a person may have broken instead of simply one - the hurtful handling of another with evil intent.

Just look at the cost it took to convict the police in the Rodney King case alone! They were tried on inumerable counts until they were finally caught "violating his civil rights." what total BS!!!!

Same thing happened with OJ Simpson. Ppl just kept trying him until something stuck. When he was found "not guilty" in the very 1st trial, it should have ended there, whether or not he was guilty of the crime. That is what our forefathers intended, & it is the correct way to handle such things.

The way things exist now, you can be sent to court to defend yourself quite a few times for a single offense. This will ruin you financially, & pretty much make certain that you will be found guilty eventually, whether or not you are indeed guilty of any crime at all.

Is this fair & rightful justice? I think not!

A single law can be written to protect us from each other. Write it & be done. "If you harm another with malicious intent, you will be punished in such & such ways, & reparations need to be made."

'Nuff sed.

You would have a person in court for the rest of his life, if he could afford it, being tried again & again for the same offense under as many names for an offense as you can come up with & write laws for. Or perhaps it would be better to just lump ALL of the offenses into a single action, & make him spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars to address each & every one, & waste the court's time listening to the same evidence again & again to counter each & every claim against the individual.

Stupid, that.

Keep it simple, in regular old layman's terms, so that we ALL can understand it, & follow through with it on every single case you're presented. That, my man, is justice.

It doesn't matter who the victim may be, or how many such ppl are targeted every day. STICK it to the perpetrator, assuage the victim as best you can, & move on.

Sorry if that seems so unsympathetic to your cause, but you seem to be putting way too much emphasis on crimes that happen to women, when thay also happen to far more ppl than just your preferred group, & saying that it's worse when it happens to one type of person over another is unfair to all of us. Stop it for all or stop it for no one, I say.

Craig,

Your anti-obama fearmongering is almost identical to the Hannity/O'Reilly/Limbaugh crazed world-is-going-to-end if he gets election reactionary politics. All the while, playing the victim about Palin. It reeks of hypocrisy on every level.

You forget just how scathing the GOP was regarding Hillary, and I don't recall similar outrage when the attacks on her were going on.

Half the reason Obama is winning in the polls is because people are SICK of the fearmongering, hateful campaigns, to which McCain PROMISED to run a clean campaign, yet soon as he started faltering in the polls, he switched to venomous and seething attacks. John Kerry proved to america that if you just try to take it in stride and be the bigger man, that common knuckle-dragging americans will evidently see you as a pu**y, and so Obama fights back.

And you have the audacity of spreading fear over democrats gaining power of the congress and white house, after 6 years of unchecked GOP plundering?!? It's going to take years just to restore the checks and balances the current administration and gop congress removed to enable all these lies, wars, plundering, and corporate welfare. It will probably take decades to get back to operating the country within it's budget. I can understand your desire to not have the president and congress be affiliated to the same party, but to claim the democrats are going to do what the republicans already did is beyond irony.

You claimed you are against obama becuase of how he votes, and his "affiliations", yet you never cite anything specific, like "he voted no on house bill 547" , instead of saying "he wants to cut 9 month old babies from their mother's wombs!". That's just not right. It's like those McCain ads running that claimed Obama wanted to and I quote "teach kindergartners about sex", when the reality was to teach them how to identify being fondled and how to avoid child molesters.

Now,
Knowing that McCain will probably lose this election, how is it being handled by the right wing? You guys are going nuts and making posts like this one, spreading venom and fear, and seeking to sow seeds of dissent. This won't help america.

So, (assuming)
when Obama wins, will you support him and will the GOP support him, and ask "what can we do to help?", or will the republicans just bitch and moan and do everything they can to circumvent solutions so they can blame the democrats when nothing can get accomplished (can you say filibuster?)

Bottom line is that the GOP and partisan posts like this are hurting America.

And yes, as much as I don't want McCain to win, I would support him as prez.

Kramer, all I can do at this point is to wait & watch for that "last-minute revelation" by the GOP which brings to the surface some outrageous claim against Obama or Biden or any of the other candidates. I think we all know it's coming. I only hope that we can see through it enough as a nation to make our decision the correct one - the one not driven by fear.

Kramer, all I can do at this point is to wait & watch for that "last-minute revelation" by the GOP which brings to the surface some outrageous claim against Obama or Biden or any of the other candidates. I think we all know it's coming. I only hope that we can see through it enough as a nation to make our decision the correct one - the one not driven by fear.

According to several journalists, including those from the BBC, the expected GOP voter fraud this year is more than 6 million votes (diebold is run by christian neocons), which more than obama's lead, probably.

I expect Obama to lose by fraud.

Damn,was i hearing right? McCains campaign is calling Obama's economic and health policies "socialism"?,His views are similar too Canada's and Europe's policies....and I didn't know i lived in a socialist country,lol, ..that's it I'm destroying my health card,lol.Hey McCain,your not even in office and you've already done a great job at offending other race's,religions,culture's and now other country's stable economy's,well done sir,well done.

Well, Kramer, if that happens, I truly hope that we unite to make make the '68 riots look like a frikken tea-party social.

In defense of Craig, Kramer, he HAS made specific allegations about Obama's vote concerning gun issues in another thread, & possibly more, but that's the only one that comes to mind.

I think that while Craig may be trying to stir up fears among us, he's only being successful in exposing his own. I find his single-minded approaches to be more typical of the far right, in spite of his claims of being a "middle-of-the-road-kinda guy."

I also find it kinda strange that he can say "I didn't intend any personal assault" & "please don't take any offense,"right on the heels of remarks like "Shame on you if you don't get the logic of this," or "Understanding these things, requires some degree of empathy or at least sympathy. It seems like that is not on your agenda currently. You aren't happy so, f*ck anyone else for whining, I guess? The state you are in, I guess you won't find that sympathy anytime soon. But your response, at it's worst, is simply appalling to me," or "I don't think you can get more insensitive than that. I don't really know what to say. Your lack of sympathy is shocking," or "Hatred over the war and economy (the supposed greater good) has trumped human decency, and a group dynamic is at play, allowing YOU and countless others, to FOLLOW the crowd, and jump on the bandwagon, without thoughtful consideration FIRST. It is a thug mentality and not very different from rioters looting and tearing a city apart." But I guess that's just his style, & I'm trying to get used to it.

I have tried my best to address the issues with compassion, understanding, & intelligent responses while speaking for ALL victims, while he is simply following a personal crusade against only one type of victim. Who is showing a lack of sympathy here, the one who would address all injustice, or the one who would only address one type over all others?

For the record, I have not, nor have I any intention to "jump on a band wagon of thug mentality" unless the election turns out to be a fraud. If & when that happens, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be right there tossing stuff & burning down the house with the best of them, because it's way past time for our leaders to start to fear the ppl instead of using & abusing their powers to their own nefarious ends. They'd best keep this one clean, unlike the one we had 8 years ago!

lol,i wasn't speaking retorically,did he actually say that or am i mis understanding his and Palin's offensive remarks?!I found this great article from a non bias,dual citizen, on a bit of our "socialism",take a read if your some how not informed properly.

http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/myt ... are-part-i

Oh yes, Steve. The word "socialism" has been bandied about quite a lot during this farce. Sorry if it offends you, & I truly hope you don't think all Americans support those erroneous views.

Great article, by the way!

That's just unbelievable,they can actually tell everyone at their rally's that Obama wants to treat everyone like human beings and use the "socialism" word.....and everyone boo's?!,clown shoes.
I can not wait too see Obama in office already,i'm sure i'm not the only one who's growing sick of these sleazy slander's that blindley offend everyone who has a functioning brain.
No one knows exactley how he'll do in office,but come on,how hard is it too do the opposite Bush and McCain?I can assure you the rest of the world will have faith in America with him there.
Don't worry i'm wise enough too know that not everyone shares the same view as the McCain/Palin/Moron campaign,every country has it's stupid citizens and it's smart citizens.But it is really sad and alarming to see so many people follow along confidently with there racism,non sense, and ignorant bullshit

Yeah, the actions of the GOP are very embarassing to me & many others, but why should it stop now, when we've been embarassing ourselves worldwide for the last 8 years?

You can believe that if I were in another country right now, I'd definitely downplay my role as an American citizen, & do my very best to show that our entire country is NOT exemplified by our noxious leaders.

Hey Philby, I hear ya bud.

I'm just shocked and awed that nearly half the voting population seem to have forgotten the last 8 years:

WAR based on complete lies and fabrications!
Firing judges who refuse to rule based on party instead of law!
Outing whistle-blowers as traitors.
Supporting / legalizing corporate monopolies and schemes to undercut the common man.
Socializing corporate risk and keeping the rewards capitalized.
Election fraud.
FEMA detention camps throughout the USA
Removing the national guard from Governors' control
Free speech zones
Mass arrests (with no charges / violations) at rallies
Patriot act!
FISA restructuring, with no accountability to those (AT&T GRR) who violate our civil rights.

The list goes on and on. McCain will change NONE of that.

He certainly hasn't made any gesture toward fixing any of those issues, has he? Nor has he addressed the others, such as our Gitmo & other more secret torture chambers, or the lack of helping out our own in the aftermath of Katrina...the list seems endless, but you can bet they'll keep baiting the idjits in our country with cries of "terrorist," or "abortion," or "gay marriage," or "liberal," or whatever they can to distract from the real problems that they have NO intention of acting on.

Blegh! I can't stand it anymore!

I need more bullets! There's deer in my yard!

I'm gonna hafta start thinking about nice sweet things for a bit to counter all of my anger & disgust.

Fortunately, it's STICKMASTERS' night! Wheeeeeeeeee!

You forgot to mention the two and half billion dollars a week that's being spent on............
or the Fifty million dollars that was supposdly sent oversea's and misterously disappeared and never thoroughly investigated.

Another great about the McCain/Palin scheme is they keep going on the "joe the plumber" thing,but fail to mention that he was investigated and found to be a fraud,who was just a plumber with no plans of expanding into his own compnay and such.
And McCain speaks of being anti excess and greed?why does he have 6 muti million dollar mansions and 4 luxury cars?,lol,get a cluue people!!

Craig,

Your anti-obama fearmongering is almost identical to the Hannity/O'Reilly/Limbaugh crazed world-is-going-to-end if he gets election reactionary politics.

No it isn't.

And O'Reilly does not belong on your list. Hannity and Limbaugh are extremists, O'Reilly is not. Don't confuse that to mean I like him personally, cause I am not a fan of his personality. But he is intelligent, pretty up to date on his information, and generally more fair than most other hosts of news-based programs.


But Obama...

The world will not end, nor will this country end, by the actions of one man.

Years ago, I read The Reverend Billy Graham's autobiography, and in his personal experience with MANY presidents, he suggested, that something happens to those who have occupied that office. I wish I could remember the quote, but I believe it is basically along the lines that the President gets struck with the importance of his role once in office. All the meetings with world leaders and being in effect, the most powerful person, potentially, on earth. They get serious. They really try, as best as they can understand it, to do what they believe is in the best interest of the nation. That doesn't mean they cannot make bad decisions, believing them to be in our best interest, when they are not. But it has comforted me to some degree, to believe that, if he is right, then however selfish and self-serving they may have been previously, the seriousness of the office, may help bring their better nature out.

As to "fear mongering" and Phil's "motivated by fear" lines, both of these are simply political fodder, mere rhetoric and not real arguments.


FEAR MONGERING:

I'm not "fear mongering" I am laying out what I believe about Obama based on the considerable facts I am aware of. Don't like the facts? Dispute them. But don't substitute political-speak for an intelligent argument.

Case in point:

"We can't afford four more years of George Bush"

I bet both of you happily repeat this line.

But it is not an "argument", and it is not based in facts or historical evidence. It's just a successful "slogan" that is just ridiculous and full of bullsh*t when challenged. But no one saying it wants it challenged, and the most logical and factual rebuttal of this won't change their minds. Cause they enjoy their hate... "don't lessen it's impact with facts please!"

I am a very logic oriented individual. I excel in "critical thinking", and do so far better than most. I am without a doubt, one of the least likely here to accept something at face value, without investigating it pretty thoroughly first, and looking for arguments on BOTH sides, to help determine the truth of it.

So I don't have any marching orders to fulfill, and I don't go around repeating someone else's mantra blindly.

I look for the truth, outside of all the bullsh*t various groups tend to build up around it.

I just want the truth, and I have no vested interest in "what" the truth is. I could care less what it turns out to be, as long as it is true. In other words, most people tend to look for evidence to prove what they already believe is true or what they want to believe is true. This is not how I operate. I'm in love with TRUTH itself. Not with any personal belief I may hold at the time, or with any political party I have association with.


MOTIVATED BY FEAR:

Is that an argument?

Sometimes being motivated by "fear" is healthy Phil. The real question, is whether the fears are rational or irrational.

My concerns about Obama are rational, not irrational. They are based in the facts I am aware of, not based on rumors or partisanship or anything else.

The facts speak quite clearly for themselves.

Any intelligent person, not blinded by party or politics or hatred would be concerned too.

But concerns are simply that. Concerns.

They must be factored in with everything else that is relevant in making the best choice possible.

Concerns alone, may not outweigh other relevant issues. Or they may. It really depends on how serious the nature of the concerns are when considered against the alternative candidates pluses and minuses.

But to NOT have serious concerns about Obama?

That can only come from a lack of knowledge of the available facts, or something skewing what would otherwise be a rational thought process.

It may very well be that after weighing the concerns seriously, Obama is still your guy.

But to NOT have serious concerns about him, either betrays a lack of research or partisan blindness.